Behemoth - Canada's Wonderland 2008

It is possible... I do not see why it cant be.

Using elementary just now, I made a drop that stays over 0.3 gs and goes near 80*. The steeper you get the less weight you feel, but you can do it without ejector air, or any major floater air.

Hes saying its impossible for a real B&M drop that looks like the drop looks... of course you CAN do it with NL by making it spread out and boring.

I just made a realisticly shaped B&M drop with an edited version of the hsak, and at 80*, there is even floater in the front seat...I could only imagine what there is 16 rows back.

So make a train about that length.

Still say the drop isn't near 85*, probably more like 70 or 75 max.

Well, they promised us 85 degrees, I assume it is going to be the same.

You are really making me mad these days EE...Not everything that amusement parks say a ride will be will actually happen. This thing called endorsement tempts parks to enhance the image of their ride. The data will for sure change once the stats are discovered for sure. I agree with dcs though, I'm not so sure about the slope of it.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

Yeah, if they had 4 seat rows for the same distance, the capacity would go WAY up.

Now that's something they should have done.

[A7]

Originally posted by EElover2

Well, they promised us 85 degrees, I assume it is going to be the same.

I wonder, recreating the first drop. RCDB says it will be 85 degrees, and the top speed should be 77 mph. http://www.rcdb.com/id4005.htm

The blessed RCDB is never wrong.

Rcdb just gets the stats from the press release... lol. You're not solving any mysteries.

Sorry guys, but IMO this just looks boring. And, note the length of track after the MCB ... why even have it? The whole thing just looks 'bleh'. This coaster appears to have no real sudden turns, no real surprise to it, just up down up down turn up down up down up down mcb ... Seriously, they lose MAJOR points in the imagination department on this one IMO.

I agree with you on the MCB TJ. It is ridiculously short after the MCB compared to the rest of the ride. To me it seems the MCB should hav been an airtime hill or so before, and then maybe made the layout a bit more twisty from there, but with a few moments of airtime, rather than just the two helixes and back into the bunny hops. Needs something a little more original.

Still the ride will be awesome fun, even though it is incredibly simple. Plus its B&M, its bound to be good, even if the layout sucks a bit. B&M's just scream quality.

Every time i look at the trains though i think of a new problem. Thats the only major bad point to this ride i can think of. Seriously, if families want to ride together its going to cause some problems with kids not wanting to sit on their own etc etc etc. And if more than 2 people in a party are scared of going on the edges (trust me, it'll happen, it always does on oblivion, less confident people dont want to go on the edge as it feels so open) of the train it may even put people off riding if they cant ride where they want to. Instead of increasing rideability, they are decreasing it to a large number of potential riders in my opinion. It seems ridiculous to me when the traditional B&M trains were perfectly fine.

[TheArchitect]

^^ i totally agree.

They are throwing away four perfectly good seat. If the wanted to give riders better views then they should've increased the stadium seating- much like dive machines and Intamin Hypers.

If you can see over the heads of the riders in front then what else could block your view?

^^^ Increased stadium seating gives the back seat riders in the first car a better view, but totally farks the front seat riders in the car behind.

IMHO, these trains are the best thing B&M has done in ages. The standard 4-across seat trains SUCK. Great for the front row, but get a middle seat somewhere farther back in the train, and EVERY view, even to the front, is partially obscured.

The other problem I have with the standard trains is that they are too short. My biggest beef with most B&Ms (hypers, inverts, dive machines, whatever) is that the ride feels pretty much the same no matter where you sit. The view changes from seat to seat, but the forces don't so much.

With this LOOOOONG train on Behemoth, however, the ride in the last row is going to be VERY different from a ride in the front. That keeps it interesting, it gives you the chance to have several unique rides during the day, and it will feel more like a traditional coaster. BRAVO!

Someone suggested they put 4 seats in each row on this train. Won't happen. It would add TONS of weight. Remember, if you have 1000 pounds of weight and you hit 4 Gs, the structure is going to be dealing with 4000 pounds. When those numbers are closer to 20,000 pounds, then at 4 Gs you need to support 80,000 pounds. That will cause a need for re-engineering the entire ride, and probably using some new materials in the track and train chassis.

For all of you worried about the long training farking with the pacing, consider this: good pacing does not always mean non-stop speed throughout. There is something to be said for that long climb to the top of the first hill followed by hella speed on the drop. Sometimes, you can recreate that sense of anticipation with a bit of a hesitation somewhere. It's always fun on the Cyclone to hear people on that first big, slow turn after the first drop saying OMG OMG OMG!! I want off! I want off! Oh SH*T, here comes another one! AAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!! Yeah, the turn is slow, but it gives you a chance to catch your breath and worry about the rest of the ride. Some of those hills on Behemoth could do the same thing. Also, it can be cool in the front seat to rocket over a hill, then kinda hang over the edge before going down... or to be in the back seat and feel like you might not make it over the top as the car slows, only to be yanked over the top for some sweeeeet air.

My biggest complaint is the layout beyond the MCBR. If they have to do an e-stop or a block check, that helix is going to be REALLY slow. Even a trim is going to take the fire out of it. I'm not sure why someone would stick an element like that right after a brake without a nice hill to get the speed back up, but....

Maybe these new trains are designed to help reduce the b&m vibration that has been found on some of their most recent coasters. It looks like they are not as wide as the stock 4 across seating on any other b&m. And at the speeds this thing will reach, I can't blame them for searching for a solution on the vibration issue.

