Did Jesus exist? Italian court to decide

Oh boy, here we go.

Originally posted by hyyyper
The ferry tales in the books of the Grim bros. also don't have a author, and are of all times

my comment wasn't in reference to the fact that they have an author. Ovbviously, someone wrote the gospels; matthew, mark, luke, and john to be precise. However, those who wrote them never originally wrote a fictional story. It didn't start out as one, while LOTR did, as we can see.

Who says jezus ever existed? Perhaps in another 2,000 people will include a fictional biography of someone in their 'new bible'

FYI, Jesus. There is little debate over whether or not Jesus existed, or for that matter that he did the things he did. The argument is whether or not he was the messiah, the son of God. Again, you're posing an irrelevant "what if" question. Those people in the future will be idiots, as they are following something that can be proven to have been manufactured. This is the issue here. No one can actually prove that Jesus is fictional.

So jezus was leading a cult that grew out of hand...

In a way, yes, christianity began as a cult, although it didn't get out of hand. It blossomed into a fully-fledged religion. Reason: The explanations offered were feasible, the proof reported was convincing.

Looks at the cults again, they often commit massive suicide if they aren't taken serious

Erm, i didn't say they commited suicide (aside from judas, jesus's betrayer) Each one was executed because of his beliefs. There's a substantial difference there.

The bible has also got stories from that appear in hindoeist and buddist scrolls, which are much older

And....

Also, which part of the bible are you talking about. It's a substantial document. Quotes please. Give me something to work with.

The only reason i say that is to show you that the Bible is more than a storybook (as you so affectionately refer to it)

[hyyyper]

and here we go again

Originally posted by Carlosio

Oh boy, here we go.

my comment wasn't in reference to the fact that they have an author. Ovbviously, someone wrote the gospels; matthew, mark, luke, and john to be precise. However, those who wrote them never originally wrote a fictional story. It didn't start out as one, while LOTR did, as we can see.

Writer's names can be forgotten in time, and so is the fact that it's fictional.

FYI, Jesus. There is little debate over whether or not Jesus existed, or for that matter that he did the things he did. The argument is whether or not he was the messiah, the son of God. Again, you're posing an irrelevant "what if" question. Those people in the future will be idiots, as they are following something that can be proven to have been manufactured. This is the issue here. No one can actually prove that Jesus is fictional.

i don't see how you can prove that jesus was a the son of god, i thought some carpenter banged his mother, who was even a virgin afterwards? then it would be more logical that god would be the mother

In a way, yes, christianity began as a cult, although it didn't get out of hand. It blossomed into a fully-fledged religion. Reason: The explanations offered were feasible, the proof reported was convincing.

Wrong word, my bad, i mean wildgrowth, and what proof of the existence of a heaven do you have, or that there's a god?

Erm, i didn't say they commited suicide (aside from judas, jesus's betrayer) Each one was executed because of his beliefs. There's a substantial difference there.

Suicide and death both kill you, there's no different in this matter

And....

Also, which part of the bible are you talking about. It's a substantial document. Quotes please. Give me something to work with.

The only reason i say that is to show you that the Bible is more than a storybook (as you so affectionately refer to it)

I dunno, i've never read the damn thing, but there are these thing on discovery and nat.graph that show parts for older texts that are completely the same, but with different names, and instead of the original gods, all of them are replaced with your so called 'one god'


ahh man, i love this

Its been proven (especially if you watch the discovery and National Geographic) that Jesus existed. What needs faith is the miracles he performed and the things He did.

Ok, i find it difficult to reason with someone that has no substance behind the points they are making. There is a big difference between execution and suicide. By being executed, the fdeciples became martyrs (people who die for what they believe) in comparison to those who commit suicide in order to gain attention.

I didn't try to prove jesus was the son of god, i was just saying that's where the argument lies. You said what proof was there that he existed, and there is a lot. I don't have to provide proff of heaven. It's not my job to make you believe. What proof is there of the big bang? It's a two way street, mate.

Your last point becomes irrelevant on the basis of lack of evidence. The new testament is different to any other religeous text due to it's astonishing reality. Much of what is contained withing it has been proved, geographically, archaeologically and through the census's taken. It's all there. I could do with someone else helping me here. I'm getting tired from typing so much.

