Death Penalty?

Bah, I'm just gonna stay out of this one. Tcon has proven once again that he is not willing to listen to the other side of the argument, so all I'm gonna say is I strongly oppose killing someone for murder or any other crime, and statistics have shown that the cost of keeping a person in prison is no greater than the cost of executing them. Tcon, if you would like to say anything to me please do it through pm's, I'd hate for a quality debate such as this to be plagued with flaming or anyhing of the likes.

Originally posted by dac

It's the system we have and I still believe that our system is the best there is....that's why I will continue to support it.

Unfortunatly that system isnt universal so its not really a "system" but a states beliefs.


Does cost matter? Do you really ever see the other places your money goes? The only thing ALL of you care about Tax wise is whether or not they take too much and more importantly if you get your refund check. Other than that, most of you dont pay any attention to where it goes (like myself) because that takes way too much energy.

The whole cost issue is pointless. Unless you can tell me the percentage going towards that, dont talk about it.

Look e-man, first you say something brilliant like "Tcon has proven once again that he is not willing to listen to the other side of the argument" and then you end your rant with "Tcon, if you would like to say anything to me please do it through pm's"

Heh ... there is nothing like taking a cheap personal shot in the room and then ask me to go to a PM if I have a reply? Come on man, surely even your mind can see the lunacy in that. Perhaps you can't ... I say let's study you rather than the criminals for signs of being able to connect the dots.

At any rate, what I have proven (by default) is to clarify my point, 100% without a shadow of a doubt. Nothing more, nothing less. If you cannot see that, I cannot help you.

However, allow me to correct your basic addition skills based on your statement "statistics have shown that the cost of keeping a person in prison is no greater than the cost of executing them" (note, these are stats for the State of Texas alone ... ya know, the one with the highest execution rate so I figure they got it down):

Cost per Day per Offender: $61.58 (based on FY2002)
Source: http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/drowfacts.htm

Now for lethal injection, we are talking about three syringes filled with chemicals, no more than $25. For hanging, it is a rope. For electrocution, it is mere generator power since prisons have their own for this (states do not allow them to run off of city power for fear of nonsense from the bleeding hearts who oppose it), and of course for the firing squad it is 4 live bullets and one blank (rifles are provided by the Dept of Corrections).

Now, you wanna do the math again and tell us all how it is "cheaper" to keep these felons alive? Sorry pal, not even in the demented math-land of WWS does that add up.

Note to self: Have some facts in hand before making generalized comments like yours, it does not help your credibility.

Let me kill this then.

Why even have a death row? If you just keep them in the same prisons as the others then you dont have to pay for anyone to be on death row - do you?


I also doubt the chemicals cost that cheap. Ever seen what it costs the hospitals for a bottle of Tylenol or other cheap normal drugs? Its ridiculous. I can bet that the costs of the chemicals is more than 25 bucks per shot.


But really as I said, none of you know how much of your taxes goes to what so it doesnt matter.

Plus if you live in a state that doesnt support the DP it also matters not.

You are correct Real, I have done some further research and have found the exact costs of the chemicals: $426.78
Source: http://www.fcc.state.fl.us/fcc/reports/ ... pdmon.html
Note again, this is called being able to quote a source.

Now all other costs listed on this page are irrelevant, because they are in place, therefore each execution DOES NOT entail that price.

However, I do live in a state that supports the DP, and always have (New York, Texas, and Alabama). So, it matters to me ...

I will not except ANY sources, unless they are done in proper MLA format.

and the dogs are released and hunt me down. . .

Just a little follow-up to TC here, in that i honestly don't belive, unless you can prove to me otherwise, that it wouls cost more to execute a prisoner than to keep him alive and in prison.

My basis for this are reports that it costs between ?????????25000 and ?????????32000 per annum to keep prisoners in the UK. That's more than my dad earns per year, for a family of 5, on one lawbreaker.

Source - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 69,00.html

As to whether or not i agree with the death penalty, i have played ping pong in my head on this subject in discussions before, and i refer again to a quote from the above article.

"5,420 life-sentence prisoners, of whom 26 told they will die in jail"

Now what is the point in those 26 living? I don't fully understand the point. I also refer to some of the other sickoes that we currently have residing in our cushy ?????????25000pa. prisons, such as a couple who raped a 3 month old baby.

