El Toro versus The Voyage (Updated With POV Vid!!)

Originally posted by Nitro1118

Boulder Dash, my #1 wooden, is pretty much a plain out and back coaster

Are you serious??? Boulder Dash is ANYTHING but your standard out and back coaster, its soooo unique in so many different ways, its truly like no other ride. Boo on you! [flush]

Oh and Kyle... I feel ya dawg, Amen

Well, to counter-argue the length thing, just like how some people say that speed, height and smoothness do nothing for them, a length value can mean nothing to some people as well. The length of a coaster shouldn't play any role in determining if one coaster is better than the other.

For example, lets look at two different woodies, The Beast and Avalanche at Timber Falls. The Beast is the longest woodie in the world, yet it does absolutely nothing other than constantly get slowed down by trim brakes. Avalanche on the other hand is over 3 times shorter in length than The Beast, and yet it will kick its ass 6 ways from Sunday. If you omit smoothness, speed, and height from the deciding factors, then length should also be omitted. In the Mitch Hawker coaster poll for 2005 (http://www.ushsho.com/detailedwoodrolle ... ts2005.htm) Avalanche placed 9th, while Beast placed 50th. Just another thing to point out that length certainly does not mean greatness (as well as speed, height and smoothness).

I also don't understand why people would even bother comparing the trains and saying one is overall better than the other. It would really depend on the ride type. The Intamin trains look great, have great visibility and a very open air design. If you have a wonderfully smooth track like El Toro does, why wouldn't you want a train like that? Then on the other hand, if you have a more traditional track like Voyage that will have some bumps and a more overall shaky ride due to the construction technique, of course someone would want a nice padded train like a PTC.

The restraints are also very trivial when comparing the two. Whether you are stapled on either one, if there is airtime you will still feel it. With El Toro being so smooth, it has no need to have the extra little space that PTC trains have. Other than the short seat belts, it isn't often that you hear people complaining about the Intamin T-Bars (I know, El Toro's are slightly different, but very much the same). Think of it this way, if you get stapled on El Toro (keep in mind, smooth track), at least it won't feel like your legs and hips are going to get ripped off your torso from the shaking while navigating the track. Imagine being stapled for the entire 6442' of track that is Voyage (a woodie that is said by many to be almost too intense).

I also don't understand how anyone can come to the conclusion that El Toro is a one trick pony. If it is, then some of the best woodies are one trick ponies. Shivering Timbers; hill, hill, hill, hill, hill, hill etc etc helix. Avalanche; all hills and only left hand turns. Balder; little hills and turns. And no one (that I know of) calls Collosos a trick pony. It might be short, but it has an awesome first drop, two more air time filled turn, a swooping turnaround and a quick twister section. All one after the other at a furious pace.

In the end, I think it is pretty dumb to even try to begin to compare the two rides. It is almost like trying to compare a twister to an out and back woodie. Where would you begin and how would you judge the differences on them while being fair? So whether you rank one higher than the other is just personal preference, but there can be no denying that they both don't look like amazing woodies, each with its own special characteristics that sets it apart from the others.

It has been interesting watching the Holiday World and SFGAdv fanboys take shot at eachothers new coasters for the last half a year. Its too bad so much negativity has to be brought up, instead of just enjoying the rides equally with no biased opinions.

Like someone said on another website, Voyage looked like it would be the outright winner of the woodie wars for 2006, but much like a fighting bull, El Toro would come back with a killer punch.

And before anyone responds thinking that I singled them out from this thread, I didn't. These are just my thoughts after reading stuff for the last half a year on both of these new woodies. It feels nice getting this rant of my chest. [^]

I personally cannot wait to ride both of them, I for one know that I won't be thinking of the other while riding each one. I will just have a smile on my face and maybe some bugs if its at night.

And also, lets not forget about the other superb looking woodie that opened this year in North America, Kentucky Rumber. [:D]

Very well put and well explained summary of what each coaster offers and how there really isn't a good way to match them up. Despite the track being the same material, each different conpany woodie is a different animal in my book. Compare all you like, but a GCI is a GCI, an Intamin is and Intamin, a GG is a GG, etc.

