Cedar Fair buys Paramount Parks!!!

It's official.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060522/nym129.html?.v=39

Maybe B&M will make an appearance at a Paramount park again.[approve]

I wonder if they will change their names....

I am sure the Paramount name will go away. From a capacity standpoint, it will be nice to see the Paramount parks running all the coasters at full capacity again. Maybe even a few of the Beast's trims will go away.

One can only hope.[approve]

[Brtnboarder495]

I'd be suprised if they didn't change the Paramount name on the parks, but then again look at Dell and Alienware ...

[hyyyper]

my guessing is that i'll be like Carowinds, and King's Island, perhaps the name of the state where the park is in in front of it.

drrr of course they will change their names! man i am so excited....PKI or now KI is my home park.....CF kicks ass

How is this off topic disscusion?

[Brtnboarder495]

Because it doesn't fall under any other subject topic on the site ...

Woot, sounds like fun i hoope they put more great rides in the park. And i hope my home park they make MCMB better to ride then today its rough.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by Brtnboarder495

Because it doesn't fall under any other subject topic on the site ...

IMO real coasters should be read as real coasters and parks

I've been without the internet for a few days now, so I just found out about this. Here is what I wrote on a Canada's Wonderland forum;
-----

Not being on the internet for 2 or 3 days, I just read about all of this.

When I first heard about Cedar Fair being interested in the Paramount parks last week, I started to get kind of worried. Here is my thoughts on this entire situation.

First I will get out my good thoughts on the situation. For coaster and ride enthusiasts, Cedar Fair will most likely not disappoint guests in terms of new rides and roller coasters.

I do think that bigger rides could be built at Wonderland. I'm not really saying bigger as in height and area, but funner and better quality rides. I think a B&M would be quite reasonable and possible considering a lot of their coasters are not more than 150 feet tall and not even as forceful at Vortex.

Whatever regulations were used to build Vortex, Top Gun, Drop Zone etc are most likely still around and hardly changed, I don't see why one of the safest roller coaster manufacturers in the business would be denied a ride here.

If Cedar Fair also did any sort of rehab work at the park, maybe the mountain would have all of its water falls turned back on. And I also think that the ride operations staff would see an improvement. Not that they were bad before, but alot of the ride ops don't get the trains and ride cycling fast enough to be considered efficient. **coughwildbeaststackingcough**

Also, just like Six Flags Worlds of Adventure, perhabs Paramount Canada's Wonderland will go back to the original name, Canada's Wonderland.

And now for some of my bad thoughts on the situation.

In my opinion, Wonderland is one of the best looking parks around. Wonderland might not have the best rides and coasters, but the landscaping is very beautiful. There is an abundance of large trees, lots of flowers, streams still flowing through the park, all the walkways are hand layed brick etc etc. The ecology workers do a very excellent job at keeping the park very clean and nice looking. The grass under ALL the rides, even in places where no one can see, is always kept cut. Sometimes the grass looks better than some golf courses.

Now, look at the Cedar Fair parks. The majority of additions made to the parks while under Cedar Fair control do not look the best. Almost always trees are cut down, greenspace erased and only to be replaced by an ugly concrete slab. Even Cedar Point, Cedar Fair's premier park suffers from the greenery eraser and concrete slab syndrom. I think it would be very sad if Cedar Fair did not follow suit with future additions with the rest of the park.

Another thing that worries me is the identity and history of the park. Just look at Dorney Park or Knott's Berry Farm. Both of those parks were established well before 1950 (Dorney even before 1900), yet Cedar Fair has somehow manage to strip alot of their history and identity away. I know Wonderland cannot even begin to compare with a park that is over 100 years old, however alot of the buildings and rides at Wonderland are still standing from the opening years. It would be sad to see some of the original things were taken out or changed beyond recognition. One example of this already happening at Wonderland (hopefully it will stop), was how Zumba Flume was replaced by Top Gun. A classic log flume that even an extremely crappy park like Six Flags Darien Lake has. Orbiter is another example.

[/rant]

Umm..yeah, thats all I can think of right now. It should be interesting how the park changes, hopefully for the better!

[:(]

Where is all this concrete slabbing at at Cedar Fair parks?

Have any of you walked around CF parks and noticed the care taken in flowers, shrubs and trees?



But last time I checked every place there isnt concrete at CP theres beautiful trees, shrubs and flowers. If you want, next time I go Ill take pictures everywhere I see them. I think most people are so captivated by the coasters and the sights that they dont take time to look at the greenery. I have noticed many rare types of flowers and bushes while walking there and I bet if the landscaping department that I see hard at work saw these attitudes their efforts would feel all for none.

