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This is another classic example of the "keep changing the name so our goofy legislation will pass" theory in real life.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/95/SB/09500SB1463.htm
"In each public school classroom the teacher in charge shall may observe a brief period of silence with the participation of all the pupils therein assembled at the opening of every school day. This period shall not be conducted as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity for silent prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities of the day."
How is silent prayer not religious exercise?
Board index ‹ Off Topic Board ‹ Off Topic Discussion ‹ It's sneaking in....
October 18th, 2007, 11:38 am
![[lol]](https://www.coastercrazy.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_e_ugeek.gif "test")
See, North Korea? U.S.A. government isn't that much smarter than any other country's...
The definition of the word "May" is: permissive.
This means it is allowed should the class leader (as stated) choose to give that opportunity.
The definition of the word "Opportunity" is: A possibility due to a favorable combination of circumstances.
This means, it is offered should one want to receive or exercise this.
The definition of the word "Reflection" is: contemplation: a calm lengthy intent consideration.
The best thing about America is that for that one moment in time, you can stand there and pick your nose for all anyone cares. In North Korea, you don't have that "opportunity" (play on words intended). No one said you have to pray, just stand or sit there and shut up ... hmmmm, wonder if we could get that extended for more than one moment.
That is all I have to offer on this, Gentlemen.
Of all the things to stand on and attempt to use to prove a point, 60 seconds of silence because kids ought to be learning is well ...... I don't know what it is. Call that time whatever you want, having kids just be silent and gather their thoughts is not a bad thing, IMHO.
Amen brother!
Funny how that never seems to be the point.
Little things like this, constantly lowering academic standards to pass more kids because it isn't nice to let someone who failed not fail, etc etc are reasons why the USA is lagging horribly behind in academics compared to many other developed countries. Go to a college campus. A good portion of many professors are immigrants with an accents, especially in the math and science departments. The entire chemistry department in my college is composed of immigrants from India and a man from Georgia. This will continue to be the trend and will only get worse if crap like this is allowed to slide. This is also why Americans seem to be getting "dumber" all the time compared to other places.
Last time I checked most high schools have a thing called a passing period. Basically if you're not late to class you're early, since if you arrive to class on time you get stern looks from the teacher who has just started his/her lesson. Pray during that idle time before class, or like I said earlier, after class. This is an unneeded waste of time.
I do agree that this isn't the biggest of deals but I am a strong believer that little things do add up substantially over time. Any fool can read between the lines on this one and see what the intent is.
Also I didn't catch this until now, but the legislation edited the text so that the word "may" is crossed out and "shall" is underlined.
Thanks for the attempted flame.
Now, a moment of reflection has WHAT, exactly, to do with lowering academic standards? My friend (and I mean that Matt cause honestly, I don't want to fight with you), you are mixing apples and pancakes here. As far as the intent of this proposed legislation ... one woman had prayer removed from school for speaking her intent ... so with that logic, one man's adding in reflection time amounts to the same thing. You have to either support ALL forms of freedom of expression or none -- you honestly cannot pick and choose bud. Those whole first five Amendments really are a bear to implement, eh? I mean, seriously, I have friends who are teachers and they are in at the ground level of this decline in academics. As a college student I respect your opinion and view on this ... but if you do not support the freedom to be silent for 60 seconds, that is your choice as well.
For someone who generally has decent views and is well educated you let this religious overtone pretty much permiate everything you see. You cant see or read anything without tainting it with a religious picture. Just because of that your views can never be taken seriously and/or taken as viewed from a neutral standpoint. Of course you can paint this to be a religious thing but I hardly think it is.
Also - its not eating into class time. You can extend the day by 30 seconds and no one knows the difference. Heck, there were days that the bell rang almost 5 minutes early from the day before. What do you call that?
Really ckwmn, when you can learn to look at something like this from without the religious overtone you might start to really see the world in a different light. I can see where you get that from, but its completely just being blown out of proportion. This world is as godless as its ever been (though probably no different throughout time) and it wont go back to praying in class. Just wont happen.
