Did Jesus exist? Italian court to decide

Originally posted by SFMM homie

Originally posted by Real


Ill say it again, I didnt come to know God because I was searching for anything.

Maybe not consiously....Would you tell me the story of how you came across him either in PM or here, just interested. [;)]

Also, to what you said ^ right above, Your right they are 2 very different things. I follow God, but do not believe in him...

Sure, I can do that.

BTW, you cannot follow something you dont believe in. Get it? You could theoretically believe in something but not follow it, but to follow something you dont think exists is...well a contradiction.

i still dont really get it, i understand more now but i dont fully understand

this whole topic is hilarious. christians vs. non-christians. pretty fun stuff that is completely retarded. why fight when no one will have an affect on anyone?

Originally posted by ragan

this whole topic is hilarious. christians vs. non-christians. pretty fun stuff that is completely retarded. why fight when no one will have an affect on anyone?

This is exactly why topics like this often go on forever, because no one is willing to change their opinion (why should they have to?) but at the same time everyone is pressing their opinions on everyone else. I'm not attacking either side here BTW, I've seen it done on both.

Originally posted by TConwell

At any rate, one day everything will be answered. And, if at the end of my life I discover I spent my life living for someone that does not exist -- I will have lost nothing except my time; which was spent in joyful celebration. However, for someone else to die and find out that Christians were right, they would lose everything, to include their very soul. It is a choice ...

Why do you say that TJ?
Because I don't have the same beleifs as you, does that mean I will be treated differently if we are both wrong? You, being accepted, but me, I get to lose my soul? Hardly seems fair..

This is why I reserve my beleifs and maintain a very open mind on every religion or beleif.

A lot of you guys are calling Christianity a path to Christ or whatever you beleive, and disclaiming it as a religion. Just because it is labled a "religion" or a "path" does not make them different. Both are putting faith into something that may or may not be there. So end that pointless dispute right now.

Those of you who keep insisting that this is a pointless discussion because nobody is going to change their beleifs, leave. That is NOT the purpose of a discussion like this. We are all here sharing our own beleifs to learn about each other. Nobody is here to force upon you their beleifs, and if they are, well that is just morally wrong on their part. You also have the choice of NOT posting in this topic, NOT putting your opinion out here, and NOT getting yourself into mischeif you can't handle. Read over the topic TJ has provided to see how a real discussion is put forth. Keep an open mind in here, don't reject somebody for their beleifs, and try listening to them. You may not agree with them, that is fine, tell us why in a logical way. Don't be childish about it.

Here is the link again for those of you who have missed it.
http://www.coasters2k.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3649&

Wait, where is the fight and who exactly is in it? I dont sense any fighting and I dont sense myself or Tcon trying to "convert" anyone. Ive mearly replied to incorrect statements and questions.

Its hardly even been a debate!

Originally posted by Real

Wait, where is the fight and who exactly is in it? I dont sense any fighting and I dont sense myself or Tcon trying to "convert" anyone. Ive mearly replied to incorrect statements and questions.

Its hardly even been a debate!

I never said anybody was fighting and I never said anybody was trying to convert. I said that THAT is where these discussions go wrong. This isn't supposed to be a "debate". We aren't trying to disprove anybody here. We should all absorb the knowledge of others and "discuss" it, not "debate" it. I guess I wasn't quite clear there, but I hope that was.

Sorry for the double post, but what TJ has said back on C2K is just perfect.

"No one here is fighting and I think I can safely say that you need to back off and stop trying to pour gasoline on a fire that could explode. We are sharing ideas here, and there have been no personal attacks to date. Some mere misunderstandings which have been rectified through adult conversation. Go back and re-read what has been said. It is PERFECTLY NORMAL for folks to have a difference of opinion on a topic like this, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to bait anyone or suggest that there is fighting here. It is a conversation, and if you cannot contribute to it substantially then shut up (and yes, that IS directed at you personally)."

The people that question whether this is civil discussion or not are the ones causing the problems. Everybody else is fine.

^I wasnt referring to your post IM. The person above you and above him.


These are broad...so dont go all techincal - I know theres room for it.


Religion - Organized religion that tells people they must follow this set of rules and this set of traditions in order to reach the goal. Very impersonal and focuses on merit and deed rather than on self-maturing and self-sacrificing. Loving may or may not play a central role - could just be a rule. Usually created by man and written by man.

