Evolution

[jayman]

Originally posted by CalawayPark

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Honestly you have to be a step above retarded not to believe in evolution and still function as a human being.

Anyone who actually believes (not consider as a possibility, but believes) that organisms magically started gaining complexity by themselves and over time formed into human beings are complete morons. I don't care how much science bullsh1t is thrown at me, or "evidence" that fits a certain theory. The whole idea is illogical as an organism can't just magically start evolving into a more complex organism. That logic alone "erases" what evidence for evolution scientists have. But scientists don't take logic into account, and as a result make fools of themselves by trying to predict what happened throughout the course of earth's history.

If you or anyone else really think they know exactly what went on throughout the past millions/billions of years, it's quite sad. Evolutionists AND creationists make me laugh.

Lmao, oh dear, and us just magically appearing from the 'big bang' is what you believe? God is just as illogical, really who believes there's this fairy tale land out there that we go to when we die? It's far more illogical for us to have just magically appeared.

And by the way, the cells in your body multiply and divide all the time, how do you think you get taller? Evolution is SO plausible it's not even funny, there's like no way you can prove it to be 'fake.'

actually the concept of "god" by itself IS logical.no mater what the human mind asks"well, shiz, what started it?" logic is not divine. it's human.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by CalawayPark

Lmao, oh dear, and us just magically appearing from the 'big bang' is what you believe? God is just as illogical, really who believes there's this fairy tale land out there that we go to when we die? It's far more illogical for us to have just magically appeared.

And by the way, the cells in your body multiply and divide all the time, how do you think you get taller? Evolution is SO plausible it's not even funny, there's like no way you can prove it to be 'fake.'

The topic is evolution, not the creation of the universe.

Look up the Anthropic Principle, I believe in it contrary to the words being put into my mouth by many people.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Originally posted by CalawayPark

Lmao, oh dear, and us just magically appearing from the 'big bang' is what you believe? God is just as illogical, really who believes there's this fairy tale land out there that we go to when we die? It's far more illogical for us to have just magically appeared.

And by the way, the cells in your body multiply and divide all the time, how do you think you get taller? Evolution is SO plausible it's not even funny, there's like no way you can prove it to be 'fake.'

The topic is evolution, not the creation of the universe.

Look up the Anthropic Principle, I believe in it contrary to the words being put into my mouth by many people.

Yes, but some people believe that animals and humans and such were created in the big bang.

[jayman]

what big bang, do you have a you tube link?

Originally posted by CalawayPark



Lmao, oh dear, and us just magically appearing from the 'big bang' is what you believe?

Big Bang makes sense. I don't get where you got the idea that we directly came out of it, but, I believe the Big Bang.

But yeah, evolution.

I'm totally down with any idea that says we could've possibly come from a sea sponge.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Honestly you have to be a step above retarded not to believe in evolution and still function as a human being.

Anyone who actually believes (not consider as a possibility, but believes) that organisms magically started gaining complexity by themselves and over time formed into human beings are complete morons. I don't care how much science bullsh1t is thrown at me, or "evidence" that fits a certain theory. The whole idea is illogical as an organism can't just magically start evolving into a more complex organism. That logic alone "erases" what evidence for evolution scientists have. But scientists don't take logic into account, and as a result make fools of themselves by trying to predict what happened throughout the course of earth's history.

If you or anyone else really think they know exactly what went on throughout the past millions/billions of years, it's quite sad. Evolutionists AND creationists make me laugh.

indeed, they don't just go from single-celled to complex, there're lots of billions of years between that and now, and the evolve by mutation, with happens with radiation. If the mutation comes in handy for survival, it'll continue to pop up, if it's giving you a lesser advantage, you'll probably die and the feature won't return in the offspring

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Honestly you have to be a step above retarded not to believe in evolution and still function as a human being.

Anyone who actually believes (not consider as a possibility, but believes) that organisms magically started gaining complexity by themselves and over time formed into human beings are complete morons. I don't care how much science bullsh1t is thrown at me, or "evidence" that fits a certain theory. The whole idea is illogical as an organism can't just magically start evolving into a more complex organism. That logic alone "erases" what evidence for evolution scientists have. But scientists don't take logic into account, and as a result make fools of themselves by trying to predict what happened throughout the course of earth's history.