Cedar Point is a really bad example. You guys know how many people walk through those gates every day. The only feesible way to get that many people from point A to point B easily is how its set up.

However, I thought Dorney was gorgeous. It was not a huge concrete slab at all. Its usually more about location + # of guests than it is "We want concrete". I wish all this worrying about turning the parks into Paramounts Slab-o-concrete would stop. Its not an issue.

Originally posted by Canadmos

One example of this already happening at Wonderland (hopefully it will stop), was how Zumba Flume was replaced by Top Gun. A classic log flume that even an extremely crappy park like Six Flags Darien Lake has.

Dude, Chris. Does the log flume or Top Gun use the space better and bring in the crowds better..... Its all about business buddy....

I didn't even know there used to be a flume called Zumba Flume where Top Gun is...

Although Canada's Wonderland is prettier than your average Six Flags park, I'd hardly compare it to the likes of Alton Towers, Europa Park, Busch Gardens Williamsburg, or even the old Opryland. I agree that it should keep as much of its beauty as possible, but I'll take a dynamic new ride over the saving of a shrub any day.

My biggest hopes for Wonderland after CF takes over: [1] do something with the woodies! Three years ago when I was there, they ALL ran slow and rough. [2] B&M. 'nuff said [3] Don't mess with Vortex. At all. It's one of the most intense, interesting, and exciting suspended coasters in the world. I even rank it above Big Bad Wolf, even though it's shorter and lacks the village effect.

Yea, vortex is awesome.

I actually hope they get rid of some of their new crappy rides, like the italian job. i know they probably won't, but if they took it out then they could use that space for a new coaster and extend it out onto that pond beside it. That would be pretty cool.

[coolbeans326]

Where is all this concrete slabbing at at Cedar Fair parks?

Have any of you walked around CF parks and noticed the care taken in flowers, shrubs and trees?

If you've been to knotts, or dorney (and I know you've been to dorney) it's pretty noticeable. ALthough Dorney does have slightly better landscaping than knotts... but if you go to Knotts... all of it is cement, cement, cement. Every new addition means just more sement.
Lets look at Silver Bullet. Used to have a beautiful lake that had a boat ride go around, a water show in the middle, and a train go around the outside. Well once the new ride came in, the water show was sure to go (and no one cared simply because it was not that interesting.) But the train was still suppose to have its original path, and the boat was suppose to have its original path, and the lake was suppose to have its original boundaries.... instead...... they cemented up half the lake. Now the boat has a 20 second ride around this small ass island, and the train now has its journey cut in half by taking the path that the boat was originally suppose to go. In response to this, there is now five more feet of concrete extending out towards the helix of silver bullet, not even 1/4 of the lake is there any more, and there is just cement everywhere. On top of that, there used to be grass seperating the path along the silver bullet helix path and the stage coach, now its all cement, even though it looks like a place that should have grass. Grass grass grass.
Along with that.... Knotts ripped out a quality ghost town attraction to make way for a prototype S&S swing shot, they just added double the cement, and that area basically lost half of the atmosphere it once had there, the cement is still there with the replacement of the prototype S&S screaming swing. And also, knotts used to have Wind Jammer, which really pulled the whole board walk look together with the ponds underneath the ride, and the boat, and everything. When they ripped that out, they put in Xcelerator which now has a huge slab of concrete running along the entire length of it. So its cement, cement, cement EVERYWHERE for knotts, at least, and you should expect the same for future parks, to.o

You use such a bad example - possibly worse than CP.

Why? Look at Knotts location. I made it clear that location is the reason for alot of the concrete slabbing. Knotts is located in Cali in an area that very flat and its pretty much squished between major streets.

So you ask, whats that matter? It matters alot. Without natural topography and in a very limited space, your only choice is to use concrete to create wider pathways than to create narrow ones with some nice landscaping. Knotts is just not a valid argument because of that.


Look at any park that isnt squished or has natural topography.

Dorney - not the concrete slab at all. I was there last year.
Hershey - Not at ALL! But, its too hilly otherwise. It just wouldnt work at all.
Holiday World - same deal - too hilly.
SFMM - even there, while theres alot of real estate, theres also alot of natural trees and nature because of the hill.