Christianity - non-organized way of life that does have rules but hardly any traditions. Only a few "traditions" really were said by Jesus and not man-made. It is a personal journey and focuses on both deed and self-maturity. Heavy focus on love of others and self-sacrifice (no, not hostile). Created by God, recorded by man.


I hate the word religion.

[gouldy]

I've already missed most of the fun, ahwell [V]

I gave up trying to argue against religion a while ago now, because it doesn't matter what you say, no matter how thought provoking, or indeed correct it is, they will just sit there and flatly refuse to even acknowledge anything that is against their relgion ... so there's no point in even arguing Even though I enjoy arguing a LOT, there just is no point to arguing with someone religious.

Actually, forget not bothering to argue, cus like I said, I enjoy it, so I'll just say what I always say when this sort of topic comes up [:)]. I am all for what religion teaches, in terms of morals and the way in which we should conduct ourselves. What I really REALLY despise though, is that people actually, truly believe these laws were given to us by a God I guess I find it quite funny aswell though, basically because I just laugh at everything these days, life as a whole is pointless let alone all the stupid things we all do while we're here. Any other fully grown adult believing that there was actually some kind of imaginary being telling them how to live there life, would instantly be thrown in a mad house, but no not religious people, because that's obviously completely different yes. Godamn the human race is stupid, hahaha, we aren't entirely sure of something and we have thoughts and feelings that we can't explain, so intead of just accepting that we just don't know what the truth is, the best thing we can do is say that some bloke is floating around in the air, hahahaha And he made the earth in 7 days and all the animals and humans were just there magically too It is quite honestly, hilarious! Either, collectively as a race, humans are writing one massive comedy sketch, or we are all just incredibly naive and stupid. My vote is for the latter option. Why can't we just accept that we don't know why we're here if there is even a reason for us being here, which I strongly doubt, why can't we accept that we can't even begin to imagine how we got here instead of making up stupid stories At what point did we even start caring anyway? We're here now, we'll quite probably never know why, so we should just enjoy it and stop pretending like we know stuff But going back to the very first thing I said in this tiresome paragraph, we need rules to live by and I agree with the rules layed down by most relgions, I just think that orgainzed relgion has gone about putting these rules into action, in completely the wrong way. Scaring little children into being good cus otherwise they'll go to a fictional place with loads of pain and suffering, is just not a good thing to do, what makes it worse, is that adults believe it too ... see what I mean, hilarious!

Anyway, due to me having to get up a ridiculous times in the morning to get to work, I have to go to bed now, so I'll end my unsubstantiated, often offensive arguments there and bid you all, a good night.

LOL! I forgot about that post Iron, thanks for bringing it to life. Yeah, I think I even remember who set my pants on fire to cause that response. Anyway ...

Iron, thank you for your response and for one, I am glad and honored to call you my friend - regardless of what beliefs we may have, you are always and will always be welcomed at my house.

I too, dislike the word "religion", hence why you have not heard me use it in years, nor do I intend to. What I have is a relationship with Jesus - an intimate, personal, and open relationship. There are no secrets between my Him and I because of what He has done for me, and for that I am thankful. My comments (above and before) come from my understanding of the bible and from what God has allowed me to learn and comprehend. Therefore, from that knowledge that I have been entrusted with and given to understand, I am compelled to share it with others ... nothing more.

There is no attempt to conform or change anyone because you see, I do not have that power. The power to change is freely given as a choice, nothing more bud. When one chooses to not follow Christ, they choose what is promised to those who do not believe (according to the bible). But again, it is a complete choice -- and it is not my fault, Real's fault, or anyone else's fault if we share with anyone what we understand as truth and that person rejects it. If we chose to NOT share what we know, then we would be at fault for not passing it on, as we are commanded to do in the bible. So, it is our responsiblity to provide the information that was provided to us and changed us ... and the receiver's choice to accept or deny. It really is that simple. To decide not too to choose, is also to make a choice to not change.

So from that, the logical summary here is that we can talk for years (and probably will), but the bottom line of it all comes down to a simple choice of an individual soul.

