how to make this go good

i made a heartlineroll but not a straight one but it's going down.
but when i ride it it's going realy weird. not smooth at all.

how do i make it go good?

Well, is con. roll selected with the nodes, that needs to be on in a heartline roll.

And if you would look at it from left to right, you should better remove the 2nd and 4th node in de roll itself, maybe that will be smoother [:o)]

And you should heartline it

Paint it all black, make it both smooth and make sure the vertices are straight (the track is in a straight line) then run it through the AHG and it should be perfect.

[gouldy]

Not everyone wants to run their track through the AHG [:P]

Okay, here's what you really have to do. Give up on trying to make a heartline roll completely by hand. I tried it many many times, and even though I'm considered one of the best hand-builders on the site, I still can't do it. It's essentially impossible.

With that said, here is how you do it to generate a perfectly smooth roll, step by step.

1. Delete all the nodes that make up the interior of the heartline roll

2. Smooth the two end nodes out. You want a piece of track in the middle that is as close to straight as possible, and has smooth transitions into and out of it. Tip: The handles on both of the vertexes that define the segment should have handles that are approximately 1/3 the length of the straight segment.

3. Split the segment in half. Then split each half-segment in half again.

4. Make sure that each segment has Continuous Roll turned on.

5. If you're spinning clockwise, bank the first segment -90 degrees, the second one -180, and the third 90. If you're spinning counter-clockwise, use 90, 180, and -90.

6. Hit "select all", and delete every vertex except those used to define the roll and the segments directly before and behind the roll (makes reattaching easier).

7. Go to "coaster options" and change the main track color to pure black.

8. Save the element under a different file name.

9. Download the Automatic Heartline Generator, here: http://www.coastercrazy.com/users/wws/NL-AHG_v1_6.zip

10. Boot it up, and hit 'load track' while selecting the file name of the shortened track element.

11. Use the following settings:
Segments: 25 (you need a lot of vertexes to get the shaping just right, but not too many since you need some leeway to be able to reattach it)
Heartline: 1.3, since it looks like an X-Car coaster. If it isn't, check the list on the right for the right value.
V In: 5
V Out: 15 (doesn't really matter since the track is all black.)
Precision: 10
Filter: 200 (we're using a very high filter number, because it will really smooth the roll out, getting rid of those annoying little bumps.)

11. Hit the "Heartline it!" button, and save the result under a new track name. (ver important... this lets you go back and change something if the AHG screws something up.)

12. Load the newly heartlined piece of track in the editor, hit "select all", then save it as an element

13. Go back to the original track, delete the old element, insert the new one, and voila! A perfectly smooth downward roll.

>> and even though I'm considered one of the best hand-builders on the site, I still can't do it.

Obviously not the best then.

Lol, just giving myself some credibility. Notice how I said "one of", and not "the". But still, considering that it took me about 3 years to get to where I was, and I still couldn't make a bump-free heartline roll by hand, that's saying something. It ain't worth it.

lol i did the whole thing cjd. And at the end i had just a straight line . I've always had problems with using the Hearthlinegenerator . I don't know what it is or what i do wrong.

Originally posted by cjd


3. Split the segment in half. Then split each half-segment in half again.

Bad idea, in my opinion. I'd do that, but then add an extra straight on each end so you end up with 6 equal length straights. Most of the time if you only use four segments, the entrance and exit ends up banked, so if you have those extra lead ins and lead outs it gives the roll some extra room to start the roll smoothly and line up back to 0 banking at the exit.

Real made a heartline roll that was extremely well built in 03 I think. Bones I or something I think it was on, or was on a non-released track.

Originally posted by poephoofd

lol i did the whole thing cjd. And at the end i had just a straight line . I've always had problems with using the Hearthlinegenerator . I don't know what it is or what i do wrong.

Sounds like you didn't put the speed in right.

Also, you could just put new nodes in between your existing ones, then delete the old nodes. Then smooth it, then repeat. That usually works for me and gives a decent result.

OK, I don't feel so bad that I can't make tracks as smooth as some of the ones I see on this site.

It seems that even the builders that I've admired say "use AHG" when it comes to trouble track.


Well, until someone ports it to Mac, "use AHG" isn't an option for me. If it means installing Windows on my machine, then having smooth track isn't worth it.

[Kev]

oh lord... is this gonna be another one of those hand built vs tools vs windows vs mac threads? don't you guys ever get tired of debating this stuff?

Poe... doing this by hand is VERY difficult. It is possible though. I've never been able to do this so that it is completely smooth, but if you fiddle with it long enough, you can make it 'smooth enough'. Here's how I remember hand building a roll...

1 - make 4 track pieces of equal length.
2 - change the banking on each point by 90 degrees.
3 - using the keyboard shortcuts (not the mouse!), move the points at equal distances away from the center line (example - Point #2 - left and up, Point #3 - Up[double amount as you did with point #2], Point #4 - right and up[same amount as left]).
4 - carefully adjust point handles to that you have a smooth rolling motion.
5 - repeat step #4 until you get it how you want it. use the heartline path indicator as a guide.

