Evolution

Originally posted by TConwell

Well, since we do not have a common frame of reference for one another, it would of course make no sense hyyyper. For if we do not have the same understanding, we will collectively continue to go round and round, gaining no ground, and looking no different than a monkey throwing feces at the zoo.

Herein lies your ignorance. The entire point of conversation is to gain "a common frame of reference" or to at least understand the differences between each other. You seemingly don't attempt either. You think you're right and everybody who disagrees with you is wrong and you speak in a tone that comes across as disgustingly superior. You entered this conversation without accepting the possibility you may be proven wrong. You demonstrate a complete lack of desire for understanding or education. You hide behind your scripture and use it as an excuse to not seek further understanding of the subject at hand. However, your understanding of science does not affect your beliefs, or it shouldn't if you are confident in them as you seem, so I don't understand why you seem so unwilling to take this chance to learn something.

Also, that was not a flame. Unlike others, I do not try to prove your belief incorrect. I simply point out that you are incorrect about mine. Never once did I say "creationism is dumb" or anything related, because that's not my opinion. Creationism has just as much validity as any scientific ideas, I simply choose to go with what can be observed as opposed to something that is purely faith-based.

If anything, I should have taken any post in this thread saying that evolution is illogical or weak as a flame. Unlike you, I countered by pointing out that you are misinformed and NOT by attempting to debase your beliefs. If I wanted to, I could call into question whether or not the Bible could be used as a "factual basis" for your arguments, but I'm not going to because I'm better than that.

i think the results are sad....mhm...i for one and the few do not believe in evolution and that whole we eveoved from a swirling mass of floating gass and monkeys deal

Originally posted by TConwell

Excellent argument CoasterKidMWM ... very well presented.

Evolution. OK boys and girls - pay attention.

The facts:

1. We have a plethera of apes TODAY.
2. We have a plethera of humans TODAY.

The problem:

Why do we not have 1/2 human and 1/2 ape creatures TODAY?

The answer:

It is because the theory of evolution is crap. It falls apart at this very simple level. This is the one thing NO ONE can explain. From kiddies on a coaster board to expert scientists; no one can offer an explanation as to why we do not see those 1/2 and 1/2 creatures TODAY.

The lame excuse:

Create a fairy tale about a "missing link".

What kills this rationale:

Survival of the fitest is crap in this situation. Why? Apes do nothing for us today. It would seem that a higher functioning ape (a 1/2 and 1/2 creature) would be far more beneficial to the world than a dumb ape sitting in a cage. If anything, they could be trained to do yard work.

The final straw:

Let's say for argument sake that 85% of the world has been explored and documented TODAY. Are you telling me that the "missing link" is hidden somewhere in the unexplored 15%? Nonsense. If they were that smart they would have figured out a way to make themselves known to us TODAY.

Discussion over. Expect no more replies to this from me, you are merely wasting your time going on and on. Face it, you are seeking an explanation to justify your own existence, when there is only one thing that will fill the void in your life.

Proverbs 15:2 "The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly."

Pwned ... [flush]

And this is for Real alone -- if anyone gets this, he will and no it is not a flame kiddies so don't try to fan any flames.

Proverbs 26:4 "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself."

i agree 100% as a christion ....(lets not induse Faith into this)

The problem with your argument, TCon, is that humans have been evolving this whole time, and still are today. Any "1/2 humans 1/2 tree dwelling primates" are gone today because they kept on evolving into us, just like humans as we know them now will have evolved into some new species eventually, and Homo sapiens will likely become extinct. We are not the end product of evolution like you make it sound, we're part of the process too. There never is an end product with evolution, and any species you look at is in this transition constantly. Just my two cents here.

I would make a post about this topic, but sadly I don't have 2 cents.

[Coasterkidmwm]

One of our ancestors had a brain double the size with double the brain capacity. Yet we have a smaller brain. Additionally Neanderthals were rather large. If shrinking in size and losing brain capacity isn't losing complexity, what is?

BTW brain capacity does not equal intelligence.

Tconwell I appreciate your comments about me bringing "new science" or whatever wording you used, however all it shows is that since you had never heard of this, that you don't understand what you don't believe in.