[gouldy]

Originally posted by TConwell

What I have is a relationship with Jesus - an intimate, personal, and open relationship. There are no secrets between my Him and I because of what He has done for me, and for that I am thankful.

Originally posted by gouldy

[lol]

I quote myself:

Originally posted by TConwell on C2K

"I think I can safely say that you need to back off and stop trying to pour gasoline on a fire that could explode. We are sharing ideas here, and there have been no personal attacks to date. Some mere misunderstandings which have been rectified through adult conversation. Go back and re-read what has been said. It is PERFECTLY NORMAL for folks to have a difference of opinion on a topic like this, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to bait anyone or suggest that there is fighting here. It is a conversation, and if you cannot contribute to it substantially then shut up (and yes, that IS directed at you personally)."

Furthermore, I quote Iron Man from Page 4:

Originally posted by Iron Man

Those of you who keep insisting that this is a pointless discussion because nobody is going to change their beleifs, leave.

I should stop there, but alas, I cannot because the rest is the finishing move:

Originally posted by Iron Man

That is NOT the purpose of a discussion like this. We are all here sharing our own beleifs to learn about each other. Nobody is here to force upon you their beleifs, and if they are, well that is just morally wrong on their part. You also have the choice of NOT posting in this topic, NOT putting your opinion out here, and NOT getting yourself into mischeif you can't handle. Read over the topic TJ has provided to see how a real discussion is put forth. Keep an open mind in here, don't reject somebody for their beleifs, and try listening to them. You may not agree with them, that is fine, tell us why in a logical way. Don't be childish about it.

Hello (and with the immature intro finished with, i'm ready to go)

Firstly, i should say i feel that it's rediculous for a man to try and disprove Jesus (who, by the way, has in his favour more proof of existence than Julius Caesar). Perhaps his only goal in life is to try and disprove faith, and i can't see him succeeding.

I'd like to point out that i cannot put myself into a religeous category as such. I don't like the word agnostic, but i'm definetely somewhere in the middle, and actively seeking a path to follow(think of it what you will). I believe in a higher power, although i'm not clear on christianity in it's full form. (I'm sorry if that offended any christians, it was not meant to in any way. I'm just struggling to put the ideas down.)

I found what hyyyper said on page one both interesting and highly offensive. "We all know god doesn't exist but some of us haven't accepted it" [paraphrase] Erm, no. That is a severely uninformed view. Have you actually read anything or can you provide me with any proof that that is true. And for those of you that say "science etc." can i just point out that science is something we have created to explain our surroundings. Just because something doesn't fit our rules does not mean that it is not possible. Why should God adhere to human time and life. I'm not demeaning science, merely pointing out that it is not the be-all end-all of everything. If anyone wants to persue this, i would be happy to go along with it.

I have read deeply into this, as it is an important part of my life. I think it is important that people accept it rather than tear it apart.

Originally posted by Carlosio

And for those of you that say "science etc." can i just point out that science is something we have created to explain our surroundings.

What do you consider religion as then?

As for my post earlier, what I was trying to say was that these threads tend to go on forever, if people just blindly attack each other's beliefs. If there is order to them and people respect each other they can be pretty interesting.

*Chucks some more petrol into the fire (yeah thats right, PETROL, only idiots say Gas!)

[gouldy]

Originally posted by TConwell

Originally posted by gouldy

[lol]

I quote myself:

Originally posted by TConwell on C2K

"I think I can safely say that you need to back off and stop trying to pour gasoline on a fire that could explode. We are sharing ideas here, and there have been no personal attacks to date. Some mere misunderstandings which have been rectified through adult conversation. Go back and re-read what has been said. It is PERFECTLY NORMAL for folks to have a difference of opinion on a topic like this, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to bait anyone or suggest that there is fighting here. It is a conversation, and if you cannot contribute to it substantially then shut up (and yes, that IS directed at you personally)."

Furthermore, I quote Iron Man from Page 4:

Originally posted by Iron Man

Those of you who keep insisting that this is a pointless discussion because nobody is going to change their beleifs, leave.

