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Board index ‹ Off Topic Board ‹ Off Topic Discussion ‹ Jehova Witnesses
Bullshit. You pass laws based on faith, and that makes you an asshole. If you're getting a christian education degree or whatever you're a critical part of organization, and you're an asshole through and through.
Crusades.
And then the ten commandments and other things were written like that men can't have long hair and that we can't eat anything that doesn't have scales that comes from the seafloor. And that passage you used to justify slavery, etc.
Yes you're above the organized fraction. I hear this all the time. You're better than everyone and a nicer person. I should join you in your ability to be better than everyone and nicer while you vote in public officials that propagate the agenda you supposed aren't a part of. love.
No the Bible is used to justify all of those and still is today. Besides the three abrahamic religions are the only ones that invented the idea of a war that is for god. All other religions are baffled by this context, so it's the evil that is inherent within the whole abrahamic religious spectrum that is at fault, not a select few politicians. Nice try. No other major religion has this principle. Besides, you're in a school with a Christian education program. How can anyone actually know you haven't been taught fabricated history?
Except for the whole being an oppressive asshole thing.
Yes be responsible for genocide, suffering, etc, (I'm not repeating it) and then turn the tables around and act like the victim. Great job love. I'm so sorry I never thought that people solely responsible for everything were in fact not the victims in the situation. My bad.
No I'm fairly certain you just killed off the people who didn't want to hear it (Africa, Native Americans, etc). Big difference.
Yeah keep propagating the lies to make sure your select group is better while demonizing the rest of the outsiders.
Us and them, us and them.
If you fund any of those organizations then you're part of the problem. If he is in one of those programs then chances are extremely that he has.
It's like the morons that refuse to get their children vaccinated. They're all assholes who kill babies, no questions asked. None of them are special, unique, or are above that because they made an attempt at an inspiring speech or have a goal. They're just a baby killer.
I have yet to meet someone that doesn't believe in evolution or geologic time that can actually explain what they're. It's ignorance across the board perpetuated and encouraged by the hambeasts that teach that hateful christian poop.
I interpret the Bible to say that trees are satanistic. You cannot argue that with me since it's part of my faith. I will now go protest a biology department and demand that that idea be put into botany textbooks everywhere (thanks Texas!). Nevermind the years of work that says otherwise. I will now go get a christian education degree and teach at private schools and spread the word of christ that trees are evil to others. I am a winner.
Exactly correct. The twisted remnants of which, have been blown out of all proportions.
I often think that religion is now on it's way to dying and the human race finally leaving it behind, in the past, where it should be. But the more and more I think about it, as long as there are gullible people in the world, religion/cults will exist. Which makes me actually quite sad.
Agreed. Religion has done nothing to help anything in our world, ever. A relationship with Christ is the key -- not the "ceremonies" which spend time vaulting this, that, or the other and more or less spend time exalting man.
Jehova Witnesses
cjd: I respect your opinion, but I disagree with your claim about homosexuality. Thank you for your concern, but I pretty much know my stuff when it comes to Christianity. And I'm well aware that according to the Bible, anyone can repent against their sins. But it's not a choice to be a homosexual, and a gay person can't "change their ways" and become straight. That being said, still on the subject of homosexuality, the Bible is basically saying that they should repent against something that's impossible to change. I'm glad that you're strong in your faith, but I'd just rather not be a part of a religion that stands against something I support.
^Fair enough. Just making sure.
Glad to hear you are comfortable with your bigotry on the basis of you reading it in an ancient book.
Boulder Dash was the only good roller coaster.
"or if you're when the hydraulic fluid was dumped out of the motor is goes 200ft up the tower and is like "LOL nope"" - CKMWM 2016
"or if you're when the hydraulic fluid was dumped out of the motor is goes 200ft up the tower and is like "LOL nope"" - CKMWM 2016
To add some fuel to the fire, there are numerous ways people follow Christianity. Some are blatantly hypocritical, such as the fundies and pretty much a good majority (if not most or all) of the U.S.'s conservative movement. But are there any who take a stand for the rights of people that the religion generally dislikes?