Many animals have small waves of slight complexity gained and then slight complexity lost. This is most present in "living fossils" like lingulas.

Originally posted by thatoneband777

Originally posted by TConwell

Excellent argument CoasterKidMWM ... very well presented.

Evolution. OK boys and girls - pay attention.

The facts:

1. We have a plethera of apes TODAY.
2. We have a plethera of humans TODAY.

The problem:

Why do we not have 1/2 human and 1/2 ape creatures TODAY?

The answer:

It is because the theory of evolution is crap. It falls apart at this very simple level. This is the one thing NO ONE can explain. From kiddies on a coaster board to expert scientists; no one can offer an explanation as to why we do not see those 1/2 and 1/2 creatures TODAY.

The lame excuse:

Create a fairy tale about a "missing link".

What kills this rationale:

Survival of the fitest is crap in this situation. Why? Apes do nothing for us today. It would seem that a higher functioning ape (a 1/2 and 1/2 creature) would be far more beneficial to the world than a dumb ape sitting in a cage. If anything, they could be trained to do yard work.

The final straw:

Let's say for argument sake that 85% of the world has been explored and documented TODAY. Are you telling me that the "missing link" is hidden somewhere in the unexplored 15%? Nonsense. If they were that smart they would have figured out a way to make themselves known to us TODAY.

Discussion over. Expect no more replies to this from me, you are merely wasting your time going on and on. Face it, you are seeking an explanation to justify your own existence, when there is only one thing that will fill the void in your life.

Proverbs 15:2 "The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly."

Pwned ... [flush]

And this is for Real alone -- if anyone gets this, he will and no it is not a flame kiddies so don't try to fan any flames.

Proverbs 26:4 "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself."

i agree 100% as a christion ....(lets not induse Faith into this)

We do have apes today, that is true, and we also have humans. NO organism is 1/2 human or 1/2 anything unless it has a serious deformation, in which case it probably would not survive. We do have transitional fossils, they are not 1/2 anything, they are complete organisms, just as we are. You say nobody can explain why we do not see transitional fossils (or 1/2 people), well, that is a load of crap. Thousands of fossils are found nearly every YEAR of fossils with the same genetic code of organisms today. I will link the Chimpanzee's ancestor to us for example. The modern chimpanzee and humans have retro viruses in common, a retro virus is a virus that clings onto the genes of an organism, and these viruses will also be passed along to offspring, so if your dad had one, so would you. Humans and Chimpanzees have SEVERAL retro viruses in common, and on the same genes, some creationists have pointed out to me that the DNA of humans and chimps is similar so it could have effected certain genes, but the genes a retro virus attaches to is completely random. Some creationists have also brought up that the chimpanzee has 48 chromosomes and that people have 46, so the common ancestor could only have 46 or 48, well the ancestor had 48 chromosomes, and humans are still indeed related. Human Chromosome #2 is a fused chromosome, a pair of chromosomes fused together, this explains why humans do not have 24 pairs, and why we have 23. So there goes your NOONE can explain the missing link crap... And there is no "fairy tale" about a missing link, other then those created by creationists. And creationists make jokes saying evolution is an impossible fairy tale...

Survival of the fittest crap? I fail to see how survival of the fittest is crap, even with your bogus explanation. I have already told you that there are no 1/2 creatures (an common ancestor between humans and apes is not 1/2 human 1/2 ape). Indeed, apes could be trained to do yard work, as you say, but would not a higher functioning dog be able to cook breakfast? and a higher functioning human be able to understand evolution and prove it as fact? Apes are not dumb, in comparison to humans they are, but they are not dumb. And simply saying that there are more fit organisms to do the job, you make it seem like, according to survival of the fittest, today, only the one most fit organisms should be alive, and that is not true. Just because you do not have an ape grilling a steak in your back yard for you, does not mean survival of the fittest is wrong.

Lets say 85% of the world has been documented, well then, we do not need to document the other 15% for evolution, because we already found these missing links, granted, not all organisms leave fossils in every condition, so some organisms that have existed we may not know about yet, which is why we will continue to document the other 15%.