I'm looking forward to hearing from Real and TC again too.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by Carlosio

Ok, i find it difficult to reason with someone that has no substance behind the points they are making. There is a big difference between execution and suicide. By being executed, the fdeciples became martyrs (people who die for what they believe) in comparison to those who commit suicide in order to gain attention.

I said that i did not mean in this case, of course there is a difference between suicide and execution, but here it's about dying for something you believe in, you think cultists where looking for attention, i think the same about jesus' pals

I didn't try to prove jesus was the son of god, i was just saying that's where the argument lies. You said what proof was there that he existed, and there is a lot. I don't have to provide proff of heaven. It's not my job to make you believe. What proof is there of the big bang? It's a two way street, mate.

I know there's evidence he existed, i never said he didn't, but did he hear a burning bush talking? if that ever happend here, the man in white jackets won't be far

Your last point becomes irrelevant on the basis of lack of evidence. The new testament is different to any other religeous text due to it's astonishing reality. Much of what is contained withing it has been proved, geographically, archaeologically and through the census's taken. It's all there. I could do with someone else helping me here. I'm getting tired from typing so much.

I'm talking about the old testament, the new came after jesus died.
the old one is 'stolen/borrowed' from the jews
And why would i be making these things up?

Hrm ... no response to the nonsense from me.

But Real, this reminds me -- I am going to be purchasing a digital recorder today -- sermons of mine will now be available on the web. More info to follow.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by TConwell

Hrm ... no response to the nonsense from me.

what nonsense?

very weak Tcon, i was hoping to get some discussion going, but throwing in the towel already . .

[Oscar]

oh no, sermons onine from tcon, the world is ending just kidding, I am having a field day today

Originally posted by Mai of the Fire

Oh, good! A religious debate! Just in time... I could really use some guidance right now.

Generally, I am a very religious person. Every time that I turn to God, I find answers and I find wisdom. However, while I was recently browsing through Google, I stumbled upon a very disturbing article. Most of the article is complete rubbish, asking questions like 'why doesn't god heal amputees' and such. I had a good laugh, but then I found this... (Click here to read article.) It was definitely not something that I expected to find in the Bible, and it has filled me with doubt. TConwell or Real, can you please put this into context? It was painful to read that there was so much sexism in the Bible.

Since hyyyper and Carlosio buried my post with their argument, I figured that I needed to point it out again. TCon, Real, can you help me out here?

Ill get you my own take on it hopefully in the next day or two, maybe late tonight ok girl?! I love when people actually ask for people to elaborate and to learn rather than to formulate their own opinions based on well...not the truth or without even reading or knowing the text.

All right then. Thanks in advance, Real.

I am just tired of trying to discuss things with perverbial brick walls. The evidence is there, accept it or not, it's your choice.

Wow. I just read the article that Mai mentioned, and it made me feel absolutely sickened. I have no 'context' reply for you, Mai, because I honestly can't explain it. That is very harsh stuff.

"As is true in all the churches of God's people, women should keep quiet in the church meetings. They are not allowed to speak, but they must yeild to the rules, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home. It is shameful for a woman to speak in the church meeting." (I Corinthians 14: 34-35)

What the hell was that? It's not even just being quoted out of context like many other verses have been. That is unbelievable. Reading this verse gives me a strong urge to rip it out of my Bible. That is absolutely disgraceful. I'm sorry that you had to read it, Mai. Jeez, that's harsh. That makes me pissed off enough, so I can only imagine what you girls must think of it.

Originally posted by cjd

Wow. I just read the article that Mai mentioned, and it made me feel absolutely sickened. I have no 'context' reply for you, Mai, because I honestly can't explain it. That is very harsh stuff.

"As is true in all the churches of God's people, women should keep quiet in the church meetings. They are not allowed to speak, but they must yeild to the rules, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home. It is shameful for a woman to speak in the church meeting." (I Corinthians 14: 34-35)

What the hell was that? It's not even just being quoted out of context like many other verses have been. That is unbelievable. Reading this verse gives me a strong urge to rip it out of my Bible. That is absolutely disgraceful. I'm sorry that you had to read it, Mai. Jeez, that's harsh. That makes me pissed off enough, so I can only imagine what you girls must think of it.