Originally posted by minicoopertx

My biggest complaint is the layout beyond the MCBR. If they have to do an e-stop or a block check, that helix is going to be REALLY slow. Even a trim is going to take the fire out of it. I'm not sure why someone would stick an element like that right after a brake without a nice hill to get the speed back up, but....

And how many times is the e-stop ever activated on a coaster? Regardless of what the layout is, any coaster that is stopped on the MCBR that usually passes through at a reasonable speed is going to feel pretty slow throughout the rest of the ride. So what if the first few seconds after leaving the MCBR after an e-stop, which happen almost NEVER, is slower than most coasters?

Someone earlier said that folks might be too scared to sit on the outside seats, ala Oblivion.

BIG DIFFERENCE: Oblivion (and other 4-or-more-across seaters) has outside seats that hang out past the edge of the track. That's far more intimidating than these edge seats.

Originally posted by minicoopertx

Someone earlier said that folks might be too scared to sit on the outside seats, ala Oblivion.

BIG DIFFERENCE: Oblivion (and other 4-or-more-across seaters) has outside seats that hang out past the edge of the track. That's far more intimidating than these edge seats.

Yeah, that definitely isn't true (the initial statement, not yours). No matter how intimidating any coaster is, there will be plenty of people in line eagerly waiting to ride it.

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Originally posted by minicoopertx

Someone earlier said that folks might be too scared to sit on the outside seats, ala Oblivion.

BIG DIFFERENCE: Oblivion (and other 4-or-more-across seaters) has outside seats that hang out past the edge of the track. That's far more intimidating than these edge seats.

Yeah, that definitely isn't true (the initial statement, not yours). No matter how intimidating any coaster is, there will be plenty of people in line eagerly waiting to ride it.

But it IS true. Yes, there will be plenty of people still wanting to ride, but it is still lowering the coasters rideability for families etc.

And i understand there is a difference between Oblivion/Griffon etc and this coaster because the seats will not be dangling over the edge of the track! I was just using Dive Machines as a comparison because the outer seats on them give a feeling of space. This feeling of more space around you is what frightens people from the outer seats. Surely these outer seats on Bohemoth will be way more isolated than a normal seat on a 4 across train, hence giving the rider a feeling of SPACE!

The outer seats on Bohemoth MAY give a similar feeling of space that the outer seats on dive machines do, but by using a different technique of isolation, rather than being dangled over the edge of the track. And with less seats in the middle than the dive machine, i think they are cutting rideabilty for those people who would prefer to ride in a group. Remember NOT EVERYONE riding the coaster will be a dare devil enthusiast....

Wonderland already has enough family rides. If they don't want to sit by themselves or something like that, then there are plenty of other rides for them.

Behemoth is finally a ride that caters directly towards the thrill seekers!

hmmm i guess your right if they have enough family thrill coasters.

Heck, Behemoth is going to be built on top of one!

Originally posted by jpecool

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Originally posted by minicoopertx

Someone earlier said that folks might be too scared to sit on the outside seats, ala Oblivion.

BIG DIFFERENCE: Oblivion (and other 4-or-more-across seaters) has outside seats that hang out past the edge of the track. That's far more intimidating than these edge seats.

Yeah, that definitely isn't true (the initial statement, not yours). No matter how intimidating any coaster is, there will be plenty of people in line eagerly waiting to ride it.

But it IS true. Yes, there will be plenty of people still wanting to ride, but it is still lowering the coasters rideability for families etc.

And i understand there is a difference between Oblivion/Griffon etc and this coaster because the seats will not be dangling over the edge of the track! I was just using Dive Machines as a comparison because the outer seats on them give a feeling of space. This feeling of more space around you is what frightens people from the outer seats. Surely these outer seats on Bohemoth will be way more isolated than a normal seat on a 4 across train, hence giving the rider a feeling of SPACE!

The outer seats on Bohemoth MAY give a similar feeling of space that the outer seats on dive machines do, but by using a different technique of isolation, rather than being dangled over the edge of the track. And with less seats in the middle than the dive machine, i think they are cutting rideabilty for those people who would prefer to ride in a group. Remember NOT EVERYONE riding the coaster will be a dare devil enthusiast....

It's a rollercoaster. It's not supposed to be a family ride. I really don't see your point.

Plus, if someone is "brave" enough to ride a coaster like this, then I don't think they'll stay away because of some minor seating arrangements. Most people who ride it won't even know what other kinds of B&M trains are out there anyways.

sounding to me as tho you are talking about the seating...i do think that is rather odd the way the train seating is set up....i havnt seen many roller coasters with two (front) inside.....and two (back) outside

EDIT: although it DOES perhaps give each and every rider a better view of whats in front of them....

Originally posted by minicoopertx

My biggest complaint is the layout beyond the MCBR. If they have to do an e-stop or a block check, that helix is going to be REALLY slow. Even a trim is going to take the fire out of it. I'm not sure why someone would stick an element like that right after a brake without a nice hill to get the speed back up, but....

Precisely my other problem with this ride. Even Titan (SFOT) has a nice winding drop before hitting the helix and pushing 4Gs. Having that helix right there is going to be problematic, and as far as killing the thrill ... geesh ... depending on what that MCB does when the train goes through will REALLY depend on how powerful (read:fun) that helix is.