Discussion over. You are merely wasting your time going on and on. Face it, you are seeking an explanation to justify your own existence, When the meaning of life is to give life meaning, you want more, and from your flawed view of the world today, you miss the facts completely.

Proverbs 15:2 "The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly."

By your own words, you are a fool.

Originally posted by hyyyper

Just take a biology class in highschool, be open minden, find the logic and i'm sure you'll see the 'other light'.
And how is god true is any way? can you back it up, doesn't have to be proof, but any evidence at all? or do you just feel it?

High school ended 18 years ago for me. As far as how can I prove God ... well ... I know what He has done for me in MY life, and there is one thing that you cannot argue with, NO ONE can tell me what has NOT happened to me, when I was the one who was there. I know what He has done for me, and that is all I will ever need as far as proof to strengthen my faith.

Originally posted by bicoastalkid

Herein lies your ignorance. The entire point of conversation is to gain "a common frame of reference" or to at least understand the differences between each other. You seemingly don't attempt either. You think you're right and everybody who disagrees with you is wrong and you speak in a tone that comes across as disgustingly superior. You entered this conversation without accepting the possibility you may be proven wrong. You demonstrate a complete lack of desire for understanding or education. You hide behind your scripture and use it as an excuse to not seek further understanding of the subject at hand. However, your understanding of science does not affect your beliefs, or it shouldn't if you are confident in them as you seem, so I don't understand why you seem so unwilling to take this chance to learn something.

Also, that was not a flame. Unlike others, I do not try to prove your belief incorrect. I simply point out that you are incorrect about mine. Never once did I say "creationism is dumb" or anything related, because that's not my opinion. Creationism has just as much validity as any scientific ideas, I simply choose to go with what can be observed as opposed to something that is purely faith-based.

If anything, I should have taken any post in this thread saying that evolution is illogical or weak as a flame. Unlike you, I countered by pointing out that you are misinformed and NOT by attempting to debase your beliefs. If I wanted to, I could call into question whether or not the Bible could be used as a "factual basis" for your arguments, but I'm not going to because I'm better than that.

You have actually come off very good in this, and I appreciate your insight. Read on and I will explain myself further at the end of this post. To reiterate though, as far as how can I prove God ... well ... I know what He has done for me in MY life, and there is one thing that you cannot argue with, NO ONE can tell me what has NOT happened to me, when I was the one who was there. I know what He has done for me, and that is all I will ever need as far as proof to strengthen my faith.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Tconwell I appreciate your comments about me bringing "new science" or whatever wording you used, however all it shows is that since you had never heard of this, that you don't understand what you don't believe in.

Completely untrue. I know what I believe in, 100%, and I understand what I do not believe it, more than you will ever comprehend my friend. There is no doubt in my mind about anything, do not ever assume to know what is going on in my mind ... last time I checked you have never met me, and you have never lived 2 seconds in my shoes, therefore, you cannot tell me what I do and do not know. One more time ... as far as how can I prove God ... well ... I know what He has done for me in MY life, and there is one thing that you cannot argue with, NO ONE can tell me what has NOT happened to me, when I was the one who was there. I know what He has done for me, and that is all I will ever need as far as proof to strengthen my faith.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

We do have apes today, that is true, and we also have humans. NO organism is 1/2 human or 1/2 anything unless it has a serious deformation, in which case it probably would not survive. We do have transitional fossils, they are not 1/2 anything, they are complete organisms, just as we are. You say nobody can explain why we do not see transitional fossils (or 1/2 people), well, that is a load of crap. Thousands of fossils are found nearly every YEAR of fossils with the same genetic code of organisms today. I will link the Chimpanzee's ancestor to us for example. The modern chimpanzee and humans have retro viruses in common, a retro virus is a virus that clings onto the genes of an organism, and these viruses will also be passed along to offspring, so if your dad had one, so would you. Humans and Chimpanzees have SEVERAL retro viruses in common, and on the same genes, some creationists have pointed out to me that the DNA of humans and chimps is similar so it could have effected certain genes, but the genes a retro virus attaches to is completely random. Some creationists have also brought up that the chimpanzee has 48 chromosomes and that people have 46, so the common ancestor could only have 46 or 48, well the ancestor had 48 chromosomes, and humans are still indeed related. Human Chromosome #2 is a fused chromosome, a pair of chromosomes fused together, this explains why humans do not have 24 pairs, and why we have 23. So there goes your NOONE can explain the missing link crap... And there is no "fairy tale" about a missing link, other then those created by creationists. And creationists make jokes saying evolution is an impossible fairy tale...