Being a terrain fan, I am going to say The Voyage. The way it rages through the trees and dives into tunnels is just amazing

Originally posted by me

Really pdon, El-toro is much the same as Colossus at Heide Park. 3 massive air hills giving absolute mega ejector air time. The same lateral negative forces on the turn around, and a straight forward finish, excluding the air hill you was on about.
The Voyage is all about the return trip imo. Ducking through tunnels, 90 degree banking in loads of places. And the speed, just so fast. You may say that on paper, el-toro is quicker. Which by truth it is. But there is no intense terrain that makes the ride seem to go alot faster.
I have always preferred the PTC trains over any wooden coaster train. As of riding an Intamin woody train, and many PTC's i have to say that PTC owns Intamins. The sheer simplicity of the cars is outstanding. And the design is some what of a classic woody should be. Not these big fancy things.
There is my opinion, all though i am yet to ride Voyage, but riding a simlar coaster to El-Toro. Im still sticking with my opinion of Voyage being the best.
Just by looking at it i can see that it is probly one of the worlds best coasters throughout the wood+steel catogories. Period[:)]

And a fantastic review, El Toro seems to be alot of fun[:)].
EcG

Exactly what edge said, but in long form[:)].

I haven't ride anyof these ride, but for me EL Toro is not option above Voyage. As some poeple said, EL Torro is al about 1 thing and thats speed(which includes airtime). There might be some latterals, but the twister section realy sucks imo. Sure El Toro is smoother, but IMO its just a Normal intamin with wooden supports. Even the seats are the same!

Voyage offers something of everything at the same time. You just keep speeding up in the twister section at the end. Both coasters are cool, but hell no that El toro is better!

Except that after the turnaround EL Toro is nothing like Colossus.

Originally posted by chrisps

I think that both coasters look like fun and that everyone should do both wooden coasters this year.

Oh, thanks for the encouragement, I sure would say no if I could ride'em both tomorrow[stoning] J/k, but don't forget there are europeans here...
From what I've seen and heard, I think I'd prefer Voyage, even if they are really hard to compare like has been said. I've ridden Colossos which seems inferior to El Toro only because of the lacking HILL before the twister section, and I loved the ride, but Tonnerre de Zeus was still some notches better... And I think that's more of the ride feeling style voyage offers.
Although I agree, I definitely wouldn't want more than 5-6 rides a day with tonnerre, backseat. Dunno about voyage.

Originally posted by SFMM homie

Originally posted by Nitro1118

Boulder Dash, my #1 wooden, is pretty much a plain out and back coaster

Are you serious??? Boulder Dash is ANYTHING but your standard out and back coaster, its soooo unique in so many different ways, its truly like no other ride. Boo on you! [flush]

Oh and Kyle... I feel ya dawg, Amen

Except for the terrain, it is a plain out and back coaster.

[coolbeans326]

^ yes and no. It's not your ordinary out-n-back, sort of like the voyage, except it slightly uses its terrain and has wierd movements on the out portion, but the back portion is just like anything else. Really the only difference between BD and any other out-n-back is just that the out portion has turns, and other elements where as most wouldn't.

Originally posted by RCT-3-Crazy

I haven't ride anyof these ride, but for me EL Toro is not option above Voyage. As some poeple said, EL Torro is al about 1 thing and thats speed(which includes airtime). There might be some latterals, but the twister section realy sucks imo. Sure El Toro is smoother, but IMO its just a Normal intamin with wooden supports. Even the seats are the same!

*rolls eyes* Air time and speed are not the same thing at all. They each deliver a completely different sensation not similar at all. Air time is weightlessness and negative gravity while speed is more of a wind in your hair, fly by visuals, ect.

You know what Guy's there both great rides, done by two great company's. I'd just take each in there own design and savor that we have two great rides in one year and no duds.

This thread is almost remenicent of the old Magic Mountain versus Cedar Point. [sillyme]

I think the ultimate point that more than a few members have made is that we are lucky to have two amazing wooden coasters open this year that both really redefine the potential for the wooden design style. While my opinion was stated in the first post of this thread, I still maintain that if El Toro is my #1 wooden coaster, then The Voyage is by far my #2.

Originally posted by dcs221

You sound very biased in many of your statements Real. I know it's your opinion and I respect that, but how can you have such a relatively negative opinion of El Toro, when one of your favorite rides is Shivering Timbers? I just think your opinion on that ride is contradictory to a few of your recent comments.

I do really agree with you when you said that Voyage and El Toro are two very different experiences despite their outward similarities. I think I'd have a hard time ranking them if I had ridden both. Both completely amaze me as the designer/manufacturer really did what they could to make them legitimately world class rides, not just something the public will undoubtedly like, but still nothing special.

This year is really awesome for coasters!

I can say what I did because Shivering Timbers lasts more than 50 seconds and it focuses on just one thing...airtime. It doesnt try to be insanely fast, or pull the most airtime, or try to be two things at once (all things El Toro tries to be).


For what its trying to be, 50 seconds is something of a rip off IMO. If its going to be 50 seconds long, it better do alot of one thing and do it well.