Cjd's clarifications on the large range of behaviors/beliefs that run in the Christian belief system (specifically his clarifications on the Christians who actually follow some principles) are valid and more or less run consistent with nearly all Christians that I actually know. However, there's still a few holes in what these people believe and in the belief system itself. I don't know of any moderate/liberal Christian with a good understanding of sex-related issues (particularly orientation, which most seem to think that its something that can be magically "fixed" by simply accepting Christ) but this isn't the only issue. I can't imagine many, if any Christians would speak out against government endorsement of their religion, such as "In God we trust" on our money, "One nation under God" in the pledge, and the National Day of Prayer. I may have heard one or two speak against the National Day of Prayer as something that turns prayer into a public thing, against what Jesus taught of not being a showoff with one's prayer but to be humble, but that's very rare to be honest.
Then there's the core issues of the belief system itself. Even if Jesus specifically preached for the rights of those oppressed under what the institution of Christianity became (he preached generally for them, I'll have to give credit for that), the overall message of Christianity is still inherently oppressive. No amount of "helping the spiritually poor" will take away the whole situation that the omnipotent, omnibenevolent God himself created in the first place. The excuse of a good afterlife is what makes genocides not such a big deal; aka "God will sort them out." Christians can be against genocides and injustice all they want, they and their god can be angry at them, but in the end most Christians do believe in that phrase; the idea that in the end, no matter what happens, God will bring justice. This is simply unacceptable because of the sheer insignificance it places in this life; in the only certain life we will have, and puts it in an afterlife that no one can be sure of. (This is when they fall back onto faith itself, which I will address in a moment.) Of course, there's also the threat of going to Hell which is masked as a choice that the sinner makes, rather than a punishment or a flaw in the system that God set up.
Christianity (in any form, the "good" kind or the bad) can make up as many explanations as my video card can draw polygons to the problem of evil in the existence of an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god. Or they may not take any explanations and simply stick to faith itself; faith that God had/has the perfect plan. They may say that God is beyond human logic or that he does not have to answer all of humanity's questions. (Basically, the jumbled bible is enough if you interpret it "sincerely".) Or they may even say that God had to set up the problem of evil so that there would be a standard for "his love"; for a few who believe him to be able to "feel that love" (which they would not be able to without a standard to compare it to; evil itself) at the expense of everyone else, and of course, that divine intervention would mean that humanity would depend on him far too much. (The latter of which is actually somewhat of a valid point.) Yet another explanation is free will itself; that without evil there would be no true free will.
But in the end, the truth is that a god who is omnipotent and omnibenevolent could have created the world in a way where that "love", as he calls it, would work out without the problem of evil itself; where his message would be understood by all, and where understanding that message would not be an issue to free will. (He is, after all, omnipotent and would be able to work around through such logic.) This god is what so many people depend on and hang onto. They can only think of that sacrifice of Jesus and try to glorify God in all they do, but never think beyond that; they don't have a standard for God (which is why they just put their faith in him instead of questioning) but only have God's standard for them.
I hope this made sense enough, at least to those with a fair understanding of the Christian faith. Offensive or not, these are questions that, IMO, everyone who recognizes the faith must answer. I guess some already have answers to that, but each person has a different standard for those answers.
And that is the better way to have this discussion; by digging deep into the belief system itself; into theodicies and theology, rather than just scratching the surface with simple logic and arguments (along with simply calling people who don't understand sexual orientation as bigots).
Cjd's clarifications on the large range of behaviors/beliefs that run in the Christian belief system (specifically his clarifications on the Christians who actually follow some principles) are valid and more or less run consistent with nearly all Christians that I actually know. However, there's still a few holes in what these people believe and in the belief system itself. I don't know of any moderate/liberal Christian with a good understanding of sex-related issues (particularly orientation, which most seem to think that its something that can be magically "fixed" by simply accepting Christ) but this isn't the only issue. I can't imagine many, if any Christians would speak out against government endorsement of their religion, such as "In God we trust" on our money, "One nation under God" in the pledge, and the National Day of Prayer. I may have heard one or two speak against the National Day of Prayer as something that turns prayer into a public thing, against what Jesus taught of not being a showoff with one's prayer but to be humble, but that's very rare to be honest.