Survival of the fittest crap? I fail to see how survival of the fittest is crap, even with your bogus explanation. I have already told you that there are no 1/2 creatures (an common ancestor between humans and apes is not 1/2 human 1/2 ape). Indeed, apes could be trained to do yard work, as you say, but would not a higher functioning dog be able to cook breakfast? and a higher functioning human be able to understand evolution and prove it as fact? Apes are not dumb, in comparison to humans they are, but they are not dumb. And simply saying that there are more fit organisms to do the job, you make it seem like, according to survival of the fittest, today, only the one most fit organisms should be alive, and that is not true. Just because you do not have an ape grilling a steak in your back yard for you, does not mean survival of the fittest is wrong.

Lets say 85% of the world has been documented, well then, we do not need to document the other 15% for evolution, because we already found these missing links, granted, not all organisms leave fossils in every condition, so some organisms that have existed we may not know about yet, which is why we will continue to document the other 15%.

Discussion over. You are merely wasting your time going on and on. Face it, you are seeking an explanation to justify your own existence, When the meaning of life is to give life meaning, you want more, and from your flawed view of the world today, you miss the facts completely.

Proverbs 15:2 "The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly."

By your own words, you are a fool.

Wow, um, yeah ... read on.

Guys, listen up -- you are about to find out the reason for my posts, and in the same breath, about to be enlightened.

I don't care about your opinions of my faith. As far as I am concerned you make your own choices, live with them. I know where my choices have led me, and where my choices will take me when I die. There is NO question in my mind, and not even a shadow of doubt.

Now, here comes the enlightening. Ready?

You are all coming off exactly as I thought you would and my theory of what I was trying to do worked. Remember when I asked Calloway Park to trust me that there is something else going on here? Well .... here is what it is.

I had an assignment, and each of you has taken part in a very important discovery of how the brain reacts to being introduced to its own mirrored thoughts. When I defend my Master's Degree thesis, I will be sure to quote all of you and give you full credit. That's right! Your responses while blasting me with insults about my faith was all part of a bigger project.

If you recall I never attacked anyone, I merely posted a few general verses in conclusion to my thoughts about dealing with a fool. Never was anyone here called a fool, but some immediately took my posts to mean I was talking about them specifically and had to respond with blastings. I could have used any verse in the bible from 66 different books, and yet the verses that dealt with a fool sparked a negative response. Interesting, isn't it?

Honestly kids (I can say that because most of you are as old as my oldest kid), I could not have hoped for better results if I had created this thread myself. Certainly, this gives me all the evidence I need when asked to respond to the question, "Has man really evolved?" (this was the thesis topic).

I think you can see without me having to point out that the barbaric thought process of man is still very much in practice today. If evolution is true, we have certainly not come very far. In short, if you don't agree with it, destroy it. Isn't that how we do things here at the old coaster site?

Sub question: Is it evolution or business as usual? (grunt grunt grunt)

Anyway, thanks for your help.

Now, for those that may wonder, my first Master's will be in Theology (M.TH.) and to clarify ... yes CKMWM, I have heard all of this before -- about 7 years ago when I decided to start my Bachelor's degree. The second Master's degree (est completion in 2010) will be a Masters of Divinity in Pastoral Counseling.

Thanks guys for giving more than 6 pages of thought provoking data. I really appreciate it. This is better than reading articles listed by Google any day of the week. [approve]

Cheers fellas.

[coolbeans326]

^ Haha. That makes me laugh. And this whole time I thought it was just the name of some roller coaster until I actually had a look today.

