Newton 0-gs and other inversion fun

Hello, I have been using Newton for a while now, but I have always had problems with inversions. What I could really use help with is how to make a 0g roll. I remember that bump transitions are best to use, but I forgot the other settings and I can't seem to make it work. Also, instructions on how to make a decent loop that doesn't come around on itself or awkwardly bank at points and dive loop/immelman would be amazing too. And don't just say "use quaternion" because I am..

Thanks

A zero-G roll is almost impossible in Newton because of the fact that it can't use separate time zones. Solution: Use the example element for FVD, or just use the Elementary Wizard and AHG.

Another example of how FVD > Newton. You can make perfect 0g rolls with FVD.

I should have added that I already know that FVD>Newton, but I am far too lazy/busy to spend time learning FVD until summer.

However, I know 0gs are possible because I remember seeing a thread at coastersims in which entropy told how to make a 0g. However, coastersims is not exactly accessible anymore.

^While it is possible, it will be unnecessarily painful and won't ever come out quite right. FVD takes about 20 minutes to learn the basics, and the default setting on the z06 formula is a freakin' zero-g roll. Also, if you understand how to operate Newton, you already understand how the FVD formula works, you just need to figure out where to put in the values, and even that is fairly easy. Go for it!

[Coasterkidmwm]

Make a parabola and then bank by hand? Duuurrrrrrr

To make a zero-g-roll in Newton, I used 7 sections. Firstly, I started off with my entrance, which consisted of 3 sections, the last leading out to 0g. Next, I added a 180 degree roll, in which the top was level (you may have to play with the timings a bit here, to get it perfect). Now, I added another 180 degree roll the same length to make the exit. Now, I finished the roll off, with an exit.

Here is where the transition types come into play. Highlight the first 180 roll, and then select "(Special) Quintic to Slope". This will make the entrance to the roll nice and smooth, and make the end of this time zone roll fastly. Now, highlight the second 180 degree roll, and then select transition type "(Special) Slope to Quintic".

What the transition types did is basically make the roll one smooth moment, making it seem like it was just one segment. Also, I did not use the quaternion orientation type, I used the euler type.

You can build an entire multi-looping coaster using the Euler Orientation. All you really have to do is play with the Transition types, to get a smooth ride. Also, the Euler style shows you exact bankings, rather than super precise bankings [;)]

I will put the model up in the exchange in a bit. However, with Newton being Newton, the forces are not exact.

Edit: Here's the track: http://www.coastercrazy.com/track_excha ... ?tid=15342

You don't need 7 sections to build 0g rolls--it's easier (and better) to do it all in one section. Here's how, starting from a new session:

1) under initial settings, set speed to 25 m/s, pitch to 25 degrees, and normal to 2g;
2) under the roll delta settings, change the amount by (+/-) 360 degrees using the quintic transition;
3) under the normal delta settings, change the amount by -2g and the transition to sinusoidal (or one of the bump transitions);
4) adjust the time so that the the inversion is in the middle (~ 5 s).

For a loop*, again starting from scratch:

1) change the initial speed and normal to 30 m/s and 4g, respectively;
2) switch to quaternions;
3) adjust the time so you get a loop (actually, just a little bit beyond);
4) change the normal transition to one of the bumps (experiment to your liking), and adjust the delta normal amount by about -2g (again, to your liking);
5) adjust the roll delta so the loop clears itself (~20-30 degrees);
6) readjust time so the inversion is centered in the section.


*Incidentally, there's a bug in newton that makes loops more difficult than they should be by "NaN-ing" out to early. I really should get around to fixing that one of these days.... [;)]

Originally posted by entropy

You don't need 7 sections to build 0g rolls--it's easier (and better) to do it all in one section. Here's how, starting from a new session:

1) under initial settings, set speed to 25 m/s, pitch to 25 degrees, and normal to 2g;
2) under the roll delta settings, change the amount by (+/-) 360 degrees using the quintic transition;
3) under the normal delta settings, change the amount by -2g and the transition to sinusoidal (or one of the bump transitions);
4) adjust the time so that the the inversion is in the middle (~ 5 s).

For a loop*, again starting from scratch:

1) change the initial speed and normal to 30 m/s and 4g, respectively;
2) switch to quaternions;
3) adjust the time so you get a loop (actually, just a little bit beyond);
4) change the normal transition to one of the bumps (experiment to your liking), and adjust the delta normal amount by about -2g (again, to your liking);
5) adjust the roll delta so the loop clears itself (~20-30 degrees);
6) readjust time so the inversion is centered in the section.


*Incidentally, there's a bug in newton that makes loops more difficult than they should be by "NaN-ing" out to early. I really should get around to fixing that one of these days.... [;)]

I just used 7 sections because it was the whole roll with a lead-in and a lead-out. The track i made is in the exchange.

Can anyone send me newton or tell me where to get it... I've been searching everywhere and used to have it.

Ah, thanks so much entropy. I remembered half of the instructions, but couldn't seem to get the rest to work. That is exactly what I needed!

That's interesting, I find that zero-G rolls are some of the easiest elements to make in Newton. I make the start of the hill, transition to 0 Gs, then have a long section staying at zero Gs with the banking set to something like 360 degrees. It's not perfect, but the vertical Gs stay pretty small. And that's with me using a heartline value that's slightly wrong for the coaster.

I make the Zero G in Newton (if thats what Im using) and then bank by hand...then AHG. Comes out pretty perfect.

I think sometimes the FVD's come out too perfect with G's almost too low in inversions. At least if youre mimicking real life rides. Ive seen outer seats (front and back) where the G's are under 0.3 which isnt realistic. Even on Talon which has a very VERY smooth and nice Zero G I definitly feel more than a centrifigal force pushing me into the restraint upon entering or exiting. Its nothing major, maybe 0.5 or 0.6 but I think FVD's almost exploit the NL System and produces tracks that are almost fantasy in their G Control.

Hence why Im such a harsh critic with FVD'd rides. PEople think you can just throw your numbers in and because the G's are low and theres no pumping it makes it perfect coaster. Far from it. I like to see G control which also means having those rotational G's represented. ;)


Yea, I think just handbanking after making a zero g is the easiest route. Pretty much how I work.

^Ya for example, on Batman at SFNE it has alot of lats on the exit and decent hang-time when your upsidedown. And Griffon actually has lats on its curves and hills.



Cant do that with fvds

^Uh yes you can...if you know what you are doing.