CJD,
For a professed Christian, your knowledge of scripture is ... welll ... lacking just a bit brother.

However, let me set you straight on a few things:

#1, consider the time this was written and a woman's role in the family, church, town, etc. (Mai -- hopefully that clears it out as if you consider the times it was written, it all becomes clear. what you find now is although women are not in the pulpit all that often, they ARE in charge of various things. At the bottom of this rant is the link to my church ... you will see my two leading staff members are ladies, doing jobs that ladies have done in churches for decades.)

Bacj to CJD ... This writing makes perfect sense, IF you can get beyond your own comprehension of how things should be if you were in charge.

#2, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY (ask your Pastor about this statement) ... "You either believe it all, or none of it."

However, that reference is in 1 Timothy as well ... since you are ripping things out of your Bible you might want to grab that too. But, perhaps the church who has an openly homosexual Pastor in Dallas has a few things torn out of his Bible as well ... so I guess that is ok then. (Not.)

1 Timothy 1:11-15
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing?????????if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Aaaaaaaanyway .... Sermon from tomorrow's Easter service will be up at www.bbcmarbury.com sometime late tomorrow.

Originally posted by TConwell


CJD,
For a professed Christian, your knowledge of scripture is a bit ... weak.

Yeah, I know it is. I just started becoming Christian in spring of 2003 (not declared yet, because I really don't want to do so until I'm sure that I'm ready), and I really have just started delving into the scripture. I'm sorry if I sounded freaked out... I had just heard that the Bible is supposed to be perfect, so it was one heck of a shock to read that. Thanks for posting it, Mai... I never would have known it was there.

PRAISE GOD ON BEING NEW TO THE WORD!
Now, get in it my friend! ))))

I love ya man, no harm or foul meant my brother.

The part about being silent in church is really not what is bothersome to me. After all, men generally keep silent in church and learn from the pastor in quiet diligence as well. What is really bothering me is the verse in 1st Timothy where it says "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man." That really doesn't seem fair to me. I value my freedom and independence very much.

Unlike cjd, I'm not new to the Bible, though. I was raised a Christian, and I have always been very happy with the word in my life. I always loved it because the concepts of equality, compassion, love, and peace, concepts that the world needs so much right now, were so profound. But now I see this verse, and it seems to go against everything that Jesus taught. It seems very contradictory and generally unfair to me.

"Saved through childbearing?" Yes, that was fine back in the Roman times when every female was either a little girl, married with children, or widowed. But what about now? We are business owners, politicians, teachers, and we have lives outside of marriage. The way that this verse puts it, it sounds like it is some sort of a requirement for us to bear children, as payment for Eve's temptation. This is the nature of what I am asking about... things have changed drastically, and I would like to know whether I should take these verses seriously or not. It was just kind of an eye-opener for me to read such things.

Have you talked to God at all on this matter? I could give you an answer Mai, but what you need is a Word from Him of understanding. Something that you can understand because it means something to you. That would be the first thing I would suggest. However, your suggestion about childbearing for righteousness, well, again, think of the times. I mean, I could give you a theological seminary answer, but I assure you I would lose someone in translation and have to explain it 50 times. My first recommendation would be to ask the Lord about this, ask Him to explain it you ... that is how I now have such a deep understanding of my own beliefs now.

And oh -- http://www.bbcmarbury.com/Sermons.htm I got it working ya'll!

Originally posted by TConwell

Originally posted by cjd

Wow. I just read the article that Mai mentioned, and it made me feel absolutely sickened. I have no 'context' reply for you, Mai, because I honestly can't explain it. That is very harsh stuff.

