2008 Presidential Democratic Elections

[jayman]

K.I.S.S.[:D]

[Oscar]

Well, if we can get immigration reform and start coillecting back taxes from them and have them pay taxes on their income and what not, then you can keep your social security retirment benefits if that's what worries you since more income money will be coming back into the government from the newly legalized immigrants. The real problem is that you and I are working to pay for the social security benefits of the baby boomers. If we can't have a larger workforce that contributes to social security, then you can really kiss your retirement benefits await. That's a fact. I learned that in my economics class [approve] What needs to be done is to legalize and train them to have skill jobs where they can get paid more and thus contribute more to the economy.

[coolbeans326]

Originally posted by WeeWeeSlap

screw you and your video games beans. Time for you to grow up a bit don't you think? [;)]

Well I don't know what growing up has to do with the way I spend my spare time, so your demand is completely unreasonable as such I shall ignore it.

Really, though, it's not just video games. It's movies, tv, music, maybe even books too(probably comic books, I can't see a 400 page piece of literature really being affected as much). But I believe that anything she deems "innappropriate" for children will be attacked. She's not a supporter of free speech or expression, and if that's the case she shouldn't be given that power to control such things.

But maybe it's just me. Maybe I just enjoy a good story more then most people and I can appreciate a game for being more then just running and gunning (as most games have proven to have much deeper plots and stories in recent years) and I don't think it's fair for some one Hilary to try and censor and make the story teller pay extra just because she doesn't want kids to be tramatized, or w/e. And maybe I can just appreciate Tupac's music because it tells a story about lifestyles, and fears, and other things that many people who grow up in poor communities deal with. Besides, its shouldn't even be her concern. It's parents concerns on how to raise their kids or how they're not going to raise them.. just because I was raised just fine and the Spears family is ****ed up doesn't mean that I have to suffer. You're always going to have **** ups in life, but that is just something we're going to have to deal with it.

If you look on her page one of the ideas or agenda's she wants to push for is protecting children from violence in the media.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/family/

As already stated, it is my firm belief that it is none of her business trying to help raise people's kids and in return putting restrictions on everyone else, despite thier age. A rumor I've seen on several sites like this one
and this one is that Hilary is planning on putting a tax on video games deemed "violent." And while there is support from both sides as noted onthis site, she is the only Presidential candidate at the moment who has made it clear about thier stance on violence as well as sex in video games, and various other media sources. And there is no doubt in my mind that if she has her way with video games, music and movies will be the next issue she will address, and possibly followed by liturature, maybe not all as I noted, but some of the forms literature comes in. And lets face it, the media is a very big part of everyone's life. You participate in some sort of media type on a regular basis. But are you willing to let some one tamper with it?

Maybe it's just because that is an aspect of life that directly affects me, and maybe that's why I have strong opinions of it, but I'm not willing to let some one else's opinions ruin my lifestyle or my spare time hobbies. Next thing you know, she's going to start taxing sports like paintball or just simple archery just because it teaches kids to shoot things.

Really when it comes down to it, she doesn't even seem like a good leader, on the contrary Oboma seems like a very intelligent man, very outspoken and thus far he has displayed, to me at least, characteristics that would make a good leader. If any democrat runs the white house for the next 4 - 8 years, I hope its him. He seems the most capable out of every one.

Also, if you vote for Clinton just because you liked the previous Clinton, you're a fool. Just because they are joined by marriage does not mean their personality or politics are the same. They're completely different people and as such they should be treated as completely different people.

[Oscar]

well, if you're basing yourn decision on the "rumor" links, you might as well join tconwell and have the wife of Brett Favre run for supreme ruler of the world.

Video games are the least of this country's problems! Hillary Clintons said she wants to bring back the middle class,witch is our economy.Because the poor people dont spend money.I will agree with Weeweeslap about the immigration reform and start collecting back taxes and legalizing immigration.It have to pay taxes thay need to also.We also need better tax breaks for insurance.
FYI I dont remember any other presidents dancing with the enemy to get them to produce more oil.Bush is so stupid!

[coolbeans326]

^ the idea is not video games. My problem is cencership.. of which video games would be the first of. Followed by the rest of media.

Also if you think is President is going to be able to reform immigration I'm going to ask you to take your head out of your ass and wake up. For the record there are 3 branches of government. Judical, Executive, and Legislative. The executive branch and legislative branch work closely together, but it's the Legislative branch that either screws everything (whether it was the for the best or not) But basically everybody has such varying issues on how to fix the problem of immigration that nothing can be done because whatever Hillary tries to do, congress or house of reps will more then likely veto any bill brought to them. It's just not going to work out any time in the near future. So my point is why focus on such an issue when nothing will come of it?

Here's an issue to work on. Help our legislative branch get thier **** together so we actually can reform. I want to hear some one talk about that. I want to hear some one admit that they can not fix all of our problems unless everyone who plays a part in our political system works together.

So as such, imo, immigration is a useless topic, or at least at this point, so there for it doesn't effect me.
And like wise, bring back the "middle class" is also going to take a lot of work, but the way it sounds to me is that it might just be that good jobs are just paying a lot better then what they used too, and if you don't end up with a carreer then you're just left behind. Really it comes down to a person's own choices on how they end up economically. It's not something anyone can do for them, it's something they have to do for themselves. But hey this is just the libertarian in me speaking.

I tend to rely on myself, and I don't expect others to help me out. I like to find and make my own happiness. And if people start messing with those things, I tend to get upset. It's like when I you were a kinder gardner and the 6th grades came and stole you're ball, and they hold it high above your head to where you can't reach it.. That's what I feel like when people mess with the things that I work hard for.. in this case we're talking about my entertainment since at this moment in time that is what directly affects me.


