2007 WWS/CC.COM NoLimits Tournament

Come on everybody, just 10 more people!!

Ill give it a shot. I will also look over the rules.. =P Count me in, # 55, is it?

I'm in, sign me up! I was upset i let the last contest pass me by, so I'll lookforward to lasting as long as i can in this one

A lot of other people argued what I would've argued, so I'll just say one thing that isn't exactly original as Iron and maybe others have said similar things, but I feel should be emphasized. This is mostly directed at Matt and those who agree with him...

The designer has the responsibility to make a ride feel like he wants. If the ride seems like it doesn't have "character" then that's the designer's fault, not the design style. I agree fully that many Elementary tracks feel cookie cutter. That's partially because there really weren't that many options for shaping before FVD, which opens tons of shaping opportunities that simply weren't there before. But still, it's up to the designer to work around that, and most don't.

Real designers *only* use tools. I'm confident that every one of the even decent designers, and 99.99% of the tiny companies use some sort of calculus, it's almost mandatory. None just modify curves randomly and visually.

Therefore, if designing for this program is applied to real life, the "wrong" solution (notice wrong is in quotations because it's used *very* loosely) would be to handbuild.

Yes, it's a game, but the point is, why restrict the most realistic way of building, in a game where the main focus is realism?

gazag, not to be mean just to give you some perspective, I'd like to give you some reasons why I don't think you're one of the better designers and why other people may agree with me based on what you said in that post. I'll use your latest B&M hyper as reference:

1. Shaping is unrealistic.
2. Forces are ridiculous. -1.9 g's? Surely some of the best designers know B&M most likely hasn't exceeded -1, or likely even come close to that value. That's WAY too high.
3. Imperfect trackwork... some little pumps here and there, trackwork isn't always fluent like pretty much every element on all newer B&Ms.
4. Randomly bad landscaping in places (Noob hills). Terraformer is part of NL, and should be rated as part of your ride experience (though a smaller part than trackwork ofcourse.

There are some more things but most could be included in the above categories. The things I noted are things where I'm sure of what I'm saying, more than them being an opinion like say originality can be at times, and things like that.

Personally I won't go out on a limb and say that I'm the best designer, because A: that would invite others to harshly critique my work here (which is actually fine with me, because I design my rides to the point where I feel as if people shouldn't have much that could be negative other than opinions to say about them), and B: I respect several other very talented designers, and I know for sure that I don't blow them away so I won't say that I'm better than them, that'd be dumb and disrespectful on my part.

You were asked who you thought was the best, so there's nothing wrong with answering that question truthfully. Just wanted to let you know why some people may disagree like you said, instead of leaving you in the dark, where it's pretty hard to improve.

I will also let you know that I would've definately liked the ride a lot had it been built to be more realistic in trackwork, as the layout was pretty well done overall. Just as an example, it's ok to go really steep with hills as your second one did, however you must make sure to shape it "like B&M would if they designed a similar element" and maintain typical forces.

...lets bitch and complain about the great tool debate. that will get us somewhere...

the lines have already been drawn in the sand. the people have taken their sides, they took their sides years ago. just forget this debate. it really is pointless. all it does it add a post count to yourself, inflate your ego, think negative thoughts about someone else. and at the end of the day it doesnt matter.

i could really care less if elementary is allowed or not. TOOLS are still allowed people...they arent taking this away. personally they shouldnt take anything anyway. if buster or red or someone else has cretaed a program where you can create your own complete track by inserting some numbers, let them use it...but thats just me.

the only cheating there is in NL is using someone else's work. period.

lets just get the more people we need and than next saturday night round one can begin.

Nuff said ragan. That reply is the punctuation of this argument, and I'm pretty sure no one could have said it better than ragan put it.

[Coasterkidmwm]

If someone wants to make a lame ass elementaried rigid as hell piece of crap ride that is fine by me. Makes my rides look better.

Originally posted by gazag
and as for my favorite designer its got to be myself cuz my tracks are just sweet but no one seems to realise it

That why you have to rely on ridiculous G forces to make your incredible creations the best rides ever instead of designing within the limits.

[Oscar]

someone mentioned this earlier, I'll reiterate without more clutter in the reply.
Just because you use tools and it comes out technically perfect, it doesn't mean you will win. You can only get good so far without using your imagination and creativity, and what will stand out in this contest is the designers creativity to make their design be the best it can be in what we throw at them to build it in. Tools are not required, your creativity and imagination are. with that said 7 more slots to fill and we can begin!

[Coasterkidmwm]

I think we should bicker more and say the same things over and over again.

ADD ME IN! YAY almost last one to join in!

(just noticed this) Yikes, 2 weeks for rounds and 2 full weeks for judging? 6 rounds? This is going to be one long contest... Hey, at least you're setting realistic deadlines for judging. And here I always thought that I could do the ratings in three days.

Anyway, I'm kind of not sure about the whole pairing thing. Here's hoping that hand-builders and elementarians find like pairings, because I'm sure there are plenty of peeps like me out there who can only legitimately build by hand and are 100% inept at elementary.

thats one reason why i thourght of the pairing, it makes it more challenging and brings member closer toghter. remember your all concerned about the track but there is scenery and supportwork to concider aswell. althought scenery wont hardly be judged the supportework will be taken into great concideration along with the track work, a coaster without good support work would colapse so there is more than one way to settle round 2 between yourselve's. thats if you make it that is

How about we skip round 2? [;)]

no

I've never used the Elementary,so i don't gonna use it,I even dont know how to use it ;)

count me in

^ Great grammar by the way[;)]

[Oscar]

5 more!

Where do I sign up?

It's not, that I could win or something, but I'm in too!!!

[Oscar]

ok you are now signed up

I think you should sign up WWS^

[Dirk_Ermen]

yeah, wws should join too... i wanna see wws kick sff's ass x'D

[Oscar]

piff, I don't want to embarras anyone [:)]

yeah, go on wws, have a bit of fun with your loving members

[Oscar]

nahhhh I can't make the deadlines, too much school work, real work and backend site work.