ET would have been better off ripping off ST and just being a pure Out and back with a helix at the end. THAT would have been sweet.

I thought I already said that? lol


EDIT For the record, I am not a big fan of the Intamin T-Bars anymore. They are decent restraints that work well but not my most favourite trains.

I think every Brits will say 'El Toro and They Voyage are complete shite compared with the Grand National...now come on old chap, lets go for a spot of tea and scones, jolly good show what what'

Originally posted by Edge

I think every Brits will say 'El Toro and They Voyage are complete shite compared with the Grand National...now come on old chap, lets go for a spot of tea and scones, jolly good show what what'

[confused]

[dunno]

Err, what what?

Originally posted by Real

Originally posted by dcs221

You sound very biased in many of your statements Real. I know it's your opinion and I respect that, but how can you have such a relatively negative opinion of El Toro, when one of your favorite rides is Shivering Timbers? I just think your opinion on that ride is contradictory to a few of your recent comments.

I do really agree with you when you said that Voyage and El Toro are two very different experiences despite their outward similarities. I think I'd have a hard time ranking them if I had ridden both. Both completely amaze me as the designer/manufacturer really did what they could to make them legitimately world class rides, not just something the public will undoubtedly like, but still nothing special.

This year is really awesome for coasters!

I can say what I did because Shivering Timbers lasts more than 50 seconds and it focuses on just one thing...airtime. It doesnt try to be insanely fast, or pull the most airtime, or try to be two things at once (all things El Toro tries to be).


For what its trying to be, 50 seconds is something of a rip off IMO. If its going to be 50 seconds long, it better do alot of one thing and do it well.

ET would have been better off ripping off ST and just being a pure Out and back with a helix at the end. THAT would have been sweet.

I thought I already said that? lol


EDIT For the record, I am not a big fan of the Intamin T-Bars anymore. They are decent restraints that work well but not my most favourite trains.

Toro has got more intense and sustained airtime than ST, and while it has less spots, it is higher quality airtime. Toro is a very, VERY fast coaster, and has very intense G's in pullouts and turnaround. It also has a very good twister section that slams you into the sides of the trains...

It doesn't try to be more than an airtime coaster...it IS more than an airtime coaster.

[coolbeans326]

Originally posted by Real

Originally posted by dcs221

You sound very biased in many of your statements Real. I know it's your opinion and I respect that, but how can you have such a relatively negative opinion of El Toro, when one of your favorite rides is Shivering Timbers? I just think your opinion on that ride is contradictory to a few of your recent comments.

I do really agree with you when you said that Voyage and El Toro are two very different experiences despite their outward similarities. I think I'd have a hard time ranking them if I had ridden both. Both completely amaze me as the designer/manufacturer really did what they could to make them legitimately world class rides, not just something the public will undoubtedly like, but still nothing special.

This year is really awesome for coasters!

I can say what I did because Shivering Timbers lasts more than 50 seconds and it focuses on just one thing...airtime. It doesnt try to be insanely fast, or pull the most airtime, or try to be two things at once (all things El Toro tries to be).


For what its trying to be, 50 seconds is something of a rip off IMO. If its going to be 50 seconds long, it better do alot of one thing and do it well.

ET would have been better off ripping off ST and just being a pure Out and back with a helix at the end. THAT would have been sweet.

I thought I already said that? lol


EDIT For the record, I am not a big fan of the Intamin T-Bars anymore. They are decent restraints that work well but not my most favourite trains.

you'll probably change your mind once you ride it. Grant it, you may not like it better then voyage, but I think you'll like it alot better than however you have discribed it.[;)]

[jayman]

i see it like this.. when both were announced i checked them out, kept tabs o how they were coming along ... when i saw the stats for voyage i said to my self " holy crap, that's awesome.. pure wood coaster and sh*loads of it" when i saw el toro i said... ", that drop looks awesome, but there has to be a catch..why bother to build it out of wood?" the i realised that it's the only way it can compete.. stripped down it'd just be a small hyper with funkily shaped track with some awesome airtime. it's unfathomable that i would even consider it over voyage.. if i could afford to go to both i'd still skip el toro and go to kennywood, or knoebels or hershey park , or new york and ride the cyclone.. sure i'd like to ride it.. it looks awesome.. but i'm not even considering going out my way for it. but different strokes for different folks.... it looks to me that voyage was built with a traditional rollercoaster experience in mind, only with more of the same built peice by peice right where it stands. .. .. el toro is trying to hard to be "the best of both worlds, the smoothness (and therefore tamer seeming) of steel coasters, and the look of wood, all for one low price, we build it here.. you erect it there.."
voyage = big ass wooden rollercoaster .. did we mention its fast.. el toro=pretty fast coaster , oh , but did we mention that it's wood?.
my two cents on why i've already made up my mind. it's not a matter of which is "better" its a matter of tastes... there's even people out there that think deja vu is awesome.

