Newton + Elementary = Soul Mates?

Alrighty, so I've finally broken down and gotten Newton2. I have a background in FVD's, even though I didn't like to use them, so I understand the concepts. But, I have run into an issue I can't seem to get my head around. I'm making a little B&M invert with a typical curved drop and since FVD's are kind of finicky about this style drop, I decided just to H:SAK it. That's all fine and dandy, but the transition isn't smooth. The H:SAK element has a lead out of 35* and ends with a pitch of 55*. The normal force is 0.6(as read from the sim, better way of getting this number anybody?) I start my Newton track with a pitch of 55* and an initial speed of 54km/h(15m/s) and when I got to mate them, there's a bump. Ideas? Suggestions? Let me know if you need more info on the elements and methods.


Ahahahaha. I got so worked up that the problem was something horribly confusing that I completely overlooked something super simple. Sorry to have bothered ya! lol

Suggestion. Don't do it that way. It's WAY more painful than it's worth, especially when you can make a perfectly good one with only Newton. I don't recommend that procedure at all.

Alrighty. Any suggestions for a B&M esque drop made in Newton? One starting with a pre-drop, since that's the only case I've run into any issues.

Just think about what kinda forces you feel. Note that the tough part comes from the fact that the train is almost not moving based on gravity at the very beginning, so that might change how you approach it a little because of that slow and controlled speed. Other than that...if it turns or drops too much, try banking less and go from there. The opposite is also true. Forces are intertwined with that too, so just changing those 2 variables in the 4 possible ways (high bank-low force, high bank-high force, low bank-low force, low bank-high force) until you get a satisfactory result.

That's seriously how you design rides like Cypher? By guess and check? Haha that made my day!!
Btw, this is a totally serious post, and is in no way bashing your ability to create godly tracks....

Well I mean you just have to have an idea of how things work, along with a good understanding of shaping of the given company style and how to achieve it (and what you can do with it) then from there you iterate until you get it perfect. Generally I can get things pretty close on the first try, which makes things a lot easier, but really that doesn't matter much. What matters is the final result.

Another thing I love about Newton is it's so fast that it's within reason to completely redo an entire layout, and I've done it several times for a couple rides. Every time I redo something, I fix a bunch of little things I noticed in the previous iteration and the result is that much better for it. I think Newton2 is what I was waiting for since I got the program in 2003.

Ah, that's so cool! Thanks for the tips

Well, took your advice and have been trying several different methods to get this right. I can see it in sight, but my arm isn't quite reaching far enough... lol

So far the closest I've come is with this set up; three normal zones with one lateral and roll zone locked to the normal zones. The roll zone is set to a moderate roll and the I use timewarping to tweak it, but I get this nasty bump at the very beggining that I can't get rid of. Is this because of the way I'm setting up my zones or just something you have to fine-fine-fine-tune because the speeds are so low?

I try to overlap my individual zones, but other than that I dunno. Good luck!

I can personal testify that creating curved drops in Newton is very difficult, but it is doable.

The key is to use very long zones. Most likely you will have a single banking zone for almost the whole drop. Vertical Gs should stay close to 1 for most of the turning phase. Also, don't forget that time-warping transitions can be used to improve otherwise awkward shaping.

Beyond that, B&M drops, along with cobra rolls, are difficult to create, and require a lot of trial and error. However, I would definitely recommend Newton over HSAK.

One other small Newton tip: a lateral zone using bump or plateau transitions is great for getting angles at the value you want. As long as you stay under 0.1 Gs, the effects on riders should be minimal. Since Newton offers precision to .001 Gs and less, along with timewarping, you'll be able to get a lot of precision if you want to create a certain angle, say a -5 degree slope for an MCBR.

@dcs221: When I saw Cypher, I thought our building styles were a little similar, but this confirms it.