Then there's the core issues of the belief system itself. Even if Jesus specifically preached for the rights of those oppressed under what the institution of Christianity became (he preached generally for them, I'll have to give credit for that), the overall message of Christianity is still inherently oppressive. No amount of "helping the spiritually poor" will take away the whole situation that the omnipotent, omnibenevolent God himself created in the first place. The excuse of a good afterlife is what makes genocides not such a big deal; aka "God will sort them out." Christians can be against genocides and injustice all they want, they and their god can be angry at them, but in the end most Christians do believe in that phrase; the idea that in the end, no matter what happens, God will bring justice. This is simply unacceptable because of the sheer insignificance it places in this life; in the only certain life we will have, and puts it in an afterlife that no one can be sure of. (This is when they fall back onto faith itself, which I will address in a moment.) Of course, there's also the threat of going to Hell which is masked as a choice that the sinner makes, rather than a punishment or a flaw in the system that God set up.
Christianity (in any form, the "good" kind or the bad) can make up as many explanations as my video card can draw polygons to the problem of evil in the existence of an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god. Or they may not take any explanations and simply stick to faith itself; faith that God had/has the perfect plan. They may say that God is beyond human logic or that he does not have to answer all of humanity's questions. (Basically, the jumbled bible is enough if you interpret it "sincerely".) Or they may even say that God had to set up the problem of evil so that there would be a standard for "his love"; for a few who believe him to be able to "feel that love" (which they would not be able to without a standard to compare it to; evil itself) at the expense of everyone else, and of course, that divine intervention would mean that humanity would depend on him far too much. (The latter of which is actually somewhat of a valid point.) Yet another explanation is free will itself; that without evil there would be no true free will.
But in the end, the truth is that a god who is omnipotent and omnibenevolent could have created the world in a way where that "love", as he calls it, would work out without the problem of evil itself; where his message would be understood by all, and where understanding that message would not be an issue to free will. (He is, after all, omnipotent and would be able to work around through such logic.) This god is what so many people depend on and hang onto. They can only think of that sacrifice of Jesus and try to glorify God in all they do, but never think beyond that; they don't have a standard for God (which is why they just put their faith in him instead of questioning) but only have God's standard for them.
I hope this made sense enough, at least to those with a fair understanding of the Christian faith. Offensive or not, these are questions that, IMO, everyone who recognizes the faith must answer. I guess some already have answers to that, but each person has a different standard for those answers.
And that is the better way to have this discussion; by digging deep into the belief system itself; into theodicies and theology, rather than just scratching the surface with simple logic and arguments (along with simply calling people who don't understand sexual orientation as bigots).
^(will be back with my take on these questions in the morning... I actually have some unique interpretations on theodicy based on my most recent reading of the Torah.)
Originally posted by cjd
while completely missing the Biblical instruction about loving your neighbor as yourself, loving your enemy, and giving your second coat away to someone who has none. This Biblical ideal is what I am striving to teach kids.
while completely missing the Biblical instruction about loving your neighbor as yourself, loving your enemy, and giving your second coat away to someone who has none. This Biblical ideal is what I am striving to teach kids.
Bullshit. You pass laws based on faith, and that makes you an asshole. If you're getting a christian education degree or whatever you're a critical part of organization, and you're an asshole through and through.
Originally posted by cjd
It has its roots as a religion of the poor and oppressed, and of people seeking to help them based on Jesus' instruction.
It has its roots as a religion of the poor and oppressed, and of people seeking to help them based on Jesus' instruction.
Crusades.
Originally posted by cjd
In fact, Jesus spent a good portion of His ministry speaking AGAINST the people of the day who went around telling people "do this, do that, or God will strike our nation down," while they themselves were being hypocrites and devouring widows' houses.
In fact, Jesus spent a good portion of His ministry speaking AGAINST the people of the day who went around telling people "do this, do that, or God will strike our nation down," while they themselves were being hypocrites and devouring widows' houses.
