New #1 coaster, on a list of 478

^Like Maverick and TTD/KK?

well yeah.

TTD/KK might have an exception thought but having not riden them im not shure on that

but maverick i bet will rate in top 10 coasters easy.
on my list anyway if i ever get to ride it

Take the Mag Lev train for example. Its the Intamin wood to traditional wood. It doesnt have those twin rails like normal trains. Doesnt feature a diesel or steam engine. It does ride a single rail and it does transport people in the exact same manner. But its not called a train, its a Mag Lev. Yet, you could call a steam train, deisel train the same thing - a train.

Actually, Mag Lev is just the term for the different tracking system. It's still a train, it's just situated differently. if you want to get technical about it, most do have two rails: http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06 ... aglev2.jpg

So is the image I linked a train, but a monorail not a train? Aren't they all trains, just different variations?

By your logic you could say that a steeple chase isn't a steel coaster, or almost any other type of steel coaster since most steel coasters are in fact not called 'steel coasters" but an invert, or floorless, or standup, etc. You could say a paperback book isn't a book since, historically, books had hard covers until the introduction of perfect binding. A CD can't be an album because it isn't impressed on vinyl? Is your computer's printer not a printer since you don't have to set the type yourself?

To me, a steeple chase is a steel coaster, a paperback is still a book, a CD cans till be an album, and my printer is still a printer. They are all what they are, they simply do things differently.

What you are doing is not separating El Toro from wooden coasters, you are simply classifying BEYOND "wooden." You are differing between "Intamin woodie" and "traditional woodie." They are both still wooden coasters: track made of wood(one layered, one fused) and they both run on steel track. The only thing left is the wheels, and you can't classify an entire coaster on it's wheels; maybe the trains. You could put poly wheels on a PTC or GCI train and it would perform the same operation.

So if you're saying El Toro isn't a traditional wooden coaster,. everybody will agree, but to separate it from wooden coasters as a whole is illogical and, with all due respect, stupid.

You really tried too hard to disect what I said. Its Intamin wood. As you said, its its own class. If you want, we can go as far as to break the rest of the wooden coasters into the "traditional wood" category.

But the word traditional isnt specific enough. Intamin is so different in many different areas from what its made of, how its made to how it runs in comparison to "traditional". But I wouldnt even really call coasters of the last 2 decades traditional. The aid of computers has really even taken away the traditionalness of the rides. Even Voyage, while traditional in stock and track bed, is designed in such a way that its ride is very modern.

I think that to even classify the rest of wooden coasters into one called traditional is just as illogical as saying Intamin wood cant be its own category. The design, fabrication and outcome of a wooden coaster is much like the natural progress with the trains as I noted. Its more efficient to use a single rail with magnetic propulsion than it is for 2 rails with deisel fuel and steel wheels.

Just like its quicker and more efficient to design a ride to ride like a steel coaster; fabricated like a steel coaster and rides like a steel coaster. Steel coasters were considered the natural progression in thrills when they came on the scene because they were immense in size, quick to assemble and easier to maintain. Intamin wood is all of that. Make it bad? Nope. Just technology making another division.

In my own opinion, I'd have to say wood and steel aren't defined on how a coaster runs and how it's built. I'd have to say wood and steel are defined by what they're build with...wood...and steel.

[jayman]

WHAT? the cyclone at coney island IS one of the purest wooden rollercoasters known , it's structure is steel. gemini at cedar point is obviously NOT a wooden rollercoaster, but has a beautiful looking wooden structure.
the very esscence of a wooden rollercoaster is how it's built and how it rides. el toro is a new style of rollercoaster fixed up to look like a wooden one, but those who know the difference would not put it the same catergory with voyage because it isn't the same .
call it Intamin retro, or whatever you like. it's just NOT a wooden rollercoaster like voyage , hades, ghostrider.etc. it is something new. for some, people who think wooden rollercoasters a rickety old school peices of junk, they are an improvement. for those who think wooden rollercoasters are the end all of all things fun it's a joke. it's like trying to take a pt cruiser to a classic car show..

Jayman, I don't know too much about Blink 182 but I do know that El Toro's track is made out of wood with steel plating, just like pretty much every other wood coaster, therefore it is a wooden roller coaster.