All I can say is that God must've been a pretty damn creative man if he could create billions upon billions of different creatures in 6 days.

[coolbeans326]

^ Um... God is not a man.[;)]

Hence.. he's not able to just walk through your front door and then *poof* "Hey I'm God, I just poofed you some flowers for that nice table set you have there"

I think the main problem with people who say that there is no God is simply they just don't understand what God is, but its ok, the subject isn't God it's evolution.

I say we came from termites and then we waged a thousand year war against them. After we were defeated we were banished from our species and were forced to evolve into humans. What the termites didn't know is that we would devolop pestacides. As a result the war continues from now until one of us dies.

And dont forget about all of the amazing candy and cartoons that were made as well!!!

This isnt pointed at anyone in specific, but people need to get outside and enjoy the outdoors a little and get a nice big breath of fresh air and see the beauty of it all. I think being on the computer and online all the time doesnt let their minds grow and blossom like the beautiful flowers they are!!! Im not saying at all anything like people need to see the light or something (religion), because I myself am still figuring things out on my own about what I believe (growing up with parents of different religions), but when im outside you can really enjoy nature and life a little more than all angry online.

People just need to stop thinking they know everything, expecially people so young that really havent had the experience or wisdom to at least enjoy life for its beauty, whether a believer in god or not.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Hey so I didn't diss religion in my posts.

Originally posted by CalawayPark

All I can say is that God must've been a pretty damn creative man if he could create billions upon billions of different creatures in 6 days.

I think rather that 6 days is a metaphore or analogy. I still believe in Intelligent Design, but we dont know what a day is to God. And its probably easier for our feeble minds to wrap around that than trying to explain whatever else it could be.

IF397 - I wasnt talking to you when I made my paragraph about mutations or magic, that was for someone else


The rest of you...Most of you are using your own world view against Tcon and I. Most of what we say, no matter how we say it comes across as arrogent, provoking and you assume we are out to change you. Wrong.

I can tell what your world view is because you guys chime in even before we do. Youve created your views on christians and pastors alike from most likly some bad sources. You wouldnt chime in with the kind of ridiculous posts and completely uncooperative if you didnt already have a predjidice towards us. Not as persons, but what we believe.

See, if we believed in ANYTHING else (except maybe extremist islam) you wouldnt care. Why? Because most other beliefs dont have as many fake, pyscho radical morons making fools of themselves then proclaiming Christianity behind it.


Those of you accusing him of trying to force his beliefs on you are just as guilty because youve spent as much time as him or more doing the same right back - trying to disprove him.


DragonFly - I actually feel for you. I think its sad, but humorous when you and others make statements claiming that "discussion is over" and that "Youve ended the discussion on evolution" when infact, even the scientific world will tell you their search is FAR from over. So good job making a fool of yourself there.

And to top it off, if we continue on at the rate in which we clear forests, destroy waters and ahnihilate the air - we WILL be the only creatures left. Some will try to adapt but Im sure wed kill them too. So in the very end, humans WOULD be the only organism left. So you proved my theory correct.

And for the record, I dont think Ive even mentioned apes in any of my posts. Ive tried to take in the science here and even gave a very, very good link to a scientist who has a very interesting view on Intelligent Design and Evolution. But go figure, didnt look like anyone cared to read. Must be too busy telling yourself you have the answers instead of doing that thing..uh...oh yea, being open minded.



I apologize for my sarcasm as Ive tried to keep it at a bare minimum but it went from a discussion and turned into a flame war where we have a 16 year old who claims to have the end-all of knowledge concerning a theory thats still in development and others - some not even in college - who also make very bold claims.

When you guys start relying on quotes of real scientists who actually do the study and research instead of paraphrasing what youve seen, read or heard and actually have some credibility to your thoughts - well all listen. But right now it just sounds like everyone here is some sort of scientist whos devoted their lives to the study of evolution. Which, you havent.

Capeesh? Capeesh.

Originally posted by Symbiotic
People just need to stop thinking they know everything, expecially people so young that really havent had the experience or wisdom to at least enjoy life for its beauty, whether a believer in god or not.