If you or anyone else really think they know exactly what went on throughout the past millions/billions of years, it's quite sad. Evolutionists AND creationists make me laugh.

Nothing magically started evolving. Evolution is NOT magic and is NOT random, not only do we have transitional fossils, but we have seen evolution take place. Mutation is random, the average person has several mutations in their DNA. Mutation is not retardation, a mutation is a part of the genetic that has not been directly passed by the father or mother. Mutations, good or bad, change the organism very slightly, you can not tell a difference in the organism, only the DNA. But in these slight random changes, organisms and their offspring either surpass similar organisms, remain at par, or fall behind, which is when natural selection comes in. Random mutations happen in every organism, and natural selection sets these organisms apart, and as these organisms gain advantages over generations, they evolve into a new organism all together, still similar to the previous organism, unless you add a LOT of time, but a new organism non the less.

Evolution is NOT magic, and it is NOT random. Mutation IS random, and God IS magic.

Originally posted by hyyyper

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Honestly you have to be a step above retarded not to believe in evolution and still function as a human being.

Anyone who actually believes (not consider as a possibility, but believes) that organisms magically started gaining complexity by themselves and over time formed into human beings are complete morons. I don't care how much science bullsh1t is thrown at me, or "evidence" that fits a certain theory. The whole idea is illogical as an organism can't just magically start evolving into a more complex organism. That logic alone "erases" what evidence for evolution scientists have. But scientists don't take logic into account, and as a result make fools of themselves by trying to predict what happened throughout the course of earth's history.

If you or anyone else really think they know exactly what went on throughout the past millions/billions of years, it's quite sad. Evolutionists AND creationists make me laugh.

indeed, they don't just go from single-celled to complex, there're lots of billions of years between that and now, and the evolve by mutation, with happens with radiation. If the mutation comes in handy for survival, it'll continue to pop up, if it's giving you a lesser advantage, you'll probably die and the feature won't return in the offspring

First you say that the evolutionary process takes billions of years, then you say that an organism can randomly develop a mutation in it's lifetime, then that mutation continuously pop up (if beneficial) in the offspring. Either mutation is essentially evolution, or it isn't. If it isn't, then it's irrelevant to this discussion, but if it is, then your first statement is incorrect.

Either way though, a mutation is simply a change in the DNA of an organism to help that organism survive in it's environment, and NOT a sign that the organism has gained complexity in any way.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Honestly you have to be a step above retarded not to believe in evolution and still function as a human being.

Anyone who actually believes (not consider as a possibility, but believes) that organisms magically started gaining complexity by themselves and over time formed into human beings are complete morons. I don't care how much science bullsh1t is thrown at me, or "evidence" that fits a certain theory. The whole idea is illogical as an organism can't just magically start evolving into a more complex organism. That logic alone "erases" what evidence for evolution scientists have. But scientists don't take logic into account, and as a result make fools of themselves by trying to predict what happened throughout the course of earth's history.

If you or anyone else really think they know exactly what went on throughout the past millions/billions of years, it's quite sad. Evolutionists AND creationists make me laugh.

Nothing magically started evolving. Evolution is NOT magic and is NOT random, not only do we have transitional fossils, but we have seen evolution take place. Mutation is random, the average person has about 4 mutations in their DNA. Mutation is not retardation, a mutation is a part of the genetic that has not been directly passed by the father or mother. Mutations, good or bad, change the organism very slightly, you can not tell a difference in the organism, only the DNA. But in these slight random changes, organisms either surpass similar organisms, remain at par, or fall behind, which is when natural selection comes in. Random mutations happen in every organism, and natural selection sets these organisms apart, and as these organisms gain advantages over generations, they evolve into a new organism all together, still similar to the previous organism, unless you add a LOT of time, but a new organism non the less.

Evolution is NOT magic, and it is NOT random. Mutation IS random, and God IS magic.

I believe in mutation (of course), and in natural selection (of course). All I was saying is that it's ridiculous to believe that mutations over time increase the complexity of an organism; such as humans evolving from another primate-like ancestor.

Flying Spaghetti Monster anyone?

Originally posted by TConwell

I wonder, in the past 6 years, how many times we have had this debate.

After my few years here I think around 4-5...

