Quick help needed - woodies questions!

Hey guys. I'm finishing a diploma work about woodies and have a few things I'm not quite sure about. Any help is highly appreciated, and, if any possible, please post sources (=prove)!

1. Did I get that right that on steelies, the whole wheel assembly is constantly in contact with the rails (well, it can't be else because of the tubular track); but on woodies, there's a little space between the lower running rails and the underfriction wheels (so these are only in contact with the track while there's airtime)? Or is that BS?

2. Can we generalize that woodies are cheaper than comparable steelies? Voyage, which is huge, cost just 6.5 Million, bigger CCI's around 4, GCI's don't appear to be expensive. Just the Intamin Prefabs are in the luxus steelie range (=B&M level; 22 Mio Euro for Colossos). Can you list some woodie / steelie prizes you know, if possible also for manufacturers that are not mentioned above?

3. This may be a difficult one. The RCCA claims to be the first manufacturer to prefabricate track and support pieces. http://www.rcca.com/RCCA/manufacturing.html
Ok, now I was wondering - has that method become a standard after it was introduced by RCCA; thus, were CCI's, GCI's, GG's and all the other "traditional modern" woodies constructed out of prefabricated pieces (meaning not entire solid track pieces like on intamin prefabs, but, say, single layers or support beams that are readily cut)? OR would the other manufacturers still do everything from the raw wood on at the construction site, and only Intamin would later re-introduce a modernized variant of the prefabrication method?

Thanks in advance for any replies!

1, the whole wheel assembely is not always in contact on some steel coasters. vecomas arnt nor are prifaris but there only around 0.5mm's from the rail. B&M have sock tecnology meaning that the wheels are supported by a small amount of oilsituated in the shocks meaning the wheels are always in contact(thats how it is on the standups but im not shure on other B&M style). it all depends on the type of steel coaster but in most cases the amswer is yes.

2, the reason wood is cheeper is because of the reserch factor of the coasters. steel coasters need more to reserch the forses going throught the track and supports and needs in genral alot more attention than a woodie. a woodie has a genral structure in than when the support work is up the lateral braseing is a standerd part and is added whn they think its needed. steel coasters need to be worked out to the inch where as woodies are fairly quickly designed and erected. of corse dood is a cheeper matirial then steel and is easyier to work with making the engenieering factor cheeper. the assembelly uses less heavy machinery as well making the assembely cheaper. all in all yes woodies are generally cheaper then steel coasters.

3, its true that the RCCA did first introduce the pre-fab woodies but only to a certain extent of the track only. 95% of the supports would be made on site thought and the parts such as the breaks and station would be prefab supports. this has been the standered method for a long time that all the companys have been using for a while but intamin introduced the idea of compleate prefab with all supports and track being in pieces which parks buy and put together. this not only makes parts for the coaster cheap but also makes track segments quick and simple to replace. so in short nearly all modern woddies are prefab but intamin introduces compleate prefab tracks

i hope this answers your questions and if you have any more please dont hesitate to ask.

Hey gazag, thanks for the responses!
1. If on Vekomas, the upstop wheel distance from the rail is 0.5mm, do you know how much it is on woodies? Quite a bit more, I guess?
2. Good, that's just what I thought. Also clarifies why Intamin Prefabs are more expensive, as they are calculated just like Steelies.

I hate to ask again, but do you have any internet sources? Or where did you get all your knowledge?

ha u can actually watch or feel the play on the PM Big One where all the wheels aren't on the track at once if u ride in the front car. I guess steelies can vary a lot, the old schwartzkopf wildcats have a strange tystem with very small upstops not clamped to track like newer steel.

^yeah I think steelies differ a lot more from each other than woodies in many ways...

I've got another question, what about Vekoma woodies? I know Vekoma didn't design them themselves, but who built them? According to their website, it sounds like they just make the trains:

"Vekoma manufactures various trains for these wooden coasters, available as a replacement or for a new to be developed ride."

Which leaves the question: who built the track, supports, electronics and stuff.

Thundercoaster was designed by a firm called Allott and Lomax. They also designed Pepsi Max Big One I think, but I think they now ahs retired from the coaster business.

I think Vekoma designed the other woodies themself, and manufactured them. Those would be Loop Garou and Robin Hood. I wonder why they didn't make any more woodies, after the amazing respons they got from their first installements.