DUDE! Great Minds think alike...thats almost freaky.

[coolbeans326]

Alright we'll end this discussion with Real's post.

We have more then enough controversy in the forums right now.

[hyyyper]

Some last things i want to point out (before the topic gets locked or something)

Um, Tcon, i don't know how you can be totaly sure of something because you feel it's right. You remind me of medevil persons saying that the earth is flat because they felt it was right.
Anyways, i just want to point out that i never wanted anything else than to share my insight on evolution. And for the most i've stuck with that. The fool quotes are biblical, even if they were from a fairy tale book, i found it in no way offending or the be applied on anyone.
I also don't give a damn about someone beliefs, if they have feel good about it and use it 'for religious porposes only' it's fine to me. But if you post (have posted) your view in this topic, I would have reacted how i think it is/went/was/is gonna be. I certainly tried not to flame anyone, at least i did not have the intention, it was merely to get a good(better) counter-argument against my post.
As Real said, the discussion is indeed far from over. Even if someone has good a wall of proof where nobody can get around, there will allways be the discussion, whether it's about 'if it's true?' or about 'how did it actually go?'.
As for not quoting scientist...as opposed to opinions and biblical quotes?

[jayman]

he never said he could convince YOU he simply stated that he was sure.
and how the heck did this get opened up again?

hyyper is not going to heaven[lol][V][V][devilish]

watch this its sort of funny...but it proves in a way Creationism is truehttp://youtube.com/watch?v=WIeLRD1L9yY

Originally posted by hyyyper
The fool quotes are biblical, even if they were from a fairy tale book, i found it in no way offending or the be applied on anyone.

As for not quoting scientist...as opposed to opinions and biblical quotes?

I wasnt quoting the bible...and thats better than quoting yourself.
An entire section of Proverbs is devoted to wisdom and knowledge. It shows how one can be full of wisdom and full of knowledge.

Such as...

Proverbs 12:1
Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid.

12:16
A fool is quick-tempered, but a wise person stays calm when insulted.

13:10
Pride leads to arguments; those who take advice are wise.

Chapters 10 through like 15 are filled with very wise statements as these. I also havent seen a single controversial one concerning the use of your language and how and when to speak. Ever wonder why normally people who are quieter tend to be thought of as smarter? or wiser? Its just human nature because we learn early on that people who always talk are generally just fools who run their mouths.

How, what and when you speak can tell almost everything about you. So, before you dismiss that book in the bible, read it first. Its got alot of very basic truths concerning human nature and to be wise and full of knowledge.


coolbeans - nah, dont pull the lame way out and end the discussion. As much as I would love to be the person who ended the discussion with that post - I still think some people need to read it and respond. I think a re-ordering of some peoples minds is in order if this will continue to be something we can talk about civily. But they have to leave their baggage at the door like I and only a couple others have.

[hyyyper]

Real, please don't get me wrong. I'm not at all dismissing the bible, the quotes from that book are not wrong, i never said they were. I was trying to say that they are not relevant to the 'evolution-religion'-debate. And i know you never quoted the bible, that was directed at Tcon, sorry for not including that in the post.

And i'm actually a rather quiet person

Originally posted by thatoneband777

watch this its sort of funny...but it proves in a way Creationism is truehttp://youtube.com/watch?v=WIeLRD1L9yY

Kent Hovind is an idiot, and I will tell you why. He is able to make an argument that sounds scientific but is full of assumptions and flat out false evidence. There is absolutely NO evidence that creationism is true.

First off, he says evolution is the dumbest religion in humanity, with the overwhelming amount of evidence in support of evolution I do not understand why he says this, other then that he is a creationist. He states that people that do not believe in god think of themselves as god, not true.

His first argument that gets set forth, incredible design must have intelligent designer. He makes the assumption that God is the reason of the universe's existence, and was created by God. First, lets say the universe was "created", Why must a living being (in the sense god is living) have created where as a non-living force could get the same job done? Why can the universe not be infinite if God is? Take an underwater cave, is the pressure of water the almighty designer of this cave? Is the water intelligent?

