Launching NL Coasters

Well, I got (and Ive seen other people) complain about ways to stop launched coasters on a rollback.

Theres 2 ways to do it in my book:

1. Realism - Using a small lift segment after your brake segment but before the transport because on an E-stop, the train will come back and hit the lift and stop. Yes, its not realistic in that it will stop DEAD in its tracks, but it avoids making long ugly brake sections.

2. Safe Way - The safe way is when you make the brake segment long enough to stop the train no matter its speed. This however, is realistic in the sense that no one dies, its very unrealistic to build. No launched ride has a set of brakes to stop seperate from the launching mechinism themselves, and if they do, they coincide with each other on the same segments (like Premier launchs)


Im not really ranting, or upset. I want to see what people think of the above 2 methods.

Right now, to be perfectly real, the transports would have to work in reverse on a e-stop and stop the train at the end. However, on an E-stop the transports do nothing and shut off, meaning all the speed it had is not lost untill it hits the brakes.



In my case for Rogue Wave, I have a severely inclined launch. The ride is already IMO too large and had I added a brake BIG enough to catch the train, the actual launch segment probably would have been half as big, meaning I would have had to make the launch velocity TWICE as quick, which would be unrealistic in any sense since LIMS dont really accelerate that fast anyways.

But in most cases with a 3-5 degree launch, anything over 60-70mph needs a pretty long brake run to catch it, even with a high Decel but I still find that unrealistic too. You cant stop people at like 3 Decel G's, thats way to harsh.



So whats the take on this? I know we will most likly not come to a final answer and people will not budge from their stands, but I think it would be good to verify or come to an agreement on one or both of these issues.

3rd way: Use a brake as part of the launch.

Buster.

I just completly ignore ebrake situations on rocket coasters in nl....

Buster: I did use the brake as part of the launch, but the brake would still be freakin huge. Is there another way you speak of? or are you saying to make the whole brake the launch?

If you are, wow, am I dumb. *runs to try this*

More or less. You will need a small LIM at the end of the section to ensure that a late E-Stop while launching doesn't cause the train to valley somewhere. If it can make the course once it went through the first inversion, you could use a brake for the whole launch, yes. If it doesn't, find out the minimal speed it needs, at the end use a lim that will accelerarte the train to that speed from a standstill. The rest of the launch you can set up as a brake. brakespeed can be set really high as you don't want it to brake on the launch (who am I telling this? lol). In case of E-stop -> no problem.

Buster.

But thats as unrealistic as the long brake section to catch it.

In my case, if I E-stop near the top, it just freezes. See using the lift before the transport ensures that the train comes all the way back to the starting position.

I think its a bit silly to have it come back half way, and launch all the way from there. Thats too unrealistic for me as well. Yes, you solve the E-stop situation, but you create another mess of things like getting the train back to its original (or close to) starting spot and then a realistic second launch. Thats what I look for.

hmm.
Take a look at AXXON then. Also remember, that you can use a rather high brakeforce as you brake in reverse. No need to keep Gs low then. So this ensures a rather short brake with a longer LIM behind and would also ensure a similar startingposition after E-stop.

Buster.

[Dirk_Ermen]

4th way:
Use a lift before the brake section.

If you put it like this:
------lim------|-brake-|-short-lift-segment-
then the train will run over the brake but that short segment before the brake, that will take care of that it doesn't run into the station, of something else. And when you disable e-stop the train is standing nice on the brake ( like on real coasters ) and transporting to the front of the brake so it can try for an second launch. [:)]
more realistic or not? Cause some launches are made exactly on the launch of the brake and lim, not only the lim.

Dirk

[Kev]

I don't think there is a truly realistic way of protecting against e-stops in NL, at least from what i've seen...especially when the launch is directly from the station. A lift segment will definitely stop the train running reverse after an e-stop, but it isn't very realistic. I would figure that the sudden stop on a lift segment would probably injure/kill people in real life.

[Dirk_Ermen]

if ol????????? did build in that on e-stop the lims work in reverse way, so slow down instead of speed up, so the acceleration became deceleration.

[Kev]

Originally posted by Dirk_Ermen

if ol????????? did build in that on e-stop the lims work in reverse way, so slow down instead of speed up, so the acceleration became deceleration.

That would be cool. I'm pretty sure that's how it works in SM.

[coolbeans326]

man, I'm totally confused.

