B&M loopers not for me or are there better?

I live in Virginia and currently Kings Dominion and Busch Gardens Europe are the only parks I can afford to visit. But, they are 2 very good rollercoaster parks and give a wide variety of rollercoaster thrills between the 2 (though a little lacking in having a great wooden coaster).

I don't know, the 2 highly regarded B&M loopers here just don't thrill me the way it does other people. Don't get me wrong, I think they are good rollercoasters, but they don't do anything special for me during the ride. I'd give them both a 7.5 or 8 out of 10. Now, the thing is, Dominator and Alpengeist are 2 of the most highly regarded rides of their kind. By that, I'm not saying they are THE top rides, but people regard them just as high as any other B&M looper. They look great on video, have lots of signature features, but they just don't pack the IT factor where I think after the ride "OH man that was awesome" type thing.

I guess really big high speed high intensity rollercoasters are for me. My favorite rides are Volcano, Apollo's Chariot, Griffon, and my favorite Intimidator 305. All of those rides seem to have that IT factor I'm looking for. When someone says Alpengeist or Dominator are better than Volcano, I just don't see it. Volcano gives me that rush, intensity, and thrill I want while Dominator and Alpengeist are better designed rides with more features. I guess I prefer the former more when enjoying rollercoasters.

From what I read and see, Alpengeist and Dominator are pretty much just as good as any other inverted or floorless looper out there. So, are they just not for me (at the highest level of thrill that is) or are there better out there I haven't experienced. Looking at stuff like Medusa, Raptor, Montu, Kraken, and Kumba, they don't seem to provide all that much different than Dominator and Alpengeist. The rides are obviously completely different, but the features on video don't look like I'm missing out on too much different.

Also, I wish there was a great wooden rollercoaster here. Grizzly is probably the best one, and while its good, its a pretty typical wooden rollercoaster.

Alpengeist doesn't provide nearly as much intensity as many other B&M Inverts I have been on. A lot of the ones up here in the Jersey, Pennsylvania area are much more intense (Not Great Bear). Talon is probably the best invert in the world (depends on opinion) and Raptor is overrated (still awesome). B:TR is intense for the short time you are riding and worth it if the line is 30 min. or less. I think you are mixing up Fear with intensity. You seem to like the ones that make you fear for your life but do not have a tremendous amount of force (maybe with the exception of Volcano and I305 but I305 is intense) Griffon, it is scary but really has a dry layout IMO.

If you can ever make the trip up here, you should try Gadv and Hershey because they have great rides. Fahrenheit and El Toro are two of the best rides I have ever ridden and you will get to try a wooden coaster. I am pretty sure you can make the trip up here because I will be making the trip down to Virginia.

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meh, I'd rank Montu over Talon. Just my opinion, though.

I prefer Talon, mostly because of its INCREDIBLE smoothness. I have never experienced a ride that runs as smooth as Talon. While it's short, it's still a lot of fun. And if you want to ride a "real" woodie, don't go to El Toro. It's an incredible ride and will probably have that "it" factor you seek, but it's definitely not a true wooden roller coaster. If you want to go wayyyyy out of your way, you can hit up Waldameer Park in Erie, PA for the Ravine Flyer II. THAT is a real woodie.

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Naaaaaaahhhh.... Go to Boulder Dash in Lake Compounce!

^^So is Rolling Thunder @ Great Adventure. Exciting sh*t

Just be sure to put on a cup before riding it...

Alpengeist is one of my least favorite inverts. I find the smaller ones work a lot better intensity wise than the bigger ones. Batman The Ride is much more intense, and my personal favorite Raptor is just like a more elaborate Batman. And the Brits swear by Nemesis, so there definitely is something to the smaller = better formula for the inverts I think.

As for Dominator, I haven't been on it, but I think I'd have a similar experience to yours. The newer B&M loopers don't really do much for me as they're so 'cut and paste' with little actual progression. They also aren't great on the intensity front even if they have good pacing (Batman at SFNE). What I think you should try are some of the old standups. They get a lot of poop, but they have what I consider to be B&M's best twister layouts. They are much more twisted and intricate than the newer loopers, and have better pacing (plus the Gs are amplified because you're standing) so they're more intense. Chang is top 10 for me, and I enjoyed Mantis too (which is blasphemy to a lot of people, but I didn't think it was bad at all).