And then the ten commandments and other things were written like that men can't have long hair and that we can't eat anything that doesn't have scales that comes from the seafloor. And that passage you used to justify slavery, etc.
Originally posted by cjd
My point is, our organized system is corrupt, and not representative of the true religion.
My point is, our organized system is corrupt, and not representative of the true religion.
Yes you're above the organized fraction. I hear this all the time. You're better than everyone and a nicer person. I should join you in your ability to be better than everyone and nicer while you vote in public officials that propagate the agenda you supposed aren't a part of. love.
Originally posted by cjd
It wasn't until the Roman Empire adopted it that it suddenly became the heirarchal power that it is today. And it is this corrupt manmade political system, not the religion itself, that was responsible for the inquisition, genocide, and murder of millions of people that you speak of.
It wasn't until the Roman Empire adopted it that it suddenly became the heirarchal power that it is today. And it is this corrupt manmade political system, not the religion itself, that was responsible for the inquisition, genocide, and murder of millions of people that you speak of.
No the Bible is used to justify all of those and still is today. Besides the three abrahamic religions are the only ones that invented the idea of a war that is for god. All other religions are baffled by this context, so it's the evil that is inherent within the whole abrahamic religious spectrum that is at fault, not a select few politicians. Nice try. No other major religion has this principle. Besides, you're in a school with a Christian education program. How can anyone actually know you haven't been taught fabricated history?
Originally posted by cjd
As a final note, Christianity is the only religion that evangelizes because Jesus did tell us to "Go, and make disciples of all nations." There is no problem with that.
As a final note, Christianity is the only religion that evangelizes because Jesus did tell us to "Go, and make disciples of all nations." There is no problem with that.
Except for the whole being an oppressive asshole thing.
Originally posted by cjd
The problem is that we are also not listening to Jesus' other instruction to not cast our pearls before those who will just trample them underfoot and then turn and tear us to pieces.
The problem is that we are also not listening to Jesus' other instruction to not cast our pearls before those who will just trample them underfoot and then turn and tear us to pieces.
Yes be responsible for genocide, suffering, etc, (I'm not repeating it) and then turn the tables around and act like the victim. Great job love. I'm so sorry I never thought that people solely responsible for everything were in fact not the victims in the situation. My bad.
Originally posted by cjd
That is where we are going wrong. There are millions of people out there who do want to hear the Gospel, and are willing to listen to what we have to say, and those are the ones that we should be "recruiting." We are actually ignoring Jesus' instructions when we continue to hassle people who have no interest in converting to Christianity.
That is where we are going wrong. There are millions of people out there who do want to hear the Gospel, and are willing to listen to what we have to say, and those are the ones that we should be "recruiting." We are actually ignoring Jesus' instructions when we continue to hassle people who have no interest in converting to Christianity.
No I'm fairly certain you just killed off the people who didn't want to hear it (Africa, Native Americans, etc). Big difference.
Originally posted by cjd
And just to clear the air, I have no interest in being an evangelist. My God-given calling is to be involved in discipleship, IE teaching Christians how they should be better.
And just to clear the air, I have no interest in being an evangelist. My God-given calling is to be involved in discipleship, IE teaching Christians how they should be better.
Yeah keep propagating the lies to make sure your select group is better while demonizing the rest of the outsiders.
Us and them, us and them.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
At this point, I'm sick of both of us reiterating the same points over and over again. You're not going to change your mind no matter what I say, so there's no longer any point in me writing page-long posts. I've said enough already, and those reading should have more than enough to judge for themselves already.
You've failed to address most of my points anyways.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
@coasterkid: You don't even know if he goes out to vote, and if he doesn't, he's no worse than the average basement dweller who doesn't give a flying love about politics and thus also does not vote on critical issues where human rights and such are at stake. He did already say that he doesn't evangelize, so I wouldn't put him in the "spread lies" camp either. Overall, there's a lot of assumptions you're making just from his faith; its like saying anyone who agrees with some aspects of socialism is a totalitarian who wants to commit genocide just like Stalin did. Hell, it's even like comparing anyone who's atheist to Stalin, even though while Stalin himself was atheist, he obviously promoted the state religion of Stalinism. (i.e. The deification of Stalin himself.)