-edit- and really when you think about it... what EVERY SINGLE ISSUE comes down to is the ability for people to enjoy themselves best. They want to end the genocide in Darfur,(both Hillary and Obama have the issue on thier agendas) which I fully support and embrace (and despite my generally libertarian stance, I feel that we should help them simply because they do not have the ability to help themselves) but the point is if we help them out of their issues, they will be a lot better off and they'll be able to enjoy themselves, and they'll be able to concentrate on building a better economy, and overall enjoy a better living conditions.

Then you've got immigration. I think some of the issue does have a little bit to do with racism, and other's are upset because people just cross over illegally, and they just don't want them to be rewarded with citizenship instead of punishment. But I think the main idea is to have something that in the end result benefits our economy, and the illegal immigration population is big enough to support the baby boomer population that is begginning to retire, so our "problem" may be what saves us. So the retiring people can now enjoy an easy comfortable retirement. And then if you bring up the middle class, then you have more people who have more money to spend on things keep us happy.

Aww.. but what is a major source of our recreation? Movies, music, video games, tv. The elderly aren't going to be playing sports, nor will they be playing video games most likely. But they will be watching movies. Is it fair that they have to pay more to enjoy American Gangster then it is to enjoy Snoopy? Not really, imo.

Then you have the middle class. I would say a large population would be in thier late 20's-30's. I think there is a large market of people who enjoy music, movies, tv, and video games that could be affected by censorship and the possibility of taxes. The end result is watered down stories people just can't get into, and as a result sales of such thing goes down.. and the industry tanks. Oh but wait.. Movies, music, and video games are very large industries that support many middle class jobs. So what did you do? By censoring things to protect "children" instead of letting parents decide on their own how to raise their kids, you just destroyed some very large markets. So that guy who fills in for the recording of Marylin Manson cd's no long has a job (along with the band itself) because it costs to much to listen Marylin Manson, and no one wants to pay that much for him, so the labels no longer want him on their contract, and all of the producers, and everyone else who was making money off of his music now have to suffer. ANd all of those developers who were working on the next halo game are layed off because the tax made people not want to purchase as many video games, and as a result, the ammount of products released each year are cut down, and with it, the work force. The same idea with movies. People aren't spending as much on movies any more because along with the inflating costs of the movies themselves, there's a tax tacked onto it. Less moies are made as a result... hundreds of middle class jobs lost.

So once again let me state that my problem is not cencorship of video games, but media as a whole. Because it really does affect a lot of people in a lot of ways, and maybe I only care because it's an area I'd like start a carrer in, but still I think my point is valid, and it's a big enough reason to not vote for something just because doing such would affect far to many people negatively, and it takes away people's freedom of choice.

Now excuse me, I no longer have time to kill and I've got things to do now.[8D]

coolbeans326 You need to pull your head out of your young punk ass,and smell the roses.You will find out in life that the decisions we make now will effect you later,like not having a job no health insurance,no home or a job that pays 7.00 hr.Thus for there is no middle class.I never said that things could become perfect.As far as immigration effecting you unless you are very well of,it will effect your life.As far as legislative reform,I will agree with you.But we have to put a president in office that the legislative will respond to.

[Oscar]

Beans, you still center decision on entertaining yourself. I think entertainment will be one of your least worries when other things go wrong. Also, how do you explain movie tickets literally doubling in price in the Bush pesidency, blame Hilary? Maybe you should explore the other problems on the table that will affect your entertainment then merely based your decision on censorship of games. Either way, just because she gets elected doesn't mean she has the sole power to censor violence. It's a diect violation of the US constitution and the government will be sued leftand right and have shut freedom of expression blocks revoked and you can go back and play violent games and watch violent movies and continue watching pornos and listen to **** **** ***** cunt etc on the music you like. and wtf about darfur? You want to help them? well, feel free to travel and help them. I say we help ourselves first before helping others. We should help the homeless, invest in proper drug treatment centers to help people relieve themselves of their drug addictions. Get people off the street. Improve our education. Work and improve our economy. Why go in more debt with a country which we will not benefit from? We need to stop being a ***** country and start maning up and start caring for one self and improve one self before we can go and say awww you're hurt and can't help yourselfm here let me help you. WAKE UP PEOPLE. Help yourself and help your fellow countrymen before you go and help some stranger. And if you think I am contradicting my previous immigration statement with the statement I just posted, I am not. As you can see legalizing not giving them citizenship, will help the current medicare problems and help improve the economy with money money incoming to the government from taxes of these newly legalized immigrants.

[jayman]

i am an american.. i live in a country where we oughta be honoring those who acheive, not one that gives handouts to people who represent the lowest common denominator.. **** em.. if you can't get it together tough ****..those of us who can shouldn't have to carry those who refuse to..

Live action replay:

Hmmmm ... sounds to me like Beans has done his research on the several issues - at least enough to prove his point without spewing out random insults; and his thanks for doing such is being told to pull his head out, twice. Wow, good one.

You are not alone Beans, I am just not bothering to bother anymore -- and yet I agree with Jay ... I am an American. The rest of the world including the stupid election system can lick my left big toe. I don't care anymore. No one here is going to make a damn bit of difference in January with only 3 primaries down, and if you are determined to make a difference, then put your money where your mouth is. Let's see your name on a ballot.

I'm so glad I decided not to follow this. I don't understand ANYTHING that is being said...

But Barack all the way! Weeoo!

RNC Chairman Statement on Nevada Democrat Caucus Results

Just adding to the info out there. [approve]