Grizzly I also think is extremely underrated.....my 5 or so night time rides on it in 2006 put it in my top 15 wood, among rides like Raven and Kennywood's Thunderbolt which are pretty well regarded. It might be typical as you put it in the day, but after it get's dark it's something special.

Wow, I keep forgetting to post here.

Anyway, you do need to get out more. It would be so much better if you could afford to go other places. Dorney is great with Talon, and while Hydra isn't world class IMO, it's still fun. Montu and Talon are both tied in my book, but I live A LOT closer to Talon than Montu, and it's a lot more accessible from a photo/video opportunity standpoint, and it consistently gets WAY shorter lines than Montu, so I have been ranking Talon higher.

Great Bear is quite intense - it's just the last eight seconds of the ride that wasn't greatly designed (just a very gradual S-Bend to the station). I always imagined that they could have stuck an extra helix, bunny hill and corkscrew at the end, but they would have had A REALLY hard time trying to stuff it in there. The supports for the first drop would have to be really crazy and wonky (the helix's supports would likely connect to the first drop supports to save footer space) to avoid having the park to change or remove Coal Cracker (log flume) and Sooperdooperlooper (schwarzkopf looper - first loop on the east coast) the two rides that it intertwines with.

^I didn't know you were even here... I think that Great Bear is the most out and back Invert because they just built right in the middle of the park. It was still fun but not as good as Talon or others.

Out of Great Bear, Great Adventure's B:TR, Talon, and Raptor I would rank Talon near the top. It also helps to know how the ride runs and work it for a summer. Talon is just far more fun then the others IMO. Raptor is a close second if you want an over-hyped invert.

As far as intensity, the only B&M invert that I remember really catching me by surprise was Dueling Dragons: Fire. And that same park has one helluva good normal sit-down too, in The Incredible Hulk. The launch puts it over the top IMO.

And having ridden "Anaconda" at Gold Reef City, which is basically exactly the same layout as a B&M only more intense, I can definitely agree with you that B&M doesn't make their rides intense enough, and they could use a little extra push.

Originally posted by Tetsu

Out of Great Bear, Great Adventure's B:TR, Talon, and Raptor I would rank Talon near the top. It also helps to know how the ride runs and work it for a summer. Talon is just far more fun then the others IMO. Raptor is a close second if you want an over-hyped invert.

Raptor is just so overhyped. The best 3 inverts in the US are Talon, Montu and Afterburner.

And Patriot, which is almost the same thing as Talon.

HEY!! CP is my home park, be nice[;)]

That being said, Raptor is pretty good but still overrated, I love Mantis, and Dominator came from Geauga Lake here so I've ridden that too. Dominator is just kinda slow, but a large part of the appeal was that it was mostly over a marshy lake. In fact, the whole ride was. I don't really know the placement there but I'm pretty sure its on dry land. Having all the low parts of the ride just a few feet above marshy swampness adds to the appeal IMO.


I think the only scary Invert is Deja Vu, and I have ridden alot of them. I say that because hanging face down from the front, the only thing I was hoping is that the restraints dont open lol. And when it drops it feels just like I imagined it would if they did. It's waaaay more intense then I thought it would be. As for cool B&M coasters...... Sorry dude lol. Tatsu, Mantis, Riddler's Revenge, Raging Bull, Hydra (just for the slow roll), and Diamondback are the few I'd mention. Goliath and Titan are amazing though. Giovannola makes great rides I wish parks would get more coasters from them.

Originally posted by Jonny Richey

And Patriot, which is almost the same thing as Talon.

I haven't ridden Patriot, yet I'm only about 2 hours away. [V]

Looks the same as Talon I admit. So go ride it!
I personally think that Afterburner is brutally underrated. It's forceful, looks cool and has ze batwing!

