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Grand National

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Post November 6th, 2005, 10:25 am

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Hey this is a topic where everyone will complain but the hell with it!

Anyway many people have said that the Grand National ride used to have 4 cars in a train? Anway I woundered if anyone knew why the extra one was taken off. I mean I thought parks wanted high capacity???

Also does anyone have a picture of it with 4 cars?

Thanks

Oh now I have found some pics!

Image

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Last edited by coasterboaster on November 6th, 2005, 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post November 6th, 2005, 11:13 am

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They took a train off to reduce the speed of the cars. The ride has change alot without the extra car. The back seat with 4 cars used to be absolutly insane and really was boarderlining on unsafe, you would literaly come so far out of your seat that you had to hold onto the restraints in order to stay seated

Post November 6th, 2005, 11:29 am

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Ahh I hate health and safety that sounds cool!!!

Also its the same with the Big Dipper it now only has 3 cars!!!! Does anyone know if it only has 3 now for the same reasons?

Also what happened to having 4 trains on the National?

Post November 6th, 2005, 11:45 am

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They took a train off to reduce the speed of the cars.


Don't you mean they took a car off to reduce the speed of the train.

Post November 6th, 2005, 11:57 am

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Post November 6th, 2005, 11:59 am

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Well it's getting new trains for next season and I think they will have 4 cars but don't quote me on that.

Post November 6th, 2005, 12:27 pm

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Where did you hear that as I would be interested in looking at their plans!

Post November 6th, 2005, 2:34 pm

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No, the new trains will also only have 3 cars [:(], see information and pictures here:

http://www.mrfunshine.co.uk/news/news_sep05_nash.html


To quote Peter Proctor, who recently took a visit to examine the new cars:


"Ah! - essentially they're the same as the old cars. The upholstery is presently a bit thicker and deeper, though I should think it'll bed down a bit in operation. The side openings feel a little tighter due to the upholstery, though I think the openings might be physically an inch or so tighter woodwork-wise, as from previous measuring of old and new three-row PTC cars, the new ones appear to be four inches shorter (I measured new ones when at PTC last year, and measured old Nash ones during a Cyclone trackwalk at Pleasureland).

The seat dividers are an L-shaped hard rubber thing as opposed to an upholstered wooden plate. The rubber must be moulded around some steel bar. PTC must be revising their designs.

I didn't try a belt but I pulled the lapbar down, which is standard-issue PTC. The ratcheting seems to start about halfway down, and goes right down. I hope during staff training when the cars are introduced and tested in January, that the issue of stapling is addressed - pulling the bar down a few clicks to the same height as the old bars is fine!

Keith reckons the belts will be an operational nightmare, but as PTC supplied them and strongly recommend their use, they have no option but to used them - if a bar came open mid-ride and the rider's belt wasn't fastened (or actually rather the belt had been removed by the park) and they stood up and became injured, BPB would be in trouble for not using the restraint systems "as designed" by the manufacturer. Knoebels get away with the removal of belts on Twister's PTC cars, but there's different regulations in different states over in America (either that or Dick Knoebel has the balls to risk it!).

The thing I'm most looking forward to really is having four trains running again. That queue must be eaten!

Also, as I was told by Keith and engineering staff, I'm happy to report that the new braking systems won't get rid of the manual levers. The magnetic brakes will be actuated ones before the final drop (replacing the winch-set caliper ones there, which have always existed by the way) which will regulate the speed as need be for entry into the station-approach brakes, which will be "dead" permanent magnets. The station holding brakes will stay manual.

The excuse why the cars can't yet be put into service seems to be the different brakes, but infact the new fins will operate with the present brakes - if they'll operate with the station brakes, they'll operate with the slowing brakes! The actual reason is that the electrical system operating the old bars needs to be replaced by a mechanical pushing bar mounted within the track, which will push up the plungers which control the lapbar mechanisms (the plungers are the things protuding down from the front beam of the cars, connected to the bar mechanisms via the yellow foot-peddle mechanism, which itself is for emergency evacuation only). Actually (the following being personal speculation), I bet the track-mounted control bar will be manually operated (they could even retain the slowing levers for the purpose) as there'll be no air compressor needed for the new brakes, which I would think would normally be used to operate the bar. I should've asked about that!"


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See more pictures here:

http://musical.pete.fotopic.net/c699003.html

Post November 7th, 2005, 11:50 am

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Oh thats a shame!

Anway I really don't like the idea of a seatbelt as I can see the staff going wild about them!

Also I wish they had not put 1 per person lap bars bacause they ensure that there will be no air time. I mean if you have a fat person next to you you had loads of room top fly out!

Post November 7th, 2005, 1:29 pm

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Hopefully it wont be too bad, going for example on The Big One, the ride ops aren't too fussy about seatbelts - as long as they're visibly on, their ok.[approve]

Post November 7th, 2005, 2:21 pm

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Suppose its true but it will still make queues longer!

I hope the trains on the Roller Coaster stay the same bacause they are living history!

