Death Penalty?

sorry to say this, but this topic is extremely retarded imo.

the LAW has stated that church AND state and NOT conflict each other's views onto each other. well, have of the quotes in this that are against the death penalty are that are quotes from the bible. ive seen like 10 quotes from the bible saying that it is wrong. you wont win an argument that way. say something like, keep em in jail cause they might be innocent, or keep em in jail so they can surpress to extreme bordem. anyways, end rant.

Anybody deserves a second chance, who knows what their future may lead to, they might make a cure for cancer or save someones life, give them a second chance, it is wrong to kill, even to kill a killer.

There ya go Ragan, bible free!

im christian, but you just cant win anything if you bring and have all of your material from the bible. you just cant "win" an argument or anything like that. it wont work unless your in some contury like vatican city or something. lol.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by ragan

sorry to say this, but this topic is extremely retarded imo.

the LAW has stated that church AND state and NOT conflict each other's views onto each other. well, have of the quotes in this that are against the death penalty are that are quotes from the bible. ive seen like 10 quotes from the bible saying that it is wrong. you wont win an argument that way. say something like, keep em in jail cause they might be innocent, or keep em in jail so they can surpress to extreme bordem. anyways, end rant.

laws can be changed, almost every developed conuntry and state has already banished the death sentence

^ like holland right? thats what my mom said

[coolbeans326]

Holland is a poor example of a country. It's to damn liberal, I don't know how you could feel safe. There has got to be an equal balance in order for things to work right, imo.

[jayman]

Originally posted by hyyyper

"eye for eye, and before you know it the world is blind"

dunno who said that

WHOAHHH>>> that's awesome!!!!
i cannot believe it was you who quoted that..very nice,

Originally posted by ragan

sorry to say this, but this topic is extremely retarded imo.

the LAW has stated that church AND state and NOT conflict each other's views onto each other. well, have of the quotes in this that are against the death penalty are that are quotes from the bible. ive seen like 10 quotes from the bible saying that it is wrong. you wont win an argument that way. say something like, keep em in jail cause they might be innocent, or keep em in jail so they can surpress to extreme bordem. anyways, end rant.

But the law that we know today was based off the Bible. Find it curious that religion is always brought up when laws like these are on the table? Because those laws were developed with Gods laws in mind.

Its not like we just have this "instinct" not to kill each other. Animals all over the world of the same species kill each other. Sex. Greed. Heirarchy. So its pointless to say that its just "wrong". Its not just "wrong". Its wrong because from the beginning of our time it was said that way. But again, that brings alot of Bible into the context. But I ask, where else did we get laws? Nature didnt give us those. So where?



Back on topic - Killing is too easy. Using what I said above, that happens in nature all the time. One animal of a species doesnt like another of the same species for whatever reason and they fight - normally to the death - if not they are lucky. Its just easy.

It takes compassion, love and forgivness to not kill someone. We are blessed with those qualities and they are hard to use but they tap into our hearts in ways most people have never experienced.

Its easy to just kill someone because they killed someone else. But it takes much more of a person to say "I give you a second chance." I really hope I am never in a situation to have to dig that deep to forgive someone for killing someone I know but I know in my heart its the right thing to do. If I were them, I would want that for me.

"Do unto those as you wish done unto yourself."

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by coolbeans326

Holland is a poor example of a country. It's to damn liberal, I don't know how you could feel safe. There has got to be an equal balance in order for things to work right, imo.

it's too liberal, and on the other hand much too bureacratic

you can do everything you want, just fill in the 700 pieces of paper and wait 7 months and then do the exact same thing over and over again, gouverment is a pain in the ass

you are correct real, we did base our laws off of the bible, but the laws that we have in place, that were based off the bible, say that you can not mix church and state. we do it all of the time, but "officially", you can not do that. its wierd. laws were based off the bible, but the laws say you can not mix church and state.
i am saying that you cant, legally, base your entire argument off of the bible. maybe if your judge is like a preist or something, but if you were to do everything by the books, you can not mix church and state.

Murder is horrible and as I say (Karma too) what comes around goes around, you kill someone and your going to die earlier than expected!

Theres nothing to it. All you talk about this torture? Hmmm if their dead they go to hell where much more fun punishments can take place. Life for life. If someone murdered a close friend you want the killer dead don't you! Yes.

Death! Death! Death!

Originally posted by Matt
Death! Death! Death!

Disturbing to say the least.

Originally posted by SixFlagsFiesta

What do you want them to do? Cut off there balls and say "Go back into the free world"

No, but I can think of a certain gene pool that would benefit from that kind of action ...

^Anyone from Netherlands whos name is hyyyper?

I figured Id just say it for you.

[Brtnboarder495]

Originally posted by TConwell

Originally posted by SixFlagsFiesta

What do you want them to do? Cut off there balls and say "Go back into the free world"

No, but I can think of a certain gene pool that would benefit from that kind of action ...

Lmao nicely put.

Ragan: Actually, no where is the law is it written that there must be separation of church and state. The only time the Constitution mentions religion is in the First Amendment. That reads, in part; "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." That basically means that the government cannot openly support one religion and shun another. That's why when a city hall decides to put up a nativity scene at Christmas they almost always include a menorah and some type of Ramadan display. "Separation of Church and State" is one of the most common misstatements about the Constitution.

Not that this is a legal discussion but I thought I would add my two cents after reading what you wrote.