No. A free period is required in most schools and you're supposed to do as you please within guidelines. It can be spent studying, hanging out with friends whatever. If the prayer is that important to them they should choose do it then instead of everyone being forced to waste time in the morning.
We don't get one...
It's sneaking in....
38 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
October 18th, 2007, 11:38 am
Last edited by Coasterkidmwm on October 18th, 2007, 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
and again
and again
Rarwh
See, North Korea? U.S.A. government isn't that much smarter than any other country's...
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4-Skyrush | 5-Iron Rattler | 6-X2 | 7-Kingda Ka
8-Voyage | 9-Maverick | 10-Monster
161
4-Skyrush | 5-Iron Rattler | 6-X2 | 7-Kingda Ka
8-Voyage | 9-Maverick | 10-Monster
161
Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/95/SB/09500SB1463.htm
"In each public school classroom the teacher in charge shall may observe a brief period of silence with the participation of all the pupils therein assembled at the opening of every school day. This period shall not be conducted as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity for silent prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities of the day."
How is silent prayer not religious exercise?
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/95/SB/09500SB1463.htm
"In each public school classroom the teacher in charge shall may observe a brief period of silence with the participation of all the pupils therein assembled at the opening of every school day. This period shall not be conducted as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity for silent prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities of the day."
How is silent prayer not religious exercise?
This means it is allowed should the class leader (as stated) choose to give that opportunity.
The definition of the word "Opportunity" is: A possibility due to a favorable combination of circumstances.
This means, it is offered should one want to receive or exercise this.
The definition of the word "Reflection" is: contemplation: a calm lengthy intent consideration.
The best thing about America is that for that one moment in time, you can stand there and pick your nose for all anyone cares. In North Korea, you don't have that "opportunity" (play on words intended). No one said you have to pray, just stand or sit there and shut up ... hmmmm, wonder if we could get that extended for more than one moment.
That is all I have to offer on this, Gentlemen.
Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all.
Or you could reflect on things BEFORE class instead of taking away class time to do it when you're supposed to be learning.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
And as I said over at another site - the children of today DO need to be taught how to take moments out of their insanely busy lives to think and reflect. Its not taking away from any learning because Im fairly certain that more than 30 seconds every single day, per class are wasted in some form of "non-learning". My school dedicated 15 whole minutes to letting kids get something to eat in the morning after 1st period because they recognized that most do not eat before they come to school. So giving them the chance when they wake up and are at school actually increases their learning potential and readiness.
Look at what students and people as a whole need instead of what you yourself want. In this instance, I cant think of anything but good coming from teaching students how to take a moment out of their busy lives to reflect, be calm and think.
Look at what students and people as a whole need instead of what you yourself want. In this instance, I cant think of anything but good coming from teaching students how to take a moment out of their busy lives to reflect, be calm and think.
Those moments are what the passing period, lunch, recess, before school, and after school are for.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
But lunch is about eating. Before school is hurrying around trying to get ready. Recess - if the school still has it - is about playtime. After school is hanging out with friends and doing homework.
Not about taking a moment to be still and settle your mind and heart. I am quite positive that schools that do this would even see an increase in alot of students grades and general demeanor.
If you tried looking at this from a non-religious standpoint you would easily see the benefits. But you consistantly let your brain taint everything with a religious overtone and you yourself blind yourself to the actual events here.
Not about taking a moment to be still and settle your mind and heart. I am quite positive that schools that do this would even see an increase in alot of students grades and general demeanor.
If you tried looking at this from a non-religious standpoint you would easily see the benefits. But you consistantly let your brain taint everything with a religious overtone and you yourself blind yourself to the actual events here.
Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm
Or you could reflect on things BEFORE class instead of taking away class time to do it when you're supposed to be learning.
Or you could reflect on things BEFORE class instead of taking away class time to do it when you're supposed to be learning.
Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all.