Post November 9th, 2005, 9:04 pm

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Originally posted by coasterboaster

Oh thats a shame!

Anway I really don't like the idea of a seatbelt as I can see the staff going wild about them!

Also I wish they had not put 1 per person lap bars bacause they ensure that there will be no air time. I mean if you have a fat person next to you you had loads of room top fly out!


Rides with Individual Lap bars and TONS of airtime:
Raven
Legend
Shivering Timbers
Villain
Hades
Soon to be Voyage


Sure, its not as GREAT as the Single Fixed lap bar (AKA Buzzbar) but as long as you dont staple yourself and follow some guidelines youll get a click or 2 above normal and get plenty of airtime.

Post November 9th, 2005, 9:23 pm

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yikes, i still let the bar touch me and i still fly out of my seat. But i think im gonna try that sometime not pulling it down all the way. this should be interesting[approve]

Post November 9th, 2005, 9:34 pm

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on Thundebolt at SFNE, me n my brother didnt wear the seatbelt tight(It was extended all the way) and the lap bar was like 8 inches off of our laps, and we litteraly flew out of the car on some of the hills. With out the lap bar being there, we would of been long gone outta the cars

Post November 9th, 2005, 9:45 pm

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In PTCs, my thighs are a good 3 inches away from the lapbar all the way down, so I'm not complaining.

Post November 9th, 2005, 10:59 pm

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PTC does make the best coaster trains for most in my opinion. I can't really think of a coaster that has them and has a bad ride blamed on the trains.

Post November 9th, 2005, 11:25 pm

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I try to ride wilde beast at PCW with it being one-click... I either knock it down on the first drop because it's so ruff, or I get insane lateral airtime... The ops know me so I can get away with it.

Anyway, airtime is better then no airtime... even if the ride is really ruff.

Btw, wilde beast has olde style PTC trains, they just only the seat-belt this year to both there woodys and it make so much more SUCKY! I usually undo the seat-belt at the first turn around or after the pre-drop(that's not technically a pre-drop)

I'm sure that on lots of woodys you can ride one-click because they are smooth(unlike Mean Streak, which hurt my back when I was in the back, don't ride MS in the back!)


I'm pretty much done with my ranting...

Edit: YES! I made a second page... okay now I'm done.

Post November 9th, 2005, 11:38 pm

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Originally posted by screamomatic

I try to ride wilde beast at PCW with it being one-click... I either knock it down on the first drop because it's so ruff, or I get insane lateral airtime... The ops know me so I can get away with it.

Anyway, airtime is better then no airtime... even if the ride is really ruff.

Btw, wilde beast has olde style PTC trains, they just only the seat-belt this year to both there woodys and it make so much more SUCKY! I usually undo the seat-belt at the first turn around or after the pre-drop(that's not technically a pre-drop)

I'm sure that on lots of woodys you can ride one-click because they are smooth(unlike Mean Streak, which hurt my back when I was in the back, don't ride MS in the back!)


I'm pretty much done with my ranting...

Edit: YES! I made a second page... okay now I'm done.



Id be very suprised if ANY ride-op lets you ride one click. One click means just one click which means that lap bar is doing nothing to hold you in.

Especially on PTC trains which if they have the flap-top seat buckle, those come undone to me at least once every ride Im on. They never stay put. When I rode Mean Streak some years back I was in the back car and had my restraint disengage and unlock to the unlocked position. The only thing holding me in was my seat belt. Had that come undone, only my arms could have held me in.

On Shivering Timbers I had my seat belt come undone and on that ride, thats NOT a good ride to have that happen on. If the bar were to come undone and I was riding back seat, I WOULD be ejected.


One click rides are stupid and unresponsible. If anything, bring it down to within 1-3 clicks of your body and keep your seat belt on. Not snug, but with a tiny bit of slack. You NEED both of those safety devices. If both fail, you are screwed and the park will be at fault, not you.

Post November 10th, 2005, 12:00 am
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^ yeah, I heard that when the person flew out of Raven at Holiday World, it was because they were letting people ride 2 clicks. And on ghost rider I clicked it twice to see where the supports would be at, and its pretty much verticle. But I guess its a little more skewed, like maybe at a 65 degree angle. Anyways, I find that hard to believe, because I know on Ghost rider when I have it 3 clicks from the bottom, the support will tight up on me on the first drop, so I'm pretty sure having it to 2clicks from the top would tighten up a whole crap load too.

Post November 10th, 2005, 2:43 pm

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I wasn't totally one-click like you mean real... One-click on wilde beast is about as high (tall) as a chubby drink bottle, which is kinda like... maybe four-clicks or something.

or kinda like this http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/6959/untitled8dx.jpg ... yeah, not like 'real' one-click like on raven something.


Anyway, all that I'm thinking of is winter being over and going back to CP in may... w00t.

Post November 11th, 2005, 12:19 pm

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Still if Stampida had the current national trains I'm sure it would be a better ride! I mean the air time that would be gained!

It would be painful but it would give a airtime heaven!


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