@ Real and Brtn.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by Real

^Anyone from Netherlands whos name is hyyyper?

I figured Id just say it for you.

why not, IMO it's a good idea,

nah, just but the guys into lockup untill they die, then they'll suffer the most

Originally posted by dac

Ragan: Actually, no where is the law is it written that there must be separation of church and state. The only time the Constitution mentions religion is in the First Amendment. That reads, in part; "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." That basically means that the government cannot openly support one religion and shun another. That's why when a city hall decides to put up a nativity scene at Christmas they almost always include a menorah and some type of Ramadan display. "Separation of Church and State" is one of the most common misstatements about the Constitution.

Not that this is a legal discussion but I thought I would add my two cents after reading what you wrote.

ive read the constitution, but, if you were a member of congress, you couldnt say, "i believe we should make all abortions illegal because the bible said so." or, "the bible says thou shall not kill, so we shouldnt kill anyone, either through drugs, gun fight, war, bombs, etc."

[jayman]

Originally posted by gazag

causing unescapable pain, not just a momentery stike.
break someones mind and cause a insanity beyond the pain barriers fo the phisical and make them live with it for the reas of there life in a dark, cold, wet cell.

let them rot, in there own tourcher

does anyone remember what happened to dahmer.. sometimes criminals have a better solution than the law... i think the death penalty presents us with a conundrum, sorry , but i doubt if it "deters" criminals, people who commit murder think they're gonna get away with it when they do it.. but to be honest, when there is no doubt that someone who's commited cold blooded , premeditated murder, the death penalty is certainly a way to ensure that they don't do it again.. but with that said i'm not sure if there isn't other solutions...unfortunately the arguments in favor of the death penalty usually are based on a religious belief, and not common sense, which should tell even the most adamant atheist that killing another human is inherently wrong...when it's looked at from a common sense standpoint the death penalty seems at the same time both reasonable and insane at the same time.. it's very confusing, but that's why the death sentence is act of a government , not an individual, or even one group of individuals, but an abstract entity. (albeit one created by humans) ... it comes down to this.. wether it was something that humans developed in our social evolution or something that something devine like a god instilled on us, humans have free will, we do not act on instict alone , for the most part, so we can assume that murder, the ending of someone elses life to satisfy one's own desires
cannot ever be justified,. think about your life.. how much you like your favorite rollercoaster, that's unique to you, think about the family you love, and the freinds you have and the memories you carry in your head.... when someone is murdered all that is erased from the world we know..and that's just the murdered person.. there's other people too, to whom the victim meant something. something irreplaceable has been taken from this earth when a human dies. if that person was killed by someone out of selfishness(like say, trying to get away with a robbery) the penalty has been determined to be death.
while MOST of the argument in favor of the death penalty comes from the religious right, there IS a common sense argument in favor of a death penalty.
in a civilized culture i think that it's possible to have a sophisticated court system thaty can determine who has met the criteria that enables the death penalty. while not perfect, in theory, the death penalty is something i don't take up much argument against.

Nicly written.

I agree, the death penalty doesn't deter crime from happening. You'd think it would but it doesn't. Most crimes are crimes of passion and the pre-meditated crimes are usually commited by people with a criminal history.

I find it odd how many people point to religion for the reason why they believe the death penalty works. Sure the Bible says stuff about "Eye for an Eye" and some of that cryptic stuff from Revelations. But it also says "Thou Shall Not kill, Period" Personally I'm Catholic, and we tend to believe that any form of killing is wrong and thus it is wrong to sentance to the death penalty becuase you are going to kill them for killing another. Besides, I don't think it works at all. Why kill the guy and go through all that mess rather than just putting him in prison and just worry about keeping em locked up. It doesn't deter crime. Wrongfully convicted people can be put to death and if successful its just a foot note that 'hey someone screwed up" can't bring em back. oops. So why kill them?

Originally posted by hyyyper

Originally posted by Real

^Anyone from Netherlands whos name is hyyyper?

I figured Id just say it for you.

why not, IMO it's a good idea,

nah, just but the guys into lockup untill they die, then they'll suffer the most

They dont need to suffer a lot to learn a lesson, you could just imprison them until they have learned a lesson, but when they leave jail, put a satelite tracking device on them so you know where all criminals are at all times, just in case they do go bad.

[hyyyper]

^then it's already too late, when ppl kill someone, they should get at least 10 years, pll that most prolly will never do it again can go free, but there are always maniacs who should be shielded from the rest of the world

"Its not like we just have this "instinct" not to kill each other."

It's probably that whole 'Don't kill off your own species, have sex, survive and protect your kids' thing..

[coolbeans326]

Originally posted by hyyyper

^then it's already too late, when ppl kill someone, they should get at least 10 years, pll that most prolly will never do it again can go free, but there are always maniacs who should be shielded from the rest of the world

People who embessle money get stuck in jail for up to 20 years, now some one who murders some one only goes in for 10?
Now if its just involentary manslaughter, I'd understand, or something, but things like first degree murder, or cold blooded murders deserve between 30 on up to life in prision. People never really do change. They shouldn't have ever had to "learn their lesson." It's just common sense that you don't kill people.

Officer Brown, "Do you realized how many people you killed?"
Billy, "Yes, 3, and I'm sorry."
Officer Brown, "Well I'm glad you learned your lesson, I'm going to let you off with a warning."