Originally posted by Kev

I don't think there is a truly realistic way of protecting against e-stops in NL, at least from what i've seen...especially when the launch is directly from the station. A lift segment will definitely stop the train running reverse after an e-stop, but it isn't very realistic. I would figure that the sudden stop on a lift segment would probably injure/kill people in real life.

Its unrealistic in that yea, its going to injure people. But its one of the few ways to get your ride to stop where you want it too. Other than that, its the only way I can think of (still havent looked at AXXON yet)

[Brtnboarder495]

Ya a hydroluic lauch feature would be nice too! (with the catapult, magnetic brakes and all). In all this seems to still be one of NL's biggest issues. I would be happy if the would just fix this lanchins deaceleration issue. When I build IRC, I never make a seperate mechanism or segment to brake, because I know that IRL, there would be the magnetic brakes to slow the train back down durring an E-stop.

[coolbeans326]

they also need to add another spine style to Premier Rides (look at Speed - The Ride)

I used on my Horse Power a Brake section as launch track.. it works if its used as a blocksegment.. only problem if its passed the brak/launch then the other train will go ready for launch.. if the 1 train does'nt make the hill or inversion it will rollback on to the next train..
that was my problem.. awnser: don't use it as blocksegment.. then the track is clear after the first train crossing a brakesection/block no probs here.. xcept the train will not stop ON the launchsection.
NL's biggest bug..

Real, check your mail. I sent you a tweaked Version of your coaster that will behave realistically and NOT crash on E-Stop and NOT kill riders due to a dead stop on a liftsection.

Buster.

PS: I think you can set the trigger to the very front on the holdingbrake to avoid the extra opening and closing of that brake. Should still work.

[Brtnboarder495]

I would rather them fix the current bugs/issues before adding new track styles.

I just ignore E-stop at launched coaster. If the ride has a MCBR, make sure it come back to the station after a E-stop and I'm satisfied[;)] Since its impossible to make it realistic I think this is the best way. Having brakes at the launch section woudl look stupid.

Maybe this is a bad idea, but how about using lifts for laucnh sections, atleast at Rocket coaster. This would solve the whole problem, and the lifts are closer to the real thing than Lims (I think, not sure)

It ain't impossible to get it right.

Buster.

[Dirk_Ermen]

Originally posted by x

Maybe this is a bad idea, but how about using lifts for laucnh sections, atleast at Rocket coaster. This would solve the whole problem, and the lifts are closer to the real thing than Lims (I think, not sure)

If you use an lift, and then the e-stop test, so it launches first off the launch section. Then when it rollsback it just imediatly stops. and if you disable e-stop then again the train just can't move. I'd still think that a lift segment before the brake would be the best. So you get: lift piece--brake(for waits)--launch--track...
It won't remove the deadly kill when it rolls back but when you disable the e-stop the track is nice on the block before the launch [:)]

Well, I used this setup to make it work:
|-Station-|----|-brake for e-stop-|hold|-------launch-------|-track....

The holding brake is very short. The first brake is the brake that will catch the train on E-stop. Works without any problem.

Buster.

[Brtnboarder495]

But on fast launched coasters, the brake for e-stop would have to be decently long even with the max deacceleration(4)!

[Brtnboarder495]

Originally posted by x

I just ignore E-stop at launched coaster. If the ride has a MCBR, make sure it come back to the station after a E-stop and I'm satisfied[;)] Since its impossible to make it realistic I think this is the best way. Having brakes at the launch section woudl look stupid.

Maybe this is a bad idea, but how about using lifts for laucnh sections, atleast at Rocket coaster. This would solve the whole problem, and the lifts are closer to the real thing than Lims (I think, not sure)

Ya as already posted the lift section idea doesnt work unfortunetely, because it stops it immediately which is really unrealistic, it would either brake the chain of the lift I would think, or the lift would slow the train down (in very slow cases). And it is not impossible to make launched coasters operate perfectly in NL, it just takes some planning and testing. You have to make sure that the train travels decently slow into/over/through the first inversion or element to ensure that it can complete the rest of the circuit. In most cases you would want the highest point of the track to also be the first element or inversion, so the train collects enough momentum to make it to at least the MCBR if not the final brakes. It is hard to explain in words, but think about it, maybe Buster or Real can better explain it.

I wasn't thinking about that. I was thinking about having a brake before the lauch or not. If you have a brake section before th launch it has to be pretty long, and that is in most cases pretty unrealistic. And not having the brake means that your track can crash. So both are pretty unrealistic.