Another note about Thundercoaster, that a friend heard from the designers in Allott and Lomax, was that it was designed for smaller trains, not the Vekoma 3 bench cars. This means that the trains is too big and heavy, and that is the reason for the roughness it has developed lately.(it was VERY smooth in its first season.) I don't have a source for this though, its just something a friedn told me.

Edit: Allott and Lomax has designed three coasters : http://www.rcdb.com/installationresult. ... ontact=345

They have now merged with "Bapti" group, and judging from their website http://www.babtie.com/ they are no longer in the coaster business. Too bad, since it would have been realy cool to see what they could come up with [:)]

Hope this helped some!

^that's very interesting. Thanks for the research, too! I think I can't take Allott and Lomax into my work, though, that would go too much into detail. By the way, Robin Hood and Loup Garou were designed by the Stand company, that had also designed the Dania Beach Hurricane, for example.

So you sure Vekoma have manufactured their woodies (track & supports) themselves? I thought that too, but now that I read on their page about nothing but wooden coaster TRAINS, I started wondering...
Also, what do you mean by "amazing response"? I know Thundercoaster was highly rated, but I thought Robin Hood, and especially Loup Garou were average...

Whatever, more questions start coming up:

Steel coaster maintenance? I know about woodies. But how are steelies inspected/maintained? Is it right that only the electronic parts are inspected daily? (there is no catwalks on the track after all, which led me to that conclusion and there are rarely any track pieces reprofiled/retracked/replaced?

Originally posted by Pad
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Steel coaster maintenance? I know about woodies. But how are steelies inspected/maintained? Is it right that only the electronic parts are inspected daily? (there is no catwalks on the track after all, which led me to that conclusion and there are rarely any track pieces reprofiled/retracked/replaced?

no its not only the electrics that are checked. the hydrolics are checked as well as the chain and mecanism, the supports are checked every few days and the track is checked every week and x-rayed every 4 months to check for cracks and odderties in the steel. all the trais are checked at the stard and end of the day and on very cold/ very hot days mabye half way throught the day aswell. there is always a place in the trackwork somwhere which has to be replaced at the end season. i can say all this is the procedure of drayton manor where im a maintenence engenieer. alot of other information i have in books, videos and throught reaserch and things ive picked up over the years since when i really got into coasters 16 years ago.

As far as Im aware it's only the reprofiling of the first drop and turnaround on the PMBO that Allot and Lomax were involved with.

Out of curiosity regarding the gap between wheels and track, I found this photo where u can see how massive it is. Perhaps if they refit the trains B&M style it wouldn't be so rough.

htat wasent a reprofiling, it was a compleate re-build and replacement. reprofiling includes bending the original track.

also PMBO could never have B&M trains on it. look at the train styles and where the wheels are placed for one and B&M dont and wont ever make trains with the wheels on the inside of the track due to the train profiles and center of gravity

[hyyyper]

^^also if you make it that tight like a b&m there would be much more friction to the wheels and the coaster would prolly not even make the course

pad: I didn't know it was stand company that made Loop Garou and Robin Hood. Thanks for the info[:)]

About how much work vekoma actually does, I'm not sure. I know there was another company actually building Thundercoaster, but that is normal. Since it is "credited" as a Vekoma woodie I'm sure they did some more than just the trains. If not it would be very strange to call them Vekoma woodies[;)]

Thundercoaster was very highly rated, and I've also heard some very nice words about loop Garou. Not as much as Thundercoaster, but you would still think they would have reasons to make more woodies.

Maybe they decided to quit the woodies business, and that is why it doesn't say anything else than trains on their website? It would make sense if they don't make em anymore.

Thanks for the replies so far guys. You've been very helpful. Maybe I'll check back if I've got something more to clarify. BTW, that upstop distance on PMBO is actually huge - if the train would fully ride the upstops on an instance (which probably isn't the case ;), the sidefriction wheels would be no more than half in contact anymore.
@ Nosferatu, I've heard better 'bout robin hood than loop garou (lol I like that ;) and off the pov from loup garou I have, it looks quite tame to me.

^yeah, but if you watch the onride of Robin Hood it also look way more tame then it is in realy time. Robin Hood realy is a nice woodie, its has quitte decent airtime, and it has some strong lats to. Only the lay-out is a bit to boring. To many flat turn if you ask me. Still I think that RH is a superb woodie.

As for the questions, I don't think I can help you. I don't realy know anything about prefabs and costs.