Real, I *sortof* think you finally see my point (though I think your post branched off on a tangent), so I'll be brief. The whole traditional thing was not a main point of mine so I'm not sure why you're focusing a lot on that but I'll say that I agree with what you said about it. I think for us to agree we can have a system of categories... top being roller coaster, then a split with wooden and steel, and under wooden would be prefabricated, traditional (mostly circular shaping etc.) and modern (GCI, GG), plus whatever else you want to add. That takes most of our points and puts them into one, without saying El Toro is a steel coaster which is the main thing I disagreed with.

Happy birthday Real btw, incase you don't check facebook today.

@ Jayman?????????s second post, not sure why you said that about Cyclone and Gemini, or if you said it to me, but if you did say that to me then you completely missed this quote in my last large post: ?????????History has attached the disclaimer that the word "wooden" only refers to the track material, not supports...fine. That still describes material, so it's valid.?????????

^I like that analogy. it's like the difference between a band's first album and a later album when they've singed with a big label; it's still pretty good, but just won't be the same in respect to both its style and the environment it's produced in.

Yeah, but "punk rock" is atleast somewhat ambiguous and open to discussion. "Wooden roller coaster" is very clear.

[jayman]

uhh.. that's not it. let's say bad religion is voyage. it's style has been around for a long time. it's done by people that not only know what they're doing but helped invent it too.even to this day they (in my humble music snob opinion) they are punk rock..they have authenticity,. blink is like el toro. put together with lots of money, some formulas based on the old ones and one hell of a marketing scheme aimed at the general public...they are not punk rock
both play 3 chord "pop punk" both sport tatoos and shortish hair (well long now , last time i ran into anyone from bad religion)both use the formula of simple harmonies, in fact their styles almost match.. but there's something about blink that makes them NOT punk rock. maybe something new that i at least can tolerate now, but they were created by an entity (major label) that traditionaly does something else, which is putting out slick, smooth pop music for the kiddies to listen to on their ipods.. bad religion has relied on purity and authenticity for years....eh .. that probabaly didn't make sense either.
no dcs i wasn't talking about your post.

ok good , also glad you're speaking to SMer in your last one because that whole paragraph just went *swoooosh* over my head lol.

I think we can all agree that a "traditional" wood coaster has a wood or steel structure, wood layered track, flat steel running rails and above all, steel wheels. Anything else is in a different category. I'm not saying the other types are bad, they are just different. I like the story about the guy taking off his El Toro T-Shirt and buying and puting on a Voyage T-shirt after riding The Voyage.

I think that to even classify the rest of wooden coasters into one called traditional is just as illogical as saying Intamin wood cant be its own category.

I really wasn't lumping them all together in terms of execution style, but fabrication/construction. Intamin wood IS it's own category simply because it is the ONLY branch under the prefab wooden family, but it is still ultimately under the wooden coaster heading. Under traditional, in terms of fabrication using layered wood hand placed during construction, you could of course break them down FAR further. Being that there isn't any other prefab wood track, though, I simply consolidated that branch and skipped "prefab" and went to "Intamin" because I felt it would have been assumed what was in between.

This still doesn't change the fact that plug & play wooden coasters are still wooden coasters. You are trying to say that an Intamin woodie isn't really a wooden coaster, but then you said it's unfair to group the rest of wooden coasters together, but that seems to be exactly what you are doing when excluding Intamin's wood from the rest. If you're going to separate Intamin based on design technique/construction/trains/etc, at least be consistent and break down the rest as well at that first level.

I'm not denying that there are plenty of styles, but it seems like you want to skip a step in classifying them into branches. I want to go from wood, to the track fabrication method(prefab, or "traditional"), and then to the individual trackwork and shaping styles. It seems like you want to skip the fabrication style and go from wooden, and then straight to Intamin/(GCI/GG/CCI/Traver/Allen/Summers/Dinn/etc.), grouping all parenthetical entries together somehow, even if you didn't say that explicitly.

[jayman]

fine .. it is wood . but it is NOT the same as other wooden rollercoasters, and should be catergorized differently.