"As is true in all the churches of God's people, women should keep quiet in the church meetings. They are not allowed to speak, but they must yeild to the rules, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home. It is shameful for a woman to speak in the church meeting." (I Corinthians 14: 34-35)

What the hell was that? It's not even just being quoted out of context like many other verses have been. That is unbelievable. Reading this verse gives me a strong urge to rip it out of my Bible. That is absolutely disgraceful. I'm sorry that you had to read it, Mai. Jeez, that's harsh. That makes me pissed off enough, so I can only imagine what you girls must think of it.

CJD,
For a professed Christian, your knowledge of scripture is ... welll ... lacking just a bit brother.

However, let me set you straight on a few things:

#1, consider the time this was written and a woman's role in the family, church, town, etc. (Mai -- hopefully that clears it out as if you consider the times it was written, it all becomes clear. what you find now is although women are not in the pulpit all that often, they ARE in charge of various things. At the bottom of this rant is the link to my church ... you will see my two leading staff members are ladies, doing jobs that ladies have done in churches for decades.)

Bacj to CJD ... This writing makes perfect sense, IF you can get beyond your own comprehension of how things should be if you were in charge.

#2, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY (ask your Pastor about this statement) ... "You either believe it all, or none of it."

However, that reference is in 1 Timothy as well ... since you are ripping things out of your Bible you might want to grab that too. But, perhaps the church who has an openly homosexual Pastor in Dallas has a few things torn out of his Bible as well ... so I guess that is ok then. (Not.)

1 Timothy 1:11-15
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing?????????if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Aaaaaaaanyway .... Sermon from tomorrow's Easter service will be up at www.bbcmarbury.com sometime late tomorrow.

I agree with what you said. This is refering to the times of Jesus Christ, not now. Remember, this happened 2000 years ago.

One of the biggest mysteries in the Bible concerns the timing of Jesus Christ's return to earth. Although the Bible tells us no one knows the hour nor the day when the Lord will return, the Bible is filled with many indicators or conditions we can use to assess how close we may be to the season of His return.

As you are about to read, many of the conditions spoken of in Bible prophecy which would seem to indicate Christ's return is coming in the not-too-distant future are clearly visible in the world today, reminding us He could come at any moment!

The signs are as follows:

The Gospel will be preached in all the world:
Matthew 24:14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

There will be a mixture of believers and false believers within the Church body:
Matthew 13:24-30: Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

There will be scoffers:
The Bible tells us one of the key signs of the end times will be people doubting the return of Christ will ever happen.

2nd Peter 3:3-4: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Humanity will be able to cross the globe rapidly and science will be advancing:
Daniel 12:4: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Perilous times will come for mankind:
2nd Timothy 3:1: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Mankind will deny God once flooded the earth:
2nd Peter 3:5-6: For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

The earth will be swimming in a sea of violence:
As it was in the days of Noah (Luke 17:26), so it shall be at the end. How was the earth in Noah's time?

Look no further than Genesis 6:11: The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

There will be warfare all over the globe:
Mark 13:8: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

Mankind will have the capability to destroy all life on the planet:
Unique to our generation, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled prior to the invention of weapons of mass destruction such as the nuclear bomb. Matthew 24: 22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Deadly diseases will be rampant:
Matthew 24:7: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Famines will be common:
Matthew 24:7: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Earthquakes will be occurring globally:
Matthew 24:7: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

There will be violent weather:
Luke 21:25- And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Children will be disobedient and rebellious:
2nd Timothy 3:2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Christians and Jews will be hated for their faith in and connection with Christ:
Luke 21:17: And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Mankind will be in a state of moral decay:
2nd Timothy 3:2-5: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Religious cults will flourish:
2nd Peter 2:1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

There will be progress made toward a global government:
The European Union, the revived Roman Empire, is alive today and moving steadily toward the fulfillment of this prophecy as seen in Daniel 7: 23: "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces." The Antichrist who will lead this world government (after the rapture of the Christian Church takes place) will be a leader from the European Union as seen in Daniel 9:26. He will be of the people who destroyed the city of Jerusalem and its sanctuary in AD 70, the Romans.

The world will be desperately seeking peace:
1st Thessalonians 5:3: For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Global means of communication will exist:

We know this because the book of Revelation teaches us the entire world will see several events. This is unique to our generation as only recently in mankind's history have these technologies been present.

