oh,,, yeah..i want to join this religion..

Read it again Jay; it says "inability to tell the same story" ... no goofing there, bud.

[jayman]

no, it says joseph smith..
wrong cult, by about 80 years..
i'm a couple k miles away and im expecting at any moment to hear the sound of your hand slapping your forehead accompanied by a loud "DOH!"
but you're right about them too.. any religion that starts with "hey guys, i found these scriptures in a cave and i've translated them for you, but i'm not allowed to show any of the original to you", is prety fishy in my opinion.. christians have, in my opinion, had ALL their cards on the table for a couple thousand years..
letsa put it this way..
putting all the periphrials aside (morality, politics etc) at it's core the message of christianity has always been one of love and grace for all. compared to any other diety based religion it certainly should be the last one to be as criticized as it is..

[jayman]

Originally posted by Real

I still find it amusing - and disappointing - that the general public is still brainwashed into believing that Christianity supports denying the rights of gays, blowing up medical facilities and all of these other incredibly radical sects.

Have you not heard enough from myself or Tcon? Or is it that all of this vast logic I hear alot of people profess about is really just blinded by your own inability to decifer between truth and non-truth?

It doesnt take half a brain to realize that not all muslims are as crazy as the extremists that perform all these bombings. Just the same it should be when you hear of crazy, ridiculous and logic defying acts such as the one that started this thread.


The real danger is when you let - and believe - the general human race tell you how Jesus would act. You could say "Well how do you know you arent crazy yourself?" and I would reply that Im probably a little crazy compared to the regular human race as well. However, compassion and love moves infront of Jesus - not condemnation and judgement.

Infact, the only condenmnation should come AGAINST the crazy sects of christianity. Most of Jesus "woes" and targeting people was targeting the uber-religious groups who had put their own religiousness before God and others. They had great intentions but their execution was horrible. So really Jesus never targeted the non-believer. He targeted the already "religious" people who claimed to follow God and understood that THEY are the problem - not the agnostics, atheists and other religions of His day.


So again, Im still amazed that the word "Christian" still gets lumped into the extremist category. Thats about as naive as claiming that all muslims are terrorists.

jesus would be like "woe to them who refuse the blood transfusion, for they shall die" one of his best freinds , and biographer, is described historically as a doctor of sorts..

I cant find anything about Joseph Smith being related to JWs

[Kev]

^that's because he's not.

It's Charles Russell ... my bad. That'll teach me to answer this type of stuff while working on something totally different.

"The Jehovah's Witness religion originated in America with Charles Taze Russell who was known for making prophesies that did not come true. His followers were called Bible Students."

Edit: Here is some interesting reading if you are in the mood:

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/JW.html

Originally posted by hyyyper

religion sucks balls anyway....

I agree. Religions, in my opinion, are stupid. The religious people over in Iraq - terrorists because of religion. Christians - "If you don't believe in god, you will die in 2012"; like I believe that; and plus, "If you don't believe in god, you will go to hell." How does that work? There are TWO things wrong with that. 1: If I don't believe in god, I don't believe in Christianity. Therefore, I don't have a Christian God to believe in; Therefore, I don't believe in Hell, so how the hell, in my mind, can I go there if it doesn't exist (in my beliefs)? And 2: If you don't believe in God, you will go to hell; so everybody else in the entire world, all people of quote "Gods creations" are going to die, because they believe in a different religion. Yes, that makes PERFECT sense to me.

I rest my case.

Originally posted by Kyle Sloane


Its preety easy all you have to do is beilive and trust in Jesus&God and accept him. The reward, Eternal live.

It's not easy, Kyle. Not everybody agrees with Christianity.

Ah, let the flaming begin. My oh my ... it only took three pages this time -- it's getting faster by golly!!

Edit: Very true Gerst, it is not easy, and it is still a personal choice.

This is what I love:
"I don't believe in hell."
My response? "Good!!"

So with that logic in place, why not say: "I don't believe in Mack Trucks."
Then, once you have that doctrine soundly in place, go stand on the interstate and see what happens.

The lesson: It is not required that YOU believe for something to true.

Well you believe hell exists just as much as I believe it doesn't. Therefore, it could be true, it could not be. Mack Trucks, there is solid evidence. If you have a nice video fly-through of hell laying around with specs and information, then I will reconsider my thinking.

When you get there, you can tell me about it. That was a joke, so don't take it as a flame, tie.

Seriously man, I ain't gonna argue with you cause well, you ought to have read at least one of these discussions before judging by your post count. Let's just stop being so cynical about what others believe and accept this one idea: It is a choice. You choose your way, others choose there way ... and in the end, it is TJ's (that's me) hope for YOU that YOUR choice is right. That's all I would ever wish for anyone bro.