I should stop there, but alas, I cannot because the rest is the finishing move:

Originally posted by Iron Man

That is NOT the purpose of a discussion like this. We are all here sharing our own beleifs to learn about each other. Nobody is here to force upon you their beleifs, and if they are, well that is just morally wrong on their part. You also have the choice of NOT posting in this topic, NOT putting your opinion out here, and NOT getting yourself into mischeif you can't handle. Read over the topic TJ has provided to see how a real discussion is put forth. Keep an open mind in here, don't reject somebody for their beleifs, and try listening to them. You may not agree with them, that is fine, tell us why in a logical way. Don't be childish about it.

As per usual, I can't sleep, so I'm back, cus I know you love me [:)]

Firstly, I wasn't personally attacking anyone, I just found that statement funny and told you so, I'm not one for holding in what I think, unless it is going to physically upset someone. So unless you're crying or something, I suggest you just ignore it .

"We are sharing ideas here"

What I said, is my idea .... how does me posting what I posted, differ from you posting what you've posted. I have posted what I believe, as have you. I agree with what is said in those paragraphs, this is to do with learning about the rest of the people posting on here ... and now you've learned I'm a prick . But I don't think that makes my opinion any less valid. If what I believe does happen to put a particular person in the firing line, then love them, just because someone might have reason to be offended by what I say, or what might come of what I say, isn't going to change what I believe is it? And if this topic is about showing what our belief's are and people learning about each other, then I will post my complete, honest and uncensored beliefs, whether it is going to offend someone or not.

Also, my opinion is that I do not believe that I can change your opinion, because it is plainly obvious to me that I cannot, no matter what I said, it wouldn't matter, which is true isn't it? I don't see why that means my opinion has no place in the argument. Extremely opinionated people like me, are here to throw down alternatives, which is surely what holding a debate is all about, whether you agree with those alternatives or not.

It doesn't matter to me what people believe, because we're all just as stupid as each other for thinking that what we believe is actually correct. We have no capacity to know what the hell is going on, it's way above and beyond us, any of this. So I choose to ignore it and sit back and watch people who honestly believe that they know or at least have faith in one particular truth, because I find it extremely amuzing to observe human behaviour in general. We are all stupid, especially me, but that's another story! I just don't see what gives any of us the right to claim that what we believe in, is right, when surely, infact quite definitely, we are all as hopelessy wrong as each other.

Might I add, the way some of you talk is extremely condescending. Although it might just be me who feels that way ... no, actually some of you are just being ponces.

Originally posted by Edge

*Chucks some more petrol into the fire (yeah thats right, PETROL, only idiots say Gas!)

lol. i guess i cant say gas station anymore. "MoM! Where the petroluem stand?"

Gouldy, I think you need to use smaller print.

First you begin with:

Originally posted by gouldy

Firstly, I wasn't personally attacking anyone

Then you finish with:

Originally posted by gouldy

Might I add, the way some of you talk is extremely condescending. Although it might just be me who feels that way ... no, actually some of you are just being ponces.

Yeah, you're right ... you are being perfectly clear and there is no way to confuse what you are saying.

Carlosio -- That was EXCELLENTLY shared, thank you for being mature about it.

Oh, and Edge: [flush]

Ah, Real, TJ, I can see where you guys are coming from now. I've done my fair share of studies on Christianity, I've even read the bible, but I never really looked at it like that.

And TJ, same to you man. Cheers.

Also, I guess you may have missed it, but take a look at my first post on page four when you have the opportunity.

I'm a devoted Roman Catholic, and I trust 100% in my religion. But there is one thing that has always bothered (for lack of a better term) me. I've always wondered, what if there is no God, Jesus, or Heaven, then where would our souls end up when we die. Would we reincarnate into something else, or just...

I just wanted to share one of the reasons that I believe in our Lord, it gives me a sense of sucurity that I will end up somewhere and not just be "floating". It gives me a sense of sucurity.

lol. i guess i cant say gas station anymore. "MoM! Where the petroluem stand?"

lmao, made me chuckle...I'm glad to see i am of use in this thread afterall!

I guess none of us willl find out until the right time comes. I sure hope what i believe is what will really happen in the afterlife. I even believe in ghosts and stuff like that, but that doesnt assure me that its going to happen to me or anyone specificaly

[Oscar]

Originally posted by Jimmy Yoshi

I've always wondered, what if there is no God, Jesus, or Heaven, then where would our souls end up when we die. Would we reincarnate into something else, or just...

The soul will die along with the body, that's all. Nothing complicated.

now that i think about it that does make sense...