Revelation 11:9: And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

In the last days, fallen angels will mingle with mankind:
I know this one is going to be controversial, but there is a scriptural basis for this, as seen in Luke 17:26: And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

A careful examination of what was going on in Noah's day seems to suggest fallen angels were somehow mingling with mankind.

Genesis 6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

If so, one of God's motives in destroying mankind at the flood may have been Satan and his fallen angels, in an attempt to save themselves from His judgment, were trying to taint the bloodline that would lead to the birth of Christ.

We find Noah was spared from destruction for three reasons as seen in Genesis 6:9. They are as follows:

1) Noah was a just man.

2) Noah was perfect in his generations (note this reference to his bloodline being pure).

3) Noah walked with God.

There is potentially more to the numerous UFO sightings and alien abduction stories in the news today than we have ever imagined!

Israel will exist as a nation in the latter days:
Read Ezekiel 37:1-14 to see this prophecy, which was fulfilled in 1948.

Israel's birth as a nation will have happened in one day:
Fulfilled on May 14, 1948 as seen in Isaiah 66:8: "Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?"

Israel will be in possession of Jerusalem (has been since 1967):

This happened as a result of the Six-Day War in 1967. The capture of Jerusalem was critical from a prophetic standpoint as the Antichrist will someday enter a rebuilt Holy Temple that will be standing in Jerusalem at the midpoint of the Tribulation Period where he will declare himself to be God. This event, referred to by most as the abomination of desolation, is documented in Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15.

Israel will be surrounded on every side by enemies:
Psalms 83:4: They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

The possession of Jerusalem will be the source of international conflict:
Is this happening today or what? It's a HUGE sign to us! Zechariah 12:3: And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.


Christians will be lukewarm in their faith:
In Christ's address to the seven churches, He says in Revelation 3:15: I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

Many will claim to be Christ:
Matthew 24:5: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

False Christs and false prophets will be very effective in the art of deception:
Matthew 24:24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

There will be signs in the heavens:
Luke 21:25: And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Sexual immorality will abound:
Jude 1:18: How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Idolatry will be common:
Revelation 9:20: And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Many Christians and church doctrines will depart from the faith:
1st Timothy 4:1: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Mankind's state of rebellion will be so great, the coming of Christ will catch them completely off-guard:
Luke 21:35: For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Homosexuality will be flaunted:
Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

This is also spoken of in Luke 17:28- 30: "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed."

Although homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God, all sin is! I bring up this point because many Christians treat homosexuality as if it is the most unforgivable sin of all. Jesus Christ forgives all sins and we, His followers, should be reaching out to these people with love in our hearts that they might be saved! Homosexuality is not an unpardonable sin any more than any other sin is!

Many will rejoice in their unrighteousness:
2nd Thessalonians 2: 12: "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

These people, according to 2nd Thessalonians 2:11, will be subject to believing the lie the Antichrist will present to the world in the aftermath of the Rapture of the Church, leading many of them to eternal damnation. God will allow them to be deceived, it seems, as a reward for their bold defiance of Him. What a frightening thought!

Many will begin to understand Bible prophecy and will start warning the world the return of Jesus Christ is near:
Acts 2:17-18: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Aliyah will be taking place:
What is Aliyah? Aliyah is the Hebrew word used to describe the physical return of the Jewish people, the children of Israel, to their ancient Promised Land, Zion, from abroad.

In Scripture, God promised He would bring the Jews (descendants of Abraham) back to their Promised Land from all the nations of the world where He had scattered them! It is happening even as you read these words.

Ezekiel 36:24: For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

39. There will be signs Earth's environment is in trouble:

Romans 8:21-23: Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

40. Technology will exist capable of tracking the world's population and their finances:

Revelation 13:16-17: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

41. The capability will exist for an army of 200 million soldiers to be formed:

In Revelation 9:16, John sees a specific number of soldiers/"horsemen" preparing for or entering into war: And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

Estimates of the total human population of Earth during Christ's day typically vary between 100 to 400 million people. In 2004, the CIA determined China has an estimated 208,143,352 in its population alone fit for military service.