Anyway, that's how I remember doing it. I'm sure others have their own methods that might be better. Gouldy was always really good with twisted types of track building, so maybe he will give you his advice on it.

GOOD LUCK!

hey! i've done a downward heartline before, jsut ahg it dude... much easier...

Originally posted by minicoopertx

OK, I don't feel so bad that I can't make tracks as smooth as some of the ones I see on this site.

It seems that even the builders that I've admired say "use AHG" when it comes to trouble track.


Well, until someone ports it to Mac, "use AHG" isn't an option for me. If it means installing Windows on my machine, then having smooth track isn't worth it.

The AHG doesn't smooth your track. Just makes the lats go down. That's why I use it only on steel coasters that have lots of twists.

If you want to do this by hand, you should make a support beam that runs straight down the path you want the heartline to take. Then zoom in and adjust the handles for each node until they closely line up with the beam in all views.

However, since you want this roll to be downhill, you might not want the heartline to go in a straight line. First, you should make a regular drop that stays close to 0-g all the way down. Then use free nodes to trace along the heartline of the drop. Split the drop into about 8 segments, and bank each vertex with rel-roll turned on. The change in banking between each node should be higher at the top of the drop and gradually decrease to give a nice, smooth exit to the roll. Adjust the vertices from every angle so that they stay very close to the original heartline path of the drop. Even though it may look smooth, press Ctrl+G after you have made the heartline as close as possible to the original. Make sure it still follows the heartline path closely after smoothing.

The result will not be as smooth as using the AHG, but you can end up with a really smooth hand-built element with enough tweaking.

Here's an example of a hand-built heartline drop split into just 5 segments.
http://www.NoLimitsDevCenter.net/p4400

Originally posted by nannerdw

If you want to do this by hand, you should make a support beam that runs straight down the path you want the heartline to take.

That's a great idea. I never thought of using a beam to line up the heartline more accurately. I guess from now on, I will have slightly less bumpy rolls! Thanks. [:)]

Originally posted by cjd

5. If you're spinning clockwise, bank the first segment -90 degrees, the second one -180, and the third 90. If you're spinning counter-clockwise, use 90, 180, and -90.

Depending on the banking of vertices before and after the roll, you might want to adjust the first/last segment and then the middle 2 accordingly to get a better flow through the roll.

Originally posted by minicoopertx

OK, I don't feel so bad that I can't make tracks as smooth as some of the ones I see on this site.

It seems that even the builders that I've admired say "use AHG" when it comes to trouble track.


Well, until someone ports it to Mac, "use AHG" isn't an option for me. If it means installing Windows on my machine, then having smooth track isn't worth it.

I won't say that making perfect 'trouble track' is impossible by hand, it just takes a LOT longer to do. Back in spring '05, right before I switched to AHG, I was getting damned close to the perfect roll. On my now-defunct 'Hyper X' project, I had a couple of handmade rolls that were almost perfect aside from a couple tiny residual vertex bumps. But I had to stop there, because no matter how long I played with it after that, I just couldn't get it perfect; and it had taken me about 2 hours of nonstop tinkering, splitting, moving, resizing, and messing with the vertexes to get it even that far, while running it through the AHG takes all of 10 minutes. So while it probably isn't completely impossible to do by hand, because I've seen a couple other attempts that came damned close as well, it is completely impractical and takes at least 10 times as long. If you're able, save your sanity and use the AHG.

minicooper, I'd recommend that in your track descriptions, you let everyone know that you have a Mac, and therefore can't use AHG. Raters will probably give you a lot more leeway in the heartline department if they know that you had to do it from scratch. Either that or stick to woodies... I actually prefer using hand-shaping on those because it makes the coaster feel shakier and more out-of-control rather than programmed.

For woodies it's not the program, it's the technique...I personally make my CCI style woodies 100% Elementary, and with AHG, and I'm very happy with the results. If you do it right, you'll get that wooden 'feel' much more than you will handbuilding for nearly all styles.

Also consider that CCI, GCI, and all these other companies don't shape anything by hand; it's all done with computers and shapes in many cases very similar to those you can make with Elementary. Again, just a case of being able to emulate this style correctly so your woodie doesn't turn into the programmed NL wooden coaster cjd was referring to, and we're all too familiar with.

Originally posted by dcs221


Also consider that CCI, GCI, and all these other companies don't shape anything by hand; it's all done with computers and shapes in many cases very similar to those you can make with Elementary.

True, but unlike steel coasters whose track is also bent and shaped by computer equipment, woodies are still built by hand. That bit of imprecision that happens when people get involved are why woodies still have little jerks, pumps, and shuffle.

Just ask the folks at Kemah!

Hey thanks for all the other answers and the idea of putting a support beam in the middle to hearthline is very good but i tried it again with AHG and i just did the same thing as before but this time it worked! i don't know why it didn't work the first time , maybe i typed something wrong or something. well anyway thanks! i'm going to work further on my track and hopefully i can make a good one and upload it