When you dont have one of those two things "generally" you will just get concrete everywhere because its cheap and easy. But if you have one of those, "generally" you will get better results because its harder to level off large areas for concrete and its just as hard to avoid doing that if your area is limited and you are trying to put in as many rides as possible. With new rides you need areas to walk and they know more about how they want you to walk than you do. They study the way we walk around the parks as much as they study the rides they put in. Its all part of very intensive planning.


But I was ready because I knew someone would use Knotts as an argument and its just a poor one. You just wont find a park on flat land with limited space trying to install rides that will have excellent landscaping. Its not going to happen.

Why? Look at Knotts location. I made it clear that location is the reason for alot of the concrete slabbing. Knotts is located in Cali in an area that very flat and its pretty much squished between major streets.

Nevermind the fact that it was that way the first few years CF ran the park..... and all those cement slabs were added do to CF expansions within the last 6 years[;)]

With new rides you need areas to walk and they know more about how they want you to walk than you do. They study the way we walk around the parks as much as they study the rides they put in. Its all part of very intensive planning.

I also find that generally people care less about walking if there is something to look at...
like when everything about the park is an enjoyment. Knotts used to be this way before CF started concrete slabbing everything up. It has nothing to do with "walking around the park" but more as a lack of aesthetical design. See, where as parks like Disney, or Universal, or Anhieser Busch do a little more actual designing besides the ride itself, CF lets the roller coaster company do the main bulk of the design and often times flop in a generic theme with little to no thought put into it. The old knotts magagement, on the other hand, was able to pull off making thier rides and the area around it look nice, even if it wasn't extremely high budgeted like a Disney or Universal attraction might be, its just to bad that old management was going under. The only rides that CF did right at Knotts would be Perilous Plunge and Riptide, except Perilous Plunge is a huge waste of a ride (but it looks nice in its area) and Riptide basically just took the place of Hammerhead, and it carries the same look, just slight variation in ride, which I like better. The fact is Knotts could still be a nice place to wonder around, but because of the current management's lack of something or another they choose not to plant grass where they can, or build a ride that helps carry the theme of the area a little better, or keep a lake how they intend it to be, instead its just cement with good rides, but nothing really to brag about.

But I was ready because I knew someone would use Knotts as an argument and its just a poor one. You just wont find a park on flat land with limited space trying to install rides that will have excellent landscaping. Its not going to happen

Final statement... if you knew knotts before CF, you would know that its not a poor argument. They were doing it right pre-CF, and the higher budget that came with the take over should mean that they do it better with CF.[;)]

i dont care what any of u say..knotts is a good park with grea rides...and its my home park......lolz...

^^Its still an invalid argument. Before CF there were not as many rides...with more space to landscape. Universal, Disney and Busch are not good places to compare too because they have WAY more room to work with than Knotts. Plus, their budgets are probably still higher than Cedar Fairs.

I said, as you add rides the need for not only space for queue comes up but also space to walk. Plus, with new rides means more people. With more people means a need for more area to put those people.


Its a matter of numbers here. You cant have a park with a ton of rides in a small space and expect narrower walking areas with more landscaping. you will end up cramming people into areas they shouldnt be and in the end make navigating the park very frustrating. Ive seen pictures from before CF and it was a much more quaint park but you have a choice...no rides with more landscaping or more rides with less.

You are telling me that within this space http://tinyurl.com/kxcou that its feesible to expand within the park and not add larger walking areas and larger lanes to walk in without making it confusin? Ha. Come on now.


Like I said before. Compare parks that have themeing and nicely landscaped areas to parks that dont. There is a direct relation to space / money / # of rides.


Its really just simple planning.

[coolbeans326]

I said, as you add rides the need for not only space for queue comes up but also space to walk. Plus, with new rides means more people. With more people means a need for more area to put those people.

I'll take pictures next time I go to specifically illustrate to you what I'm talking about. I still think they could do a lot more to better the park.
Anyways... being flat only helps with cementing it up, if all the paramount parks are hilly, they shouldn't worry to much.

so dorney isnt all concrete cause my mom is really big into clean parks and if its dirty she wont go and apprently alot of concrete is dirty? so for my mom to like it there has to be like trees and flowers is there that at dorney? if not i can kiss my trip there this summer good bye

[coolbeans326]

^ concrete has nothing to do with being dirty.. it's just ugly to look at when its all over the place. All CF parks are generally clean, even knotts.[;)]

Its just that alot of the CF parks are located in stupidly flat areas.

And the two large ones, Knotts and CP, they draw alot of people. So theres another problem - moving people around.


Cool - I dont doubt they could do better. Everyone could do better, even HW or Hershey and I think those are two of the most beautiful parks Ive seen.