42. Drug use will be rampant:

Revelation 9:21: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

The original Greek for the word 'sorceries' is pharmakeia {far-mak-i'-ah}. It means the use or the administering of drugs OR sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it.

43. Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. (2nd Timothy 3:13)

One doesn't have to think too hard to realize this prophecy is being dramatically fulfilled in our times. Upon reading this, close your eyes for a moment and think of how many people you know (or have heard of from reputable sources) who seem to be evil to the core! Similarly, think of how many people you know who have fallen victim to frauds and scams perpetrated by seducers (deceivers/imposters). The world today seems full of both with no letup in sight.

This is for those that are not sure of their religion or faith. I am a devout baptist and proud of it. If you want to accept Christ, reply-

Nick

PS- This does go along with the topic too.

Very interesting about the prophecies... great post, nicke.

My best friend had a near-death experience when she was seven, which has been the backbone of her faith ever since. She tells me that she was experiencing bliss and enlightment, even though her arm was being severed in the physical world. One of the things she remembers about her experience very well, and reminds me of, is hearing a voice say that "the end times are near." I believe it. As shown in the last post, the signs are all around us.


TConwell, about finding an answer, I will do so. God has already spoken to me through my dreams before. This is one of the things that makes me believe so much. I can feel him. Here is a description of what happened...

About two years ago, I was truly reading the Bible on my own for the first time. I had been raised in a christian family, and heard about how much Jesus loved me, and learned the classic tales and such, but I had never really delved deeply into understanding. As I read about the sins of humankind, and remembered my past, I began to feel unclean. I remembered some of the little things that I had passed off as nothing, and felt horrible for the bad things that I had done. I wondered if I was truly worthy of such grace and everlasting love. These feelings held me for several days. Then, in a dream, I got my answer...

[dream]I was at Cedar Point during a Halloween event. Everything around me was dark, scary, and creepy. The people walking by me were not aware... they were wandering through the darkness with their heads down and shadow surrounding them, apparently in a trance of some sort. I looked at the faces and saw many of my closest friends among them. The path was very crowded, as if millions of people were in the park. Very few people were not in the darkness. It seemed like only one in hundreds look normal. As I looked across the path, I saw that my best friend, Kristen was one of the people who looked normal. Still, I was very confused. I didn't know what was happaning. Then, there was a sudden blinding light. I looked to see where it was from, and saw a woman on the path ahead who was bathed in light. As I moved closer, I saw that she was handing out baskets of fruit and bread to the people who were walking by, shaking their hand, and saying "May you be blessed" to each of them. There was no pile of baskets... they were appearing out of thin air each time she handed one out. I approached. As I came closer to the light, I realized that the shadows around the people were growing darker and darker. So was I. The closer I got, the darker I felt. Finally, I arrived where the woman was standing. I reached out, expecting to recieve a basket and the "May you be blessed" message with it, as had everyone else who walked by. I reached my hand out. She reached her hand out, and it met mine. She held my hand tightly, and said "Rejoice, Carrie, for you are blessed." [/dream] I am fairly certain that this was the voice of God telling me that I am indeed worthy, and that I am headed down the correct paths in life.


BTW, Happy Easter, everyone! It's the third day, and he is arisen!

Originally posted by Mai of the Fire

Very interesting about the prophecies... great post, nicke.

My best friend had a near-death experience when she was seven, which has been the backbone of her faith ever since. She tells me that she was experiencing bliss and enlightment, even though her arm was being severed in the physical world. One of the things she remembers about her experience very well, and reminds me of, is hearing a voice say that "the end times are near." I believe it. As shown in the last post, the signs are all around us.


TConwell, about finding an answer, I will do so. God has already spoken to me through my dreams before. This is one of the things that makes me believe so much. I can feel him. Here is a description of what happened...

About two years ago, I was truly reading the Bible on my own for the first time. I had been raised in a christian family, and heard about how much Jesus loved me, and learned the classic tales and such, but I had never really delved deeply into understanding. As I read about the sins of humankind, and remembered my past, I began to feel unclean. I remembered some of the little things that I had passed off as nothing, and felt horrible for the bad things that I had done. I wondered if I was truly worthy of such grace and everlasting love. These feelings held me for several days. Then, in a dream, I got my answer...