For the most part, i think that the death penalty is too extreme, and the fact that until quite recently the only thing for which you could be executed in this country was treason (i.e. murdering, or plotting to murder a member of the royal family, or destroying money!!) is quite rediculous. Also please don't think that the subject matter of the article(over-crowded prisons) is part of my point. However, i don't really want a 'rehabilitated ' baby-rapist walking around free on the streets, ever. Neither do i want a man who worked as a caretaker then preceded to kidnap, rape, and murder two 11 year olds to walk free. There are, in my opinion, limits to compassion of such crimes, and no matter what facts anyone throws at me now, that opinion will not change.

Also, for something closer to home for a lot of the people in this discussion, i refer you to the case of ted bundy. How many people is he said to have killed? How many times was he captured? I'm not fully clear on the numbers, but all i'm saying is that, in my opinion, some things are "beyond repair"

Think of it what you will. That's my two cents, from someone who's opinion on this doesn't matter because i don't reside in a place where the death penalty is enforced.

TJ, I think that when people talk about the cost of a death penalty inmate, they refer to all of the costs, including the pre-trial, trial, and appeal process. While I agree that the methods used by the state to execute someone are cheap, the appellate process is incredibly expensive. As we all know, a death penalty sentence equals an automatic appeal to not only the state supreme court but they also include the federal courts as well. Give the costs of those appeals as well as the attorney fees that the state shells out in each case, we're talking about thousands and thousands of dollars per case.

In an average case, an inmate may appeal to the appeals court and then the state supreme court. Once those courts rule, the case is over (usually, there are the rare cases that find themselves into federal court). Death penalty cases are much different and much more complex, when we talk about the appeal process...thus why many people sit on death row for years and years.

That being said, I support the appeals process because like I said before, no one wants to be wrong about the death penalty.

Just a couple of quick articles I found...

http://tinyurl.com/rftpw

A good article from Indiana and why they got rid of the death penalty...
http://tinyurl.com/s6k46

Originally posted by Coaster indavidual

I will not except ANY sources, unless they are done in proper MLA format.

and the dogs are released and hunt me down. . .

I only have APA ... my bad. [;)]

[coolbeans326]

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

^Oh so you want your taxes going toward warfare? Why dosnt Bush put $80 million into health care or charity, but no, the super power needs more power apparently.

I think our forign aid money should go towards all that stuff. Then once we are able to leave Iraq with out screwing them over (it wouldn't be fair just to leave them halfway through, at least not at this point, imo.) Then we can use that money on better things.

I am against it because I am Catholic. They should keep them in jail but like a really crappy place.

"Thou shalt not kill." (Exodus 20:13)

There are more important things than worrying about taxes. Killing someone is morally wrong, no matter what context it is in.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." Matthew 5:38

See? I can take out of context too ...

I think they should be kept in a really poop prison so they suffer but dont die so they can suffer for the rest of their lives.

Eye for eye, not a eye for an eye.

[hyyyper]

"eye for eye, and before you know it the world is blind"

dunno who said that

I think it was said by hyyyper trying to be funny

[hyyyper]

no, someguy once said it, someone famous

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

Eye for eye, not a eye for an eye.

That is correct ...
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... version=31

KK so thats sorted now.

Well, I see we have 2 very different sides here.

Im kinda on both sides, as I belive the death penalty is not only morally wrong, if the perpetrator murders someone, does that give you the right to murder them? 2 wrongs dont make a right. But on the other hand, criminals should be punished for what they did. Its pretty confusing i'd say, but for the most part, i think i'll stay against it.

there are worse things than death!!

Such as?

causing unescapable pain, not just a momentery stike.
break someones mind and cause a insanity beyond the pain barriers fo the phisical and make them live with it for the reas of there life in a dark, cold, wet cell.

let them rot, in there own tourcher

"Eye for an eye, and before you know it the world is blind" -Ghandi

This is a good statement, it has already been brought up, but we didnt bring up the person who said it, Ghandi.

Murder is a terrible crime and sin, but to kill a man who is a criminal is still murder. You could shoot a priest, a president, or a pedifile, either way, you commit murder and you do something wrong, it is imorale. I am stongly against the Death Penalty. If it is more exspensive to keep them in Jail, who cares? Its not like its going to change taxes all that much. In America, millions go into warfare and defenses, why not put one of those millions to something else, say have criminals imprisoned. All you need to do is buy 2 or 3 meals a day, a toilet, water, and a bed. Every body deserves a second chanve, no matter what they did, ultimately, it is not up to us to decide someones fate.