Originally posted by TConwell
Of all the things to stand on and attempt to use to prove a point, 60 seconds of silence because kids ought to be learning is well ...... I don't know what it is. Call that time whatever you want, having kids just be silent and gather their thoughts is not a bad thing, IMHO.
Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm
Or you could reflect on things BEFORE class instead of taking away class time to do it when you're supposed to be learning.
Or you could reflect on things BEFORE class instead of taking away class time to do it when you're supposed to be learning.
Amen brother!
Originally posted by TConwell
That is all I have to offer on this, Gentlemen.
That is all I have to offer on this, Gentlemen.
Funny how that never seems to be the point.
Originally posted by TConwell
60 seconds of silence because kids ought to be learning is well ...... I don't know what it is.
60 seconds of silence because kids ought to be learning is well ...... I don't know what it is.
Little things like this, constantly lowering academic standards to pass more kids because it isn't nice to let someone who failed not fail, etc etc are reasons why the USA is lagging horribly behind in academics compared to many other developed countries. Go to a college campus. A good portion of many professors are immigrants with an accents, especially in the math and science departments. The entire chemistry department in my college is composed of immigrants from India and a man from Georgia. This will continue to be the trend and will only get worse if crap like this is allowed to slide. This is also why Americans seem to be getting "dumber" all the time compared to other places.
Last time I checked most high schools have a thing called a passing period. Basically if you're not late to class you're early, since if you arrive to class on time you get stern looks from the teacher who has just started his/her lesson. Pray during that idle time before class, or like I said earlier, after class. This is an unneeded waste of time.
I do agree that this isn't the biggest of deals but I am a strong believer that little things do add up substantially over time. Any fool can read between the lines on this one and see what the intent is.
Also I didn't catch this until now, but the legislation edited the text so that the word "may" is crossed out and "shall" is underlined.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm
Funny how that never seems to be the point.
Originally posted by TConwell
That is all I have to offer on this, Gentlemen.
That is all I have to offer on this, Gentlemen.
Funny how that never seems to be the point.
Now, a moment of reflection has WHAT, exactly, to do with lowering academic standards? My friend (and I mean that Matt cause honestly, I don't want to fight with you), you are mixing apples and pancakes here. As far as the intent of this proposed legislation ... one woman had prayer removed from school for speaking her intent ... so with that logic, one man's adding in reflection time amounts to the same thing. You have to either support ALL forms of freedom of expression or none -- you honestly cannot pick and choose bud. Those whole first five Amendments really are a bear to implement, eh? I mean, seriously, I have friends who are teachers and they are in at the ground level of this decline in academics. As a college student I respect your opinion and view on this ... but if you do not support the freedom to be silent for 60 seconds, that is your choice as well.
Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all.
imo they should have left the words silent prayer out and just left silent reflection there. But that's just the separation of church and state speaking within me
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Now, that I can agree with. Again, this is why I said "call it whatever you want".
Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all.
I compared it to lowering academic standards because cutting class time for something like this is draining on the experience as a whole. When older people say they did more work than I did in high school I believe them. Less class time = less work.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
I get that man. Next time someone has to go to the bathroom during class, we can simply give them a cup and ask them to continue paying attention, right?
Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all.
This is a good thing.
My school is constantly busy, and I've applied for a job which is 4 to 9, so basically my day will go like this assuming I get the job.
Get up at seven, take a shower, prepare for school/after school activities, and walk to school- leave before 8:10 [Bell rings at 8:30]
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
55 minute lunch, 5 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
Pack homework, walk home.
Eat.
Put on work clothes and leave.
Work till 9
Do homework.
Eat.
Go to sleep at 11.
That little tiny break however small it may be creates a time just to sit there and think where your mind isn't focused on one specific thing, you can just reflect on what's going on.
When you don't have time out of your day to do that it gets hectic...
My school is constantly busy, and I've applied for a job which is 4 to 9, so basically my day will go like this assuming I get the job.