[dream]I was at Cedar Point during a Halloween event. Everything around me was dark, scary, and creepy. The people walking by me were not aware... they were wandering through the darkness with their heads down and shadow surrounding them, apparently in a trance of some sort. I looked at the faces and saw many of my closest friends among them. The path was very crowded, as if millions of people were in the park. Very few people were not in the darkness. It seemed like only one in hundreds look normal. As I looked across the path, I saw that my best friend, Kristen was one of the people who looked normal. Still, I was very confused. I didn't know what was happaning. Then, there was a sudden blinding light. I looked to see where it was from, and saw a woman on the path ahead who was bathed in light. As I moved closer, I saw that she was handing out baskets of fruit and bread to the people who were walking by, shaking their hand, and saying "May you be blessed" to each of them. There was no pile of baskets... they were appearing out of thin air each time she handed one out. I approached. As I came closer to the light, I realized that the shadows around the people were growing darker and darker. So was I. The closer I got, the darker I felt. Finally, I arrived where the woman was standing. I reached out, expecting to recieve a basket and the "May you be blessed" message with it, as had everyone else who walked by. I reached my hand out. She reached her hand out, and it met mine. She held my hand tightly, and said "Rejoice, Carrie, for you are blessed." [/dream] I am fairly certain that this was the voice of God telling me that I am indeed worthy, and that I am headed down the correct paths in life.


BTW, Happy Easter, everyone! It's the third day, and he is arisen!

Yeah! That is wonderful. I live right in sandisky, ohio. I am glad that you have God. Any questions needed to be answered, ask me..

Nick

PS- Happy Easter!

Sounds alot like youve been blessed with a vision - something very, very fortunate to have.

As for end time events, its hard to say with complete certaintity if we are truely in them or not. For centuries people have thought we were based on translations. However, you wont know when the end times are till they are over because thats the only way to know.

Prophecy isnt meant to be figured out - its meant to be fullfilled and it has to happen first so you can look back and see the fullfillments.

Plus, we are supposed to live each and every day like it were our last. If there was some defining moment that said "You are in the end times" that would provoke people to change but not with the right heart. If people dont want to live for God now but Tuesday a voice said "The end times are hear" and everyone switched, did they switch because they chose to love God? No, of course not. God wants us to love Him wholly and completely without any other sort of influence. Free will. If we knew the end times for sure or had dates set down for His triumphant return free will would be tampered with. People would sin and sin up untill the near end then ask for His forgivness. Of course, you still need a true heart when you ask for that but it doesnt follow in Gods nature.

Then again, Gods nature really isnt that well laid out too. Its just my theory. Live for God 100% all day every day and walk where He wants you to walk. Dont worry about end times. He will take care of that. We have more important tasks here too do.


Im from the Toledo area too btw. Northwest Ohio up in here! Ill read that article later on Easter Sunday.

Originally posted by Mai of the Fire
"Saved through childbearing?" Yes, that was fine back in the Roman times when every female was either a little girl, married with children, or widowed. But what about now? We are business owners, politicians, teachers, and we have lives outside of marriage. The way that this verse puts it, it sounds like it is some sort of a requirement for us to bear children, as payment for Eve's temptation. This is the nature of what I am asking about... things have changed drastically, and I would like to know whether I should take these verses seriously or not. It was just kind of an eye-opener for me to read such things.

Im not against women having careers, jobs, etc outside of marraige. However, I have known and have heard many studies on women who have chose the whole "womans movement" side of things where there is this huge need to go out, be as good as a man and acheive the same goals as a man. However, the studies prove that a troubly trend is emerging.

Most women who follow these career paths do it alone. They usually are told (by other powerful women) that it cant be done with a husband and a family because it requires too many resources. That you need total focus and that will only take away from it.

It falls right in line with the worlds view that in order to have a fullfilling life you have to be successful and more specifically - with a career. This couldnt be further from the truth.