[jayman]

dude a flying spheghetti monster would taste so good.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by IntaminFan397I believe in mutation (of course), and in natural selection (of course). All I was saying is that it's ridiculous to believe that mutations over time increase the complexity of an organism; such as humans evolving from another primate-like ancestor.

I did not say a mutation could happen in one lifetime, if you want a mutation to help evolution, it should happen in the time where the organism exicst of just a few cells. If you change the DNA at that point, it will be duplicated and 'carried out' in the rest of the organism.
And for complexity, if by a mutation a single celled organism mutates into two linked cells (it'll take some generations of sustained mutation i know), and you can go futher. Evolution has had an in-imaginable amount of time on their hands to go from nothing to this.

A mutation DOES NOT form durnig an ogarisms life, only during the formation of the organism.

I beg to differ...

http://supak.com/simpsons/Radioactive_M ... v_1024.jpg

Ah, Ninja Turtle style mutation... I have yet to study much on this, but it really does not have much to do with evolution, but it is very interesting indeed.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by CalawayPark
Yes, but some people believe that animals and humans and such were created in the big bang.

I have never heard of anyone being that stupid.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly
Evolution is NOT magic, and it is NOT random. Mutation IS random, and God IS magic.

1. Um yeah usually it is pretty random. Look at punctuated equilibrium. Exploration in China has yielded many transition fossils, but many changes are linked to genetic drift (randomness).

Say you have a group of deer in a forest. 1 out of 1000 of them is much more intelligent than the others. A catastrophe occurs like a flood, landslide, eruption, etc, and now the deer have all split off into separate groups by force via the catastrophe from death, lack of food, or obstacles (new formations they cannot climb over, etc). Your chances of having 1 in 1000 intelligent deer just plummeted down to 1 in 10. The group of 1 in 10 with the intelligent deer has lots of sex like animals do, then there is inbreeding, and you have a new smarter deer. Why is this hard to understand? I attached a picture to illustrate this.

Originally posted by IntaminFan397
Either way though, a mutation is simply a change in the DNA of an organism to help that organism survive in it's environment, and NOT a sign that the organism has gained complexity in any way.

No that isn't what it is at all. You don't agree with the theory because you don't understand it. Either you're too dumb or you're so brainwashed that you cannot bring yourself to try and consider outside ideas. Evolution is not about gaining complexity. Many organisms stay relatively the same for VERY long periods of time because a change is not needed. An example would be lingulas. Again, hate the theory after you learn what it is and understand it, don't hate it before you even have a clue what it is.

Originally posted by IntaminFan397
I believe in mutation (of course), and in natural selection (of course). All I was saying is that it's ridiculous to believe that mutations over time increase the complexity of an organism; such as humans evolving from another primate-like ancestor.

We didn't "come from" a monkey like I said above, it was a tree dwelling marsupial if you really want to get it right. Monkeys followed a different evolutionary path.

Evolution is not a ladder. You don't go fish, then amphibian, then reptile, then bird, then monkey, then human or whatever you morons have convinced yourselves it is. IT'S A DAMNED TREE. We're a branch. The trunk of the tree is single celled organisms, little algaes, crap like that. As for the roots, nobody knows and nobody pretends to know. I don't understand how you can sit on your tailbone (yay vestigal organs) and not believe in any of this. I mean come on, you have evidence for this, IN YOUR OWN ASS, in your mother's ass, in your dad's ass, and your friend's asses. In everyone's ass you know. there is strong evidence saying it happened.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

Ah, Ninja Turtle style mutation... I have yet to study much on this, but it really does not have much to do with evolution, but it is very interesting indeed.

Pain, cancer, stunted growth, cribdeath, horrible radiation skin burns and the like are really super awesome. Look at Chernobyl related health effects (go to a real study, not Greenpeace or some horsecrap from them). Pretty sad.



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[hyyyper]

god would my biology teacher love this topic....he has made several attemps to make a forum on our school network to discus evolution, he failed....and now, on an american ( and a lot of ppl there are rejecting evolution) coaster site, we have like one of the best discussion, and explinations. I hope it doesn't get out of hand cos i really like this debate/discussion/whatever

Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population from generation to generation. These traits are the expression of genes that are copied and passed on to offspring during reproduction. Mutations in these genes can produce new or altered traits, resulting in heritable differences (genetic variation) between organisms. New traits can also come from transfer of genes between populations, as in migration, or between species, in horizontal gene transfer. Evolution occurs when these heritable differences become more common or rare in a population, either non-randomly through natural selection or randomly through genetic drift.