Get up at seven, take a shower, prepare for school/after school activities, and walk to school- leave before 8:10 [Bell rings at 8:30]
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
55 minute lunch, 5 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
57 minute class, 3 minutes between classes.
Pack homework, walk home.
Eat.
Put on work clothes and leave.
Work till 9
Do homework.
Eat.
Go to sleep at 11.
That little tiny break however small it may be creates a time just to sit there and think where your mind isn't focused on one specific thing, you can just reflect on what's going on.
When you don't have time out of your day to do that it gets hectic...
Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm
I do agree that this isn't the biggest of deals but I am a strong believer that little things do add up substantially over time. Any fool can read between the lines on this one and see what the intent is.
I do agree that this isn't the biggest of deals but I am a strong believer that little things do add up substantially over time. Any fool can read between the lines on this one and see what the intent is.
For someone who generally has decent views and is well educated you let this religious overtone pretty much permiate everything you see. You cant see or read anything without tainting it with a religious picture. Just because of that your views can never be taken seriously and/or taken as viewed from a neutral standpoint. Of course you can paint this to be a religious thing but I hardly think it is.
Also - its not eating into class time. You can extend the day by 30 seconds and no one knows the difference. Heck, there were days that the bell rang almost 5 minutes early from the day before. What do you call that?
Really ckwmn, when you can learn to look at something like this from without the religious overtone you might start to really see the world in a different light. I can see where you get that from, but its completely just being blown out of proportion. This world is as godless as its ever been (though probably no different throughout time) and it wont go back to praying in class. Just wont happen.
dude the moment of silence in our schools are like 10 seconds, you can't tell me that's really interfering with my lerning expierence, 10 seconds a day. some days the announcements are 10 seconds longer because they have more stuff to say, you're acting like it's taking over the world and were getting nothing done because were standing in silence.........
30 Seconds per day
5 x 30 per week = 150 seconds per week
That means 40 x 150 = 6000 seconds per school year
100 minutes wasted per year
1hr 40m per year.
5 x 30 per week = 150 seconds per week
That means 40 x 150 = 6000 seconds per school year
100 minutes wasted per year
1hr 40m per year.
Could someone please give me a good reason as to why this cannot be done before, after, or during a free period in school?
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
Other than the legislation not asking for it to be done at that time? Not really.
Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all.
Ahh, but wouldnt a free period basically be wasting time for learning?
It cannot be done before or after as well because its something thats not taught. Kids ARE learning something here. How to settle their brains down for a moment and take a minute to even just reflect or think about the day ahead or the day behind.
If you do before or after - thats good. But the vast majority of people do not take even 1 minute out of each day to meditate for just a moment on even the current situation of their lives.
It cannot be done before or after as well because its something thats not taught. Kids ARE learning something here. How to settle their brains down for a moment and take a minute to even just reflect or think about the day ahead or the day behind.
If you do before or after - thats good. But the vast majority of people do not take even 1 minute out of each day to meditate for just a moment on even the current situation of their lives.
Originally posted by Real
Ahh, but wouldnt a free period basically be wasting time for learning?
Ahh, but wouldnt a free period basically be wasting time for learning?
No. A free period is required in most schools and you're supposed to do as you please within guidelines. It can be spent studying, hanging out with friends whatever. If the prayer is that important to them they should choose do it then instead of everyone being forced to waste time in the morning.
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"
Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm
No. A free period is required in most schools and you're supposed to do as you please within guidelines. It can be spent studying, hanging out with friends whatever. If the prayer is that important to them they should choose do it then instead of everyone being forced to waste time in the morning.
Originally posted by Real
Ahh, but wouldnt a free period basically be wasting time for learning?
Ahh, but wouldnt a free period basically be wasting time for learning?
No. A free period is required in most schools and you're supposed to do as you please within guidelines. It can be spent studying, hanging out with friends whatever. If the prayer is that important to them they should choose do it then instead of everyone being forced to waste time in the morning.
We don't get one...
38 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