However, you are correct that getting a Christian-related education does generally support them as a whole, and whether or not you know how he votes, it's likely to be unfavorable for progression in our country. I still think you take some of those points a bit too far though. Even though the bible is easily interpreted to support slavery (and it CERTAINLY and OBVIOUSLY does NOT condemn slavery), it doesn't mean the Christian himself does not condemn slavery. (That is, condemn slavery, not merely lack support of.) On the other hand, most Christians lack a stance on modern issues that I mentioned above; they may not go and support the regression that the right wingers have supported, but most of them don't seem to downright reject it either.
No need to make big, harsh generalizations and call him a "love" though lol.
However, you are correct that getting a Christian-related education does generally support them as a whole, and whether or not you know how he votes, it's likely to be unfavorable for progression in our country. I still think you take some of those points a bit too far though. Even though the bible is easily interpreted to support slavery (and it CERTAINLY and OBVIOUSLY does NOT condemn slavery), it doesn't mean the Christian himself does not condemn slavery. (That is, condemn slavery, not merely lack support of.) On the other hand, most Christians lack a stance on modern issues that I mentioned above; they may not go and support the regression that the right wingers have supported, but most of them don't seem to downright reject it either.
No need to make big, harsh generalizations and call him a "love" though lol.
The weird thing about jahova witnesses is that they believe only a small predetermined number of followers will get into heaven, so why do they try and promote their religion if majority of their church are going to hell anyways? so much for hope
Originally posted by coasteragent99
@coasterkid: You don't even know if he goes out to vote, and if he doesn't, he's no worse than the average basement dweller who doesn't give a flying love about politics and thus also does not vote on critical issues where human rights and such are at stake. He did already say that he doesn't evangelize, so I wouldn't put him in the "spread lies" camp either.
@coasterkid: You don't even know if he goes out to vote, and if he doesn't, he's no worse than the average basement dweller who doesn't give a flying love about politics and thus also does not vote on critical issues where human rights and such are at stake. He did already say that he doesn't evangelize, so I wouldn't put him in the "spread lies" camp either.
Originally posted by coasteragent99
Overall, there's a lot of assumptions you're making just from his faith; its like saying anyone who agrees with some aspects of socialism is a totalitarian who wants to commit genocide just like Stalin did. Hell, it's even like comparing anyone who's atheist to Stalin, even though while Stalin himself was atheist, he obviously promoted the state religion of Stalinism. (i.e. The deification of Stalin himself.)
Overall, there's a lot of assumptions you're making just from his faith; its like saying anyone who agrees with some aspects of socialism is a totalitarian who wants to commit genocide just like Stalin did. Hell, it's even like comparing anyone who's atheist to Stalin, even though while Stalin himself was atheist, he obviously promoted the state religion of Stalinism. (i.e. The deification of Stalin himself.)
If you fund any of those organizations then you're part of the problem. If he is in one of those programs then chances are extremely that he has.
It's like the morons that refuse to get their children vaccinated. They're all assholes who kill babies, no questions asked. None of them are special, unique, or are above that because they made an attempt at an inspiring speech or have a goal. They're just a baby killer.
Originally posted by coasteragent99
However, you are correct that getting a Christian-related education does generally support them as a whole, and whether or not you know how he votes, it's likely to be unfavorable for progression in our country. I still think you take some of those points a bit too far though. Even though the bible is easily interpreted to support slavery (and it CERTAINLY and OBVIOUSLY does NOT condemn slavery), it doesn't mean the Christian himself does not condemn slavery. (That is, condemn slavery, not merely lack support of.) On the other hand, most Christians lack a stance on modern issues that I mentioned above; they may not go and support the regression that the right wingers have supported, but most of them don't seem to downright reject it either.