I think Deja Vu is awesome...

El Toro is anything but tame...it's one of the most intense rides I've ever ridden, with amazingly strong airtime (equal to or exceeding that of SROS SFNE), many spots of positive g's that make one fight to stay upright especially in the back row, medium lats and some spots where the lats transition from left to right very quickly during high speeds, which is very thrilling, etc. El Toro is absolutely insane.

[jayman]

^my point.. reinforced. some people like an instant rush, that ends as soon as it started .. no problem... that's valid.. i'm one of those who wants several very intense moments that lasts a few minutes, rather than one or two "very very very very' intense moments and screeching to a halt.. i'll spend the whole day at knott's riding ghost rider, even if it meant an hour wait each time, and skip xcellerator even if the line was only 20 minutes. id choose hang gliding over bungee jumping.. etc.

Jayman, what do you have against steel coasters? I don't think I could go on a coaster and not at least enjoy it, even the painful ones are still usually fun in the end. A coaster's a coaster to me, whether it's wood, steel, 50 seconds long, whatever. I didn't even mind the hour and a half wait for Dragster which is less than 20 seconds. I still don't think that El Toro looks better than Voyage, but it does look really amazing.

No jayman, your point is not reinforced. El Toro's intensity is distributed throughout the entire ride. It leaves out the boring parts of other rides, yet still has a decently long track which really is amazing. I'd guess the average coaster after the lift is around a minute long... El Toro's is apparently 50 seconds, so that 10 seconds you're missing out on (boring turnarounds, slow pacing through elements, etc. is made up for by pacing and intensity throughout. Please, ride the thing before you say it's only intense in one or two spots...this is nothing like Xcelerator, TTD, or KK, it's a complete ride experience, without the fluff that most other rides have.

[jayman]

AGAINST???????????? not against, no no .. that's not it.. i think el toro does look like a great ride, no doubt, it just doesn't suit my tastes..
i really like steel rollercoasters , i got to ride arrow's first corkscrew in 1976 because we lived 2 miles from knott's, and in 1978, as soon as my dad found out that monmtezoomas was opening we went.. it was a big deal in those days. , i went and waited hours and hours to ride goliath when it was brand new, same goes for batman, viper riddler's revenge, even flashback, which i enjoy.i waited almost 6 hours to ride x two weeks after it opened and it was worth it so much i drove back the next week and used my twicket to do it again... i went and rode these as soon as they were buiilt.they always deliver, and i always went opening season, and have loved them ... but.....wooden coasters are very special to me. they are'nt themed like the matterhorn, they dont go upside down like scream,
a wooden coaster to me is "pure " coaster, as intended. i really like steel coasters, alot, but even something as big and awesome as riddlers revenge seems like just a "roller coaster ride" whereas collossus is a "rollercoaster"
i don't have anything against steel rollecoasters.. it's just that i lik wooden coasters MORE... el toro comes off as a posuer, a steel coaster in woodies clothing.. voyage comes off like A BIG ASS WOODEN ROLLERCOASTER HOLY CRAP LOOK AT THAT THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and i like fluff..

Originally posted by jayman

^my point.. reinforced. some people like an instant rush, that ends as soon as it started .. no problem... that's valid.. i'm one of those who wants several very intense moments that lasts a few minutes, rather than one or two "very very very very' intense moments and screeching to a halt.. i'll spend the whole day at knott's riding ghost rider, even if it meant an hour wait each time, and skip xcellerator even if the line was only 20 minutes. id choose hang gliding over bungee jumping.. etc.

One or 2 moments then screeching to a halt? EVERY element on Toro is extremely thrilling and intense....I count 9 elements that are very intense and extremely thrilling on the ride. It is 4,400ft, which makes it one of the 15 longest wooden coasters in the country...it isn't a short ride. Especially most top 10 coasters are only 10-20 seconds longer, and far less intense and thrilling.

Ride the coaster before you judge, especially considering this is far from a one trick pony and "short".

^ Tsk Tsk, Length....? That doesent matter at ALL for how LONG a coaster is...Kingda Ka is over 3000 feet long and its like 20 seconds...

Anyways, I think ElToro looks fun...It shouldve been an intamin hyper though, its like Jayman said, "a steelie in wood costume". If anyone thinks the Voyage is inferior to El Toro you are sooo doped up youve got no idea....