I enjoy reading all these opinions.

What I wonder is though, am I gonna like these rides like Talon and Great Bear based on what I enjoy? I seem to enjoy a ride that has that one to 3 big moments that thrill me more than I enjoy a ride with a nice layout and lots of elements.

Ypu'll like Talon then. Graet Bear I don't know.

Heres one thing I'm afraid of. I'm afraid besides an epic long coaster like Millenium Force, Voyage, and The Beast or a 120+ mph speed of Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka, I've experienced the most intensity rollercoasters in general have to offer. I've read plenty of people say I305 is the most intense rollercoaster they've ever experienced. Now, ITS INTENSE, but if thats the limit so far, damn, I wish there was more intense. If there are no turns more brutal than that, no Gs more brutal than that, no freefall experience better than Griffon (IMO, the drop is better than I305), no inverted launch better than Volcano, and many mega coaster experiences just like Apollo's Chariot, I'd be dissapointed if theres no better thrills than that. All the rollercoasters that thrill me seem to go at least 70 mph and have at least 2 gigantic "thats it!" elements.

I enjoy being at theme parks in general, its the most fun I ever have. I like walking around, seeing people happy, eating great food, and getting thrilled. But, if I've experienced the maximum amount of intensity and I know how it feels, then I'm a slightly let down.

I'd love though to ride an excellent wooden rollercoaster one day though. I'd like to see how going over 60 mph on a wooden feels and how intense the twist and turns are. Also, theres supposedly no airtime like Phoenix.

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Don't ride KK, it's terrible. If you want something like that go for TTD. And if you want true wooden coaster awesomeness, Boulder Dash is for you. It goes around 60 MPH, but the trees flying past make it seem much faster.

KK > TTD easily. Granted KK is closer to me then TTD but it feels so much better.

Phoenix has some great air and its a really great older ride. Knoebels has 2 really good wooden coasters, one steel one for kids which look pretty good, and one wooden one that has not been built for about 70 years so its taking a while. Not far from there is Hershey, it has Comet, Lightning Racer, and Wildcat which are all really good wooden rides. Fahrenheit is really good too but its normally got a line since its Intimin and those are very reliable. Hershey is also home to Great Bear (B&M invert) if you wanted to try that.

Then, about a hour east is Dorney home to Hydra and Talon. Both of those are B&Ms, one floor-less and one inverted respectively. You might like Possessed (Voodoo) which is very much like Volcano except its a shuttle.

Originally posted by Metalkat

Giovannola makes great rides I wish parks would get more coasters from them.

They dont exist any more. See here: http://www.rcdb.com/6908.htm

KK > TTD easily. Granted KK is closer to me then TTD but it feels so much better.

I barely noticed a difference. Yes, KK is a little more intense but TTD is much better themed and just so much cooler. It is fun having the path right there and the anticipation with the launch sounds. Either one is worth just as much as the other. I enjoyed both of them but it would never be worth a long trip JUST for that. Yet, they both came out with great rides so the parks themselves are worth trips out.

You might like Possessed (Voodoo) which is very much like Volcano except its a shuttle.

Possessed is okay. I haven't tried out Volcano yet but I'm pretty sure it is better than Possessed.

I used to live in VA and rode all those coasters except i305. I must say i thought the same. I wasnt all excited to move to new england for their coasters. I expected rides like superman to feel the same as rides like apollos. And expected boulder dash to be like grizzly or something. Trust me everyone is lying by saying volcano has the most intense invert launch, it was just as intense as wicked twisters to me. And apollos used to be my favorite coaster. and now it is one of my least favorite. And dominator is crap compared to medusa and kraken. And alpengeist is nooowhherree near as good as any other invert. Trust me. Even with i305.. you have experienced nothhiinnnggg. Go on el toro back row. Go on boulderdash back row. go on superman back row. CP is overated. Maverick is more intense than i305 it looks anyways. Get out of VA.

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meh, I think the restraints on TTD make it a far better/smoother ride. KK just doesn't give you the same sensation of freedom.