G forces between front and back seats

Does any body know what the difference in geforce would be between
the front of an inverted coaster and the back. The reason why I ask is because I am making a new coaster in NL and going through the Cobra the positive forces are ok, but if I ride it in the front the forces go into the sixes (the back reads 3.2) .Should there be such a big difference.

[coolbeans326]

usually entering an element its higher in the front because it has the most speed, when exiting an element (its ususally the back that gets higher forces because it fastest when exiting the element.

Think of it like this. Your in a train that is accelerating at 10 m/s. When the front of the train crosses the bump it is going at 50 m/s. When the back of the train also hits that bump, due to the train accelerating, you will hit the bump at a faster speed and therefore increasing the force. Its the same with a rollercoaster, imagine accelerating down the first drop.

I dont know if there is a much better way to explain, then the back is travelling at a higher speed than the front was when it passed the same point

Depends on the situation.

For a Cobra Roll, when you enter it the front hits it with more speed than the back. As the front starts up the cobra, its causing the train to slow down so the back will pull less G's entering it. Through the middle of the cobra the variation wont be as large since the speed doesnt change that much.

Now as the train exits over the top, the front isnt going very fast. But as the front of the train starts down to the exit, its pulling the back of the train with it - gathering speed. So naturally the back of the train, going faster, will pull more G's upon the exit just like the Front of the train pulled more g's on the entrance.


A tip that most people dont do - B&M does not make their cobra rolls with first half equal to the last half. The second inversion of the cobra roll is always lower because of the decrease in speed.

Heres some shots:
http://www.rcdb.com/ig764.htm?picture=6
Good pictures below
http://www.rcdb.com/ig2169.htm?picture=18
http://www.rcdb.com/ig2528.htm?picture=41


Even if you dont do it B&M style, its smart because it means both sides should feel equal.

Although they do lower the exit of the cobra, it still isn't by much. You can't really feel it on the ride. Or, at least I don't.

Thats the idea. They lower it to where the feeling on both parts is the same. Otherwise, with both sides at the same height, going through the exit would feel way slower.

Well, if it's lowered or not, the cobra roll is still an awesome element. My favorite after the 0-g.

This has already been said, but, The entrance to a loop will have strongest g's in the front and weakest in the back, and vice versa on upon exit. Therefore the middle car has the least average force.

Im also a fan of the Cobra roll. Not sure where I would place it though.

The Zero G is only good on certain rides that actually give Zero G's - like Talon or Hydra which are the closest to zero g Ive ever ridden. Raptors is no where close but closer than BTR's.

Then there is the Immelman which is like the very definition of "graceful".


If I had to choose anything Id maybe say the wingover/flatspin. I just love the motion all together.

It didn't feel like I was being flipped over on the 0-g on Silver Bullet. It was very smooth and well done. The newer 0-g's look different from the older ones.

New 0-g: http://www.rcdb.com/ig2528.htm?picture=14
Old one: http://www.rcdb.com/ig760.htm?picture=1

Its all based on the parabola which is based on the speed.

However, I think they have moved to a flatter parabola which gives you more airtime and a little less whip. Silver Bullet apparently is a heavenly Zero-G in terms of actual weightlessness. Talon and Hydra's Zero G are similar in that you still get swept around but you dont take it at the same speed as older B&M's which take elements a bit faster.

However Ive never liked my Zero G's to whip me around so fast that I never move out of my seat. You might as well not even heartline it or throw it on a parabola because you defeat the purpose of calling it a "Zero G' which is why I call those "Speed Rolls".


I still love the element reguardless of what it does. I just find Hydra's and Talon's to be exquisite in design and execution. You just float for what seems like forever. Even in the back seat on Hydras you get a ton of no-lateral airtime which is odd since most Zero G's in the back seat give you a dose of lats and not much airtime.

Well, Real, I will take note of your "Speed Roll" term. Would it be worth it for me to take a trip out to Dorney for Hydra? From what I've heard people say, it's an awesome B&M. Of course, pretty much all of them are awesome.

I loved Hydra. I loved Talon. I heard they were both weak. I think they are not weak at all.

They are just incredibly graceful with good forces. Hydra is just a standout. The Jojo is an incredibly odd feeling and the rest of the ride has FAST transitions, especially for a late model B&M. It pulls more g's than you think but being so small, its no suprise.

Theres also airtime on the drop, zero g and the hill next to the station. Back seat gets quite a pop of it.

Speaking of which, if you do go, try to notice that the left/right turn that goes by the station - it should give laterals. No matter where I sat, inside or outside seat, when you turn right it feels underbanked. Its not bad at all and Id say it gives uniquness and character but you get this definate lateral shift to the left from the G's. Its strange for a B&M but I thought it was kind of cool. Its almost like it was engineered to do that.

Well, Hydra is certainly different from any of the early and later model B&M's. Will Dorney be open in October? I have a week off of school then.

Or would it be risky going there because weather can get bad in Oct. I know that Dorney is in PA. Is it close to any other parks?

http://www.dorneypark.com/public/trip_p ... /index.cfm

It's going to be closed for most of my break. But, on a Friday I might be able to go. What's it like there on weekends?

Edit: Stupid me, I didn't realize that Hydra has no vertical loop.

[Brtnboarder495]

A good tip for visiting parks in general, avoid visiting on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays if you can.

Yes, but those are the only days it is open in Oct.

Originally posted by Woodie Man


Or would it be risky going there because weather can get bad in Oct. I know that Dorney is in PA. Is it close to any other parks?

Well Hershey isn't too far away, and you also have Dutch Wonderland home of the original CCI.

It should be open in October they have those Halloween things like almost every other park now.

I was there on a Friday and it was not packed at all. However, thats because it was HOT and the waterpark was open. Seriously, while the waterpark was open lines were walkon or under 15 minutes for all rides.

Once the thing closed for the night, everyone flooded into the park of which 25% of them stayed to ride and lines went up about 15 minutes.

Dorney isnt a large park and draws a medium sized crowd, lines shouldnt be too bad. Ive never heard any horror stories about lines there.

Well, if thats true then I shouldn't have to wait too long. Even if the wait is 30 minutes for each coaster, thats only like 2 hours of waiting. There is a lot you can get in if the waits aren't huge.

15 minutes is nothing. People here wait 45 minutes for an SLC (SFEG). I could easily deal with waits. With a 15 minute wait, I could ride Hydra almost 4 times in an hour. It would be great.

Yea, Im so used to Cedar Points lines that when I hear people complaining about lines under 45 minutes I usually freak out on them.

I mean, when any line is under 30 minutes Im ELATED.

If I had to choose anything Id maybe say the wingover/flatspin. I just love the motion all together.

You need to try the 1st and last element on Nemesis. [:D] The first is graceful, yet quick, it flips you over so fast, yet comfortably, and with a great feeling. The last is buried in the ground, and most do not notice it is there until travelling through it. It is taken very fast, and is over very quick, but is cray because of its position and the speed at which you take it. It doesnt have the same flick at the top though.

I'm sure I do need to try those elements on Nemmy. I've been wanting to ride it for a while now. My only problem is that it costs a lot of money to go to England to ride it.

In simplar terms. The front part of the train will pull more g's entering an iversion the back will pull more exiting one. the back will also pull more g's entering a drop. As for a downward helix the back of the train will pull more. An upward helix would be balanced i think im not so sure couldnt work it out