Originally posted by TConwell

accept this one idea: It is a choice. You choose your way, others choose there way ...

We really need you the next time a Handbuilder vs Tooler fight comes up...

I have been in that discussion about 3 years before you thought about joining this board Gerst ... no thanks.

^Haha.

Tcon, yes, it is a choice. The problem is, you already know my choice, and you, with your beliefs, already know it is wrong.

I actually didn't think about joining this board...Had I took some time to wonder about what I could possibly be getting myself in to, I would not be here.

[Kev]

a quick tip for all of you regarding JW. If they knock on your door, be EXTREMELY rude to them. I know that sounds awful... and I had a hard time with it too, because I'd rather deal with everyone in a nice and productive way. You have to be that way with them though, because if you show any sort of kindness to them, they will never leave you alone afterward.

For all of the stories regarding JW's beliefs... you would be surprised to know that most of what you hear about them isn't true. Their beliefs are nearly identical to all other christian groups out there. Of course, they would never admit to that since they believe they are the 'one true christian faith'. They do have some quirky ideas though... the blood transfusion thing being one of them. The thing that disgusts me the most about them though is their attitude toward people who don't share their beliefs... particularly people who have been part of it at one time, and decided to move on to something else. These people in particular will cease to exist to Jehovah's Witnesses... it doesn't matter who they are. For example... when I was growing up, my sister became dis-fellowshipped from the church for doing something that they considered wrong. Afterward, members of my own family wouldn't even talk to her anymore. Even if she was to say something directly to them, they would turn away as if she wasn't even there.

A really chuffed up group of people. I was so glad to get away from all that as soon as I could. Aside from the fact that I could never truly be myself around them without being outcast... I wouldn't have wanted to be around them anyway.

Originally posted by tiepilot35

^Haha.
Tcon, yes, it is a choice. The problem is, you already know my choice, and you, with your beliefs, already know it is wrong.

Again, you assume my friend facts not entered into evidence. I never said you are wrong or that "it" is wrong, so quit being so defensive and automatically going into a state of "panties in a wad" because you think I am about to pounce. I'm not. I'm too dang old and tired to continue to go in circles over this.

I merely said "choose" ... that's all. Perhaps I have changed my philosophy on this Tie and well, whatever ways I have tried before have NOT worked to make my point, so I continue to be a witness and try other ways to say the same thing. However, I have never said that it is "wrong" per say, but I have said that I disagree with what other choose.

It really is that simple, it is your choice. So choose, and be happy; and it is my desire from the bottom of my heart that your choice is the right one, for you.

And Kev, I am sorry to hear about the way your family was treated -- no matter what the case, it is never right to turn away like that from anyone -- especially if "forgiveness" is the "doctrine" of the day. That is sad man.

seriously tconwell, i got so bored of reading ur long speeches, about quarter way through the thread i decided to skip them all,
(sorry to all with religions out there who like me)
RELIGION SUCKS BALLS!
im sorry but we were once part of the christian faith till i was five, do u no wat happened to my mom who was the strongest believer? SHE DIED IN A CAR CRASH WHEN I WAS THREE YEARS OLD[:(!] now i hear what ur saying about god being like the best and everything but ffs almost as soon as i realised i was in the religion and that god is supposed to be able to stop these things i stopped believing and now have realised that religion and worship cause way too many restrictions on your life like praying and going to church and stuff that doesn't even make your life any different, i mean if there is sum kind of almighty creator thers no real proof about if he is real or not, i mean if he wanted us to know he was real back then im sure he'd want us to know hes real now, so if there is sumthing that can prove he is real then please by all means show it to us cus i would love to know. im not saying that u sholdn't belive in sumthing, i mean there are a couple of things that sound like they work for instance i belive that if u do sumthing bad to sum1 it will happen 2 u, and that if kill sumthing just to kill it not to survive then sumthing bad will happen(i dnt no what) i also belive in karma.
all im saying is that religion is fussed about way too much over what it is, and sumtimes its not fussed enough, like JWs, they come to ur house and expect to be able to convert u on ur doorstep like they were tryin to sell u a leafblower for like a tenner. im jst sayin religion had no effect on my life at all, it may have even killed my mum on purpose i dnt no, but since the day i stopped beliving life has been no different to what it was then.

No one had any long speeches Adrenaguy (and your little tirade was anything but short ... but whatever). You still get to choose. I am very sorry about your mom, but to me it sounds like her choice was made before the terrible accident, thankfully ... hopefully you do the same before it is too late.

By the way kiddo, you are not the only one who has lost family tragically, and certainly not the only person (nor the first or last) to blame God, either. So, it still comes down to: Choose for yourself. That is all I have said for days now.