In his 4 great questions, he states that from an evolutionists point of view, humans mean nothing, and are not significant, to this I answer yes and no. No human will make a difference in the outcome of the entire universe, and everything you do is not important, but it is still important that you do it. Humans are actually very significant in regards to life, as we are the most intelligent forms of life we know of, and our intelligence alone sets us apart from so many of the life we know of.

Then Kent goes on stating that evolutionists think the universe and people came from a "cosmic burp" 20 billion years ago, well, he is refering to the big bang, and the universe is 13.7 billion years old, not 20, but thats nitpicking. And life began on Earth 3 or so billion years ago, not 13.7 (Earth is only 4.5 billion years old)

He states that Satan started evolution and that evolution makes us God, well this contradicts his theory that evolutionists think they are not significant, and it is a load of bull. Evolution makes organisms evolve into more sophisticated organisms, not into gods.

He states that if the moon was 4 billion years old, the moon would have 60 miles of dust, and all the scientists made this speculation, that is VERY false. Some scientists speculated massive amounts of dust, but immediately took back these claims after realizing they were using Earth's atmosphere for the equations.

He states that a lie must be mixed in with truth to be a plausible lie, which is exactly the technique he uses, some of the time, most of the time it is entirely false.

He states several different meanings of the word evolution:

1. Cosmic - Big Bang

2. Chemical - origin of elements

3. Organic - origin of life (which he says no scientist has a clue happened on Earth, which, is creationist bull crap)

4. and 5. Macro evolution and MICRO evolution (A term he just made up, there is no MACROevolution or MICROevolution, JUST EVOLUTION.)

He only agrees with microevolution, which is his own made up definition of evolution he made.

He states there are only 2 choices to Earth's existence, it made itself, or God did it. Well, just like stars, it formed from massive amount of elements getting together, but lets move on from this.

He states that none of 130 scientists wanted to debate him because they all knew he was right and they were wrong, FALSE, he made this up entirely.

He states that evolution means we came from a rock, which is false, the Earth is not a rock...

It is clear he makes up all the conversations, because no scientist says the Earth is 20 billion years old. He states that the creationist God is the evolutionist dirt, and that evolution is religion, that is BULL CRAP.

Hovind is more of a comedian than a scientists, and his jokes are not funny. The banana arguement is bull as well, the modern banana formed under ARTIFICIAL SELECTION, and was not always as it is, take a wild banana for example.


Then he goes on trying to prove that the Earth is 6000 years old, and this video can put in words far betting then me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA8EAPThmkE

Crap, I do not want to do the other parts of his videos, but I guess that this is enough, though I spot a few spelling errors and a couple mistakes, the point is given.

Well, your age shines through. As I said earlier, you are depending on your own knowledge instead of others - especially when I doubt you actively do testing on the subject...

So:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microevolution

He states that none of 130 scientists wanted to debate him because they all knew he was right and they were wrong, FALSE, he made this up entirely.

Did you ask him or the 130 scientists?

And how on earth can you measure when the universe started? You say all these things like you really know them...but its hard to believe coming from a 16 year old. If you were like 40 and had 10 years of experience researching this stuff - then Id believe ya. But I find too much on the net to contradict you.

http://superstringtheory.com/cosmo/cosmo1.html
Probably at least 15 billion and up to 20.

It appears your number comes from NASA...which, lol. Anyways, quoting them reguarding their number "If current ideas about the origin of large-scale structure are correct" Oh. An "If" statement. Thats comforting.

Also quoted from Wiki: It is not yet clear whether these ideas are testable, even in principle.

Not even testable? Come on now...You cant "test" God, so he must not be real. You cant test the age of the universe - but we can come up with a number and throw it around like its for real.

And its all still what we know now. How do we know the telescopes we have are seeing as far as we need them too? We only know whats within our little bubble. Considering the universe is infinite, try to wrap your brain around that. We think we can date the universe and weve got not even a clue how much weve even "mapped" considering infinite is forever and our equipment definatly cant see forever.

This sort of thing bothers me. We shouldnt be throwing this kind of data around like its fact. There should be huge astericks behind all of that.