NMR: The Recreation/ Scylla

Originally posted by EElover2

I just watched TPR's onride vid, and I think that NMR can be made with Elementary. If you do you a few segments and move them up and down (while using the HSAK) I think the hardest turns could be made.

I don't know if you could make the turning hill alongside the first drop with the HSAK.

The hill turns and then almost completely levels out while still turning slightly, then the peak and drop are all straight. With the HSAK, you can control radius, but then at the end of the turn, the upwards angle would have a short straight section, unlike the real coaster. What I mean is, in the HSAK you can control only one radius at a time, not both the vertical and horizontal radii.

I do have a limited knowledge of the HSAK and Elementary though, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Just a question. Is the flat part at the top of the lift hill slanted down or straight level?

^Slanted down barely, like the station, but the straight up there is very small and virtually unnoticable.

^^With just the HSAK, you are correct sir. However, there are many formulas that can achive the transition of that hill...the entry to it would be more of a problem more than the top IMO.

Simple solution: Handbuild it all! I've spent hours shaping it and am very happy with how it turned out. For a recreation like this, handbuilding is more enjoyable for me, and it's much easier to make fixes IMO.

The question fo whether it can be done in Elementary is pointless because you can make anything in it if you have the math know-how. You are right though, you can't directly control the vertical radius.

I wait in anticipation of your CCI ride, Jimmy.

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Originally posted by EElover2

I just watched TPR's onride vid, and I think that NMR can be made with Elementary. If you do you a few segments and move them up and down (while using the HSAK) I think the hardest turns could be made.

I don't know if you could make the turning hill alongside the first drop with the HSAK.

The hill turns and then almost completely levels out while still turning slightly, then the peak and drop are all straight. With the HSAK, you can control radius, but then at the end of the turn, the upwards angle would have a short straight section, unlike the real coaster. What I mean is, in the HSAK you can control only one radius at a time, not both the vertical and horizontal radii.

I do have a limited knowledge of the HSAK and Elementary though, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

That's exactly why you would use Red's bowfu formulas on those sections. They allow you to adjust the vertical radius based off of the speeds and leads, and then you can specify a constant horizontal radius.

With my coaster I'm going to make a list of the elements in elementary, what formula, and how I adjusted them.

Originally posted by Jimmy Yoshi

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Originally posted by EElover2

I just watched TPR's onride vid, and I think that NMR can be made with Elementary. If you do you a few segments and move them up and down (while using the HSAK) I think the hardest turns could be made.

I don't know if you could make the turning hill alongside the first drop with the HSAK.

The hill turns and then almost completely levels out while still turning slightly, then the peak and drop are all straight. With the HSAK, you can control radius, but then at the end of the turn, the upwards angle would have a short straight section, unlike the real coaster. What I mean is, in the HSAK you can control only one radius at a time, not both the vertical and horizontal radii.

I do have a limited knowledge of the HSAK and Elementary though, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

That's exactly why you would use Red's bowfu formulas on those sections. They allow you to adjust the vertical radius based off of the speeds and leads, and then you can specify a constant horizontal radius.

Red's bowfu formulas aren't part of the HSAK though. I know you can create that hill with the Elementary, just not from the HSAK alone.

Originally posted by Jimmy Yoshi

That's exactly why you would use Red's bowfu formulas on those sections. They allow you to adjust the vertical radius based off of the speeds and leads, and then you can specify a constant horizontal radius.

Where did you get this bowfu formula you have?

Yeah, you shouldn't only use HSAK, you'll end up with a poopy transitioned ride and such.

So far I have the station, prelift, lift, drop, and a curving bunnyhill done. Would be moving much faster but it takes awhile to type up everything I did.

^ lol


I would like to use the bowfu formula in my coasters.

Yeah I realized that you've improved since that ride, meant to say it too just...didn't. lol

Problem with using Bowfu Bowhat/Bowdip is you can't have a leadin to a turn (or if you rotate it, can't have a leadin to the hill crest/pullout). hmm now that I think about it, I've never tried rotating Bowfu... that could work nicely in some places with a little splicing Might have to try that sometime. So anyways most CCI turn transitions don't have leadins, so it works perfectly for them. But as stated before, problems can arise when trying to leadin/out of two separate radii in one element. Not impossible in many cases, but certainly not as simple as using Bowfu for the common CCI transitions.

I haven't looked at formulas too much, but apparently it's possible to combine different formulas (for instance, the YL controls of bowfu with the XZ controls of HSAK), but I haven't tried that. Also not sure if I said that last statement correctly, but what I said should be similar to the actual procedure. I think it's worthwhile to experiment with that, and I may do so sometime.

Ok, after about a week off from this project, I'm back on it. What was I doing? Working on a new invert ofcourse, based on Patriot and Phaethon, new B&M inverts.

I will use this thread to advertise Scylla aswell:

http://www.nolimitsdevcenter.net/i29209

looks good but im more interested in seeing the NMR being completed...

I think you should start and end the rotation on the Zero G earlier and later. All of the newer B&M's have a much longer rotation on the Zero G's. Hydra, Patriot, Black Mamba. Adds twistiness + more Zero G.

I see you figured out what to put on the invert, Jake. It looks good, especially that turn + dive loop combo after the Zero G. I'm lovin' the way it looks.

Ok, Chris (Myriad) checked out the ride (Scylla) and reccomended some changes, so Real, I will do what you said.

I also plan to change the cork out (thanks to a DCS suggestion) for one of these babies:

http://www.nolimitsdevcenter.net/i29285

That cork^ looks like one hell of a cork.

[sarcasm]Yeah, I have never been so exicted.

I can't wait for the ride, like I have anything better to do.[/sarcasm]

[thisisnotsarcasm]

^lol haha

Yeah the cork looks good, maybe a little less whip at the top, but that is just me.

[/thisisnotsarcasm]

B&M corks are made for whipping, and that's how all of their corkscrews are. It's very realistic.

^ I just think it might go a little too fast into the cork, although I do not know the exact speed of Jakizle's actual ride.

Originally posted by EElover2

^ I just think it might go a little too fast into the cork, although I do not know the exact speed of Jakizle's actual ride.

Regardless of how much whip there is at the top, if the train is going too fast through it, then it's too fast. That cork looks very realistic, as B&M corks do indeed have a quick snap to them... B&M isn't Arrow where they design their corkscrews to produce laterals.

The whip actually helps eliminate any laterals because it holds the ideal banking of the cork for as long as possible before flipping you over very quickly to counteract the negative force that would occur if the cork was not banked at all. Blah!

This is assuming he will use a low filter on this section of track, like 20-25, to allow the banking to be very precise but not bumpy.

And Arrow corks have lats because they just didn't know how to bank them perfectly, so they just used a constant bank over the entire corkscrew.

Originally posted by Jimmy Yoshi

This is assuming he will use a low filter on this section of track, like 20-25, to allow the banking to be very precise but not bumpy.

20-25 seems a tad low to me, 40-50 seems like it would be about right, as even filters on the higher side (and 40-50 is rather low) would still probably create that snap.

That snap is actually with a filter of 300, but I'm working on fixing it right now, as there are high lats on the outside seat on the left side. I'm gunna play with a bunch of settings later until I get it as 'good' as I can.

That cork is taken pretty fast, so I might have to just make it bigger (with the same whip effect, of course).

Image Insert:

102.9 KB

http://www.zshare.net/download/2322802ccd496b/

Filter of 5.

Jake, you had better watch that filter, at 300 you're losing a ton of banking info.