However, you are correct that getting a Christian-related education does generally support them as a whole, and whether or not you know how he votes, it's likely to be unfavorable for progression in our country. I still think you take some of those points a bit too far though. Even though the bible is easily interpreted to support slavery (and it CERTAINLY and OBVIOUSLY does NOT condemn slavery), it doesn't mean the Christian himself does not condemn slavery. (That is, condemn slavery, not merely lack support of.) On the other hand, most Christians lack a stance on modern issues that I mentioned above; they may not go and support the regression that the right wingers have supported, but most of them don't seem to downright reject it either.
I have yet to meet someone that doesn't believe in evolution or geologic time that can actually explain what they're. It's ignorance across the board perpetuated and encouraged by the hambeasts that teach that hateful christian poop.
I interpret the Bible to say that trees are satanistic. You cannot argue that with me since it's part of my faith. I will now go protest a biology department and demand that that idea be put into botany textbooks everywhere (thanks Texas!). Nevermind the years of work that says otherwise. I will now go get a christian education degree and teach at private schools and spread the word of christ that trees are evil to others. I am a winner.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
^
![[lol]](https://www.coastercrazy.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_e_ugeek.gif "test")
[lol][lol]
What the heck was that monstrosity of words? XD
edit - still not changing what I said above after your edit!
[lol][lol]
What the heck was that monstrosity of words? XD
edit - still not changing what I said above after your edit!
"Don't be a disability"... yep, still keeping that. 
What is not to understand?
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
Religion is simply an outdated tribal survival strategy.
Originally posted by Mikey
Religion is simply an outdated tribal survival strategy.
Religion is simply an outdated tribal survival strategy.
Exactly correct. The twisted remnants of which, have been blown out of all proportions.
I often think that religion is now on it's way to dying and the human race finally leaving it behind, in the past, where it should be. But the more and more I think about it, as long as there are gullible people in the world, religion/cults will exist. Which makes me actually quite sad.
I don't want to get into fights over religion. I'm just posting this reply to see if my computer is working properly.
Trackwalker
Well, what do you know? It worked. Then how come I can't upload a track or rate a track?
Trackwalker
Interesting subject, though. Ooops. Sorry about that triple post.
Trackwalker
everyone is having problems with the track exchange at the moment due to the server switch over.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
^Now that's just screwed up. IMO, not all Christians are assholes, but these guys defenitely are. If anything, that banner's gonna turn away people.
Thanks Gouldy for that info about this website. Thought it was just me having a problem.
Might as well get in my two cents on this topic. I was brought up to respect all religions. Sure, there have been some bad ones. We should be intelligent enough to avoid those. Jehovah's Witnesses have the right to ask us to join their church and we have the right to respectfully decline or accept. I don't belong to any particular church. If God wants us to belong to one certain church to be saved, well, then I guess I'm not in the chosen few.
Might as well get in my two cents on this topic. I was brought up to respect all religions. Sure, there have been some bad ones. We should be intelligent enough to avoid those. Jehovah's Witnesses have the right to ask us to join their church and we have the right to respectfully decline or accept. I don't belong to any particular church. If God wants us to belong to one certain church to be saved, well, then I guess I'm not in the chosen few.
Trackwalker
I find that drawing an outline of a body (akin to a crime scene after a murder) on my porch and scattering several "Watchtower" handouts around it normally keeps them at bay.
(There, I weighed in on this. Ha!)
(There, I weighed in on this. Ha!)
Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all.
The Christians were responsible for the Holocaust, certain Islamic and Muslim religions haven't stopped being at war in 10,000 years. Frankly, the world would be better place with out religion.
Originally posted by Mikey
The Christians were responsible for the Holocaust, certain Islamic and Muslim religions haven't stopped being at war in 10,000 years. Frankly, the world would be better place with out religion.
The Christians were responsible for the Holocaust, certain Islamic and Muslim religions haven't stopped being at war in 10,000 years. Frankly, the world would be better place with out religion.
Agreed. Religion has done nothing to help anything in our world, ever. A relationship with Christ is the key -- not the "ceremonies" which spend time vaulting this, that, or the other and more or less spend time exalting man.
Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all.