Wiki bitches!

I totally agree with Coasterkidmwm, but I would also have to point out my vision of the whole evolution tree. I think we were intelligent from the start, not smart but we were definitely creative because why would we be intelligent now were we are only one in billions of species on earth. Anything except mammals has the ability to reason or choose if you will. Humans how ever have creativity as well. We can predict situations and deal with them in numerous ways. It's you?????????re choice. Many choices in our lives are instinctive but not all of them. That?????????s where the religion conflict comes in. I am a Christian that believes we did evolve, but our species hasn?????????t changed. We were humans then and we stayed humans.

Originally posted by IntaminFan397
Either way though, a mutation is simply a change in the DNA of an organism to help that organism survive in it's environment, and NOT a sign that the organism has gained complexity in any way.

Eh, incorrect. If thats the case, look at all the mutations that happen to humans that are 100% detrimental to their health and in some cases shorten life spans. I would venture to say majority of mutations are bad and only a minute few are actually good.


And you have to be the most ignorant of people, even if you dont believe in God, to say He is magic. Thats a laugh. Ive instantly lost respect for you. Be intelligent like evolution says you should be.

Originally posted by Real

Originally posted by IntaminFan397
Either way though, a mutation is simply a change in the DNA of an organism to help that organism survive in it's environment, and NOT a sign that the organism has gained complexity in any way.

Eh, incorrect. If thats the case, look at all the mutations that happen to humans that are 100% detrimental to their health and in some cases shorten life spans. I would venture to say majority of mutations are bad and only a minute few are actually good.


And you have to be the most ignorant of people, even if you dont believe in God, to say He is magic. Thats a laugh. Ive instantly lost respect for you. Be intelligent like evolution says you should be.

How so? God seems very similar to magic to me.... Perhaps our different perspectives give opposing point of views on God. Alchemy with nothing as the reactants seems like magic to me...

But one thing you said, that most mutations are bad, that is false, a majority of mutations make no difference what so ever in an organism, only until future generations do these mutations and genes start to make a difference, and that a minute few are good, well that is yes and no. Whether or not that there are more bad then good depends on the environment, and natural selection, unless you are talking about deformations.

mu?????????ta?????????tion
1. Biology. a. a sudden departure from the parent type in one or more heritable characteristics, caused by a change in a gene or a chromosome.
b. an individual, species, or the like, resulting from such a departure.

2. the act or process of changing.
3. a change or alteration, as in form or nature.

de?????????for?????????ma?????????tion

1. the act of deforming; distortion; disfigurement.
2. the result of deforming; change of form, esp. for the worse.
3. an altered form.

I would also say that the words are almost interchangeable in alot of areas. The only time they wouldnt would be when talking about a good mutation. In which case, it could still be by the deforming of something but it just wouldnt be as accurate.

There is no where that says a mutation is only characterized by only be good and a bad "mutation" is called a deformation. Both are pretty much the same thing except the word "deform" is more specific to the negative side of a mutation. Mutation encompasses both good and bad and I would argue that more bad mutations happen than good.

Magic is nothing more than an illusion. Medical miracles - not explainable by science happen every day. I baffled a team of doctors myself around age 10 being one of those. Magic has no relation what so ever to anything God related.

And as usual, you have to explain yourself because people are too thick to assume whats already being talked about...

Of course it doesnt matter for a species untill it starts to repeat itself down the chain. Isnt that evolution? Arent we talking about that? I wasted all that typing just to explain what should have been a given.


One final note. Im not going to get into the God vs Evolution battle. Evolution exists. To what extent? I dont think we know. I dont think its to the extent we think, but we could as humans just be ignorant to any other possibilities that are over our heads.

[hyyyper]

then where does god fit into evolution...wasn't he the one who created earth in 6 days...or do you only believe in god and not the bible...


EDIT: as for the mutations, there are by far more negative mutations than positive or mutations that are in between. However, in normal organism populations, where there is a certian amount of organism that live untill maturity and actually reproduce, the ones with the bad mutation won't survive and the 'bad genes' are out of the 'gene pool'.

I vote that one day we'll become slug-like because we'll have no use for legs and arms due to the technological advancements we have.

[jk]