One of the studies I heard and read about interviewed and followed many women in the process and they had been successful business women being "independant" but had failed to have a family or a husband and those who did found that their relationship severely lacked. Most said they would give it all up to go back and take a different route. They said acheiving all they did was great but they had nothing to show for it. They had nothing their their hearts really desired.


Now, Im not going to say "Men are supposed to do this, Women this" But God did build Man and Woman for specific jobs in life. I feel that some trade rolls in a given situation but for the most part, Men were created and then told to be the breadwinner of the household and to have rule over it and that women are the caretakes, lovers and support. Isnt it any wonder that in most houses the mom is the one the kids run too in most cases? Why? There is a natural aura to women that they just love. They do nothing else better than to love IMO. They make men look foolish sometimes in our attempts to love because women are so much better at it.


Alot of this though is just the world views that have been pressed on you. Theyve told you that being submissive (which I might add - isnt like being a slave) is a horrible thing. But remember, while you may be submissive to a husband, he is supposed to be submissive to God and to treat you like God would treat him or you. If he doesnt, its abuse of scripture.

Youve also been told that in order to be sucessful as a women you cant be a housewife. You probably shouldnt have families unless you feel you can take on the burden of managing a career, kids, husband and household.


Am I against women in careers? No. My girlfriend is pursueing what she loves right now. However, through her mother I have witnessed what happens when a women pursues her career objectives like that of a man. The family suffers. Her parents divorced. She has little to no relationship with any of the 4 children she has. They basically exist and she feeds them, clothes them and sometimes tends to them. They are sometimes left for hours unattended while mother is out doing things for her career. They are forced to grow up and be completely self sufficient by the age of nearly 10-12. My girlfriend lost many years of her childhood. She saw how her mother barely did anything to raise her kids and felt compelled to take on responsibility of caring and loving her siblings in ways her mother didnt.

Say a kid got hurt, wanted mother for some love and affection. Did they get it? No. Mom was too busy. Who had to grow up in order to take moms place? My girlfriend.


Is that right? My girlfriend understands the Bible and knows that a career isnt wrong but she also realizes that people are far more important. Shes said that once I can support her she will do whatever she wants for fun and maybe as a job if we both have the time but said that never will she let it get between her and I or our kids if we so choose to have any after we get married. Shes seen first hand the effects of the womans movement of power and greed to "take back" so to speak the corporate land.

Godly men like myself or TJ dont look at the world as though "we do the work because we are better" or "women shouldnt work because its not their place". No no no.


Search out your heart. What brings you joy? I think of all the different things that men and women are famous for individually, I dont think I have ever known a single woman of God who didnt not absolutly love from the deepest resesses of their heart to just serve. Women were built to serve and serve on levels that men cannot compete. Its a trait I love about women and I love to lift up women who give and give with a heart that is pure and affectionate. I dont ever look at it as "its your duty" but rather that they are following God and giving the glory right back to him.

God did design man and women with specific ideas in mind. He did say that men would be primary breadwinners and that we would work by the sweat of our brow because of Adam and Eve. I just think most women are made to do certain things better than a man and vice versa. Its when you acknowledge the differences of men and women and celebrate it and glorify it in Gods name that you then see how awesome life can be.



We live in sad times because men do not respect women and their abilities (which has led to this movement) and as a result, women do not respect men and their abilities. To which we have seen both sexes completely fall apart in their identities and as a result, divorce, lonliness, greed and sexism has grown to all time highs.

It has to stop. Respect has to go both ways. I know that my girlfriend is a much better sympathizer and more caring than I. I still love and care but it comes a little harder to me than it does for her. She can pick up a crying child and silence it immediatly with love. Me? Im getting better but no where near the ability she has built into her. Its those types of things which I respect. Thats noble and worthy of praise. Having a job of independance? Not really. Its just a job. Its here today and gone tomorrow.


Keep reading that Bible Mai and stay in constant prayer. He will reveal His will for you and the type of life He desires for you. I promise you 110% when you do see it and you do follow, you will not be disappointed.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by TConwell

I am just tired of trying to discuss things with perverbial brick walls. The evidence is there, accept it or not, it's your choice.

evidence, yeah right...you tell me what evidence there is god exists