Aaaaanyway, I found a site in regards to the "not religion but relationship" idea: Not Religion -- Hope this helps for those interested in not flaming people. It takes a bit of sifting to get some info (especially if you do not know what to look for), but it is there.

Like Here

Adrenaguy, the 'Christian' answer would be that your mom deserved it, what a beautiful religion.

According to the Christian religion nothing happens without a reason so that would therefore mean that your mom was supposed to die.

What a loving thing this Christianity is, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Just like how I'm going to feel eternal pain just because I like boys, not girls.

So logical, amirite?

I really don't think that you're going to go to hell for being gay. TCon, correct me if mistaken, but is being gay really enough sin to get sent to hell?

My friend was talking to me about this at Valleyfair one day, and she is quite the Christian. She made it very clear that being gay is a sin, but nothing more severe than should someone look at another with lust or should someone lie.

It's a sin, but no so serious of one that it immediately puts you on the train to hell.

Originally posted by CalawayPark

Adrenaguy, the 'Christian' answer would be that your mom deserved it, what a beautiful religion.

According to the Christian religion nothing happens without a reason so that would therefore mean that your mom was supposed to die.

What a loving thing this Christianity is, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Just like how I'm going to feel eternal pain just because I like boys, not girls.

So logical, amirite?

Don't be stupid.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by Real

I still find it amusing - and disappointing - that the general public is still brainwashed into believing that Christianity supports denying the rights of gays...

I'm gonna play the asshole card right now and I apologize in advance.

Isn't denying gays the right to married "denying the rights of gays"? Like if Christianity doesn't consider marriage a "right" that's fine and all just tell me but like I'm kinda confused by your overall statement because of that.

I do understand like 99% of churches don't encourage followers to bomb abortion clinics and the like so I do see the general direction you're going in.

Now I'm going to play the asshole card and not apologize in advance for it at all.

Tiepilot and Calaway, shut the hell up. Honestly. This thread reminds of the evolution thread where you guys got your asses completely whooped BECAUSE you didn't provide anything factual. If you're going to debate the Bible, religion, Christianity, or whatever with a preacher you will lose simply because the preacher knows more Bible passages than you do simply because they've been more devoted to it and actually give a rats ass about it. Don't even try, you'll most likely be wrong.

FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN, Christianity as a whole is divided into many "sects" (I know it's the wrong word, sorry) that in general believe in the same wholesome message and all of that crap it's just the little side details, focusing too much on the side details, and inventing facts to supplement those side details makes a bad "sect". For example the Westboro Baptist Church would probably be a fairly normal GOOD church if they didn't do all of their homosexuality spiels and just pulled the idea that god kills the military instead of the people doing "bad" out of the southwestern region of their ass.

If ya'll want to have a problem with Christianity fine, have it. But try to find something the entire religion agrees upon is bad instead of focusing on some small minority of inbred dorks in South that have a retarded morph and have a problem with that. You'll find there aren't many of those to go around.

If ya'll did a little bit of goddamned research your lives would have so much less stress and things to worry about.

Actually Matt, it is not the Christians leading the charge in denying gay marriages, but the US Congress as well as State Senates who will not approve it. Take it up with them. Christian groups are merely expressing their view (much like you are here), and "they" really have no power in the US to make or pass law.

Calaway, your hatred is very telling ... at least Gerst is trying to be inquisitive (read:mature) and find out/verify information. Good luck with all that.

Gerst, you already have your answer from your friend, and I know it has been said on this site for years now. The actions associated with being gay is a sin (according to any version of the bible), but denying Christ as Savior is what gets you to hell. Jesus made it very clear to love the sinner, but oppose the sin(s). It is with hope and faith that through the example of Christ that all would come to repentence and turn away from sin .... but to answer your question, denying Christ as Savior is the "ticket to hell", period.

Edit: On a side and personal note, I wish I could be face to face with you guys ... it would be good to have a decent conversation where one could not hide behind a monitor and be as disrespectful as they can imagine. Face to face, since I am as old as most of your parents, I am sure that you would back off a tad and perhaps listen (or at least pretend to listen) to what others had to say without the kicked up level of immaturity because you can. I think I have said enough, let the flaming continue and someone else can take it up the charge ... I am simply tired of the disrespect.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by TConwell

Actually Matt, it is not the Christians leading the charge in denying gay marriages, but the US Congress as well as State Senates who will not approve it. Take it up with them. Christian groups are merely expressing their view (much like you are here), and "they" really have no power in the US to make or pass law.

Yes you're right, but can you consider that the decisions of the grumpy out of touch old men in there are influenced to a degree by it?

BTW I edited the shiz out of my earlier post. Does it make sense?