Modern No Limits 101

Hey guys. Some of you may remember me, some not. I've been gone for a while and I finally decided to return to the domain of roller coasters. Ok blah blah enough of that.

When I left most people were still hand smoothing node by node building their coasters, but now it seems that people are switching over to the mathematical approach. Well I'm quite unfamiliar with this method, and even after reading tutorials and such, I'm still kinda at a dead end. So my question is basically, what do I need to get started building with this method? What are some common techniques, good or bad? Any constructive help is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

Have you looked at Newton yet?

'Fraid I don't even know what that is?

Do you know what FVD's are? Its a mathematical formula where you input a variable and a time zone and it outputs a track piece with the given variables. Newton is sort of the same thing, but you cannot specify the different time zones. I'm an FVDer and i've tried newton before. Its nice, but it just doesnt do all of what FVD's can, and besides, FVD's give you glass smooth coasters, with only a little more work than newton.

I tried HSAK and some of Red's other formulas, didn't like the results.
I tried FVD's, could not for the life of me figure out the concept.

So there are still hand builders out there. We're a rare breed, but we do exist. lol

^Lol well I definitely remember when people started switching to HSAK, so I tried it myself, but I could not figure it out at all. I figured since I have a better understanding of mathematics now that I would give it a try, because I can't make smooth stuff by hand for the life of me.

But now I still don't understand HSAK. And I don't even know what FVD's is. Could someone enlighten?

While I don't have the time right now to explain what and how to use the FVD formulas, from my experience the FVD formulas should be a lot easier to use than HSAK and some of those other elements.

With FVD you create an element in elementary already completed with banking etc etc. All you have to do it AHG it and then it is all set. There is no more element rotating and guessing and whatnot with HSAK and others.

Uhhh. Ok that was a little confusing. What does FVD stand for?

Force Vector Designs

i get a headache of AHG, FDV, newton etc.

i'm a handbuilder(but for some elements i use elementary)
you remember handbuilding guys? moving nodes, ctrl+g, add node, moving it, ctrl+g, etc.

Well, for someone just jumping into tooling, I would suggest Newton. It doesn't require much math at all(just simple math to add up banking and forces) and it produces pretty smooth tracks. Granted, FVD's are better, but Newton is a lot easier to get a grasp on. Newton can be found over at Coaster-Sims.

My coaster are easy to make because I can make a jet coaster ramp hill, lift, gentle ramp and save them as a element. My coasters have a lot of straight ramp like hills and insanely slow 2 to3 MPH lifts.

Yeah, I don't really like Newton...it really restricts a lot of what you can do with shaping because you can't have separate time and banking zones. However, that may change in the future with a new version.

Also, all of the Newton tracks I have downloaded have felt quite jerky...don't know why that is.

http://coastercrazy.com/forum/topic.asp ... hichpage=1

Check out this topic for all of Newton.

Originally posted by raptorTC

Well, for someone just jumping into tooling, I would suggest Newton. It doesn't require much math at all(just simple math to add up banking and forces) and it produces pretty smooth tracks.

FVDs require the same amount of math and produce a better quality track killas...

FVD also bring about headaches from figuring out what does what and what goes where. Newton is probably the best way to introduce someone to building with tools.

Well i started AHG a little bit ago and i would recomend it if you dont have it... It shouldn't take more than five to ten minutes to learn... I am still trying to perfect it though... I need to figure out the best methods to AHG a track[:D]

Newton is a life-saver when you have the patience to use it. All you really have to do is mess with the sliders until you get a look that you like, save the element with the amount of smoothing applied, and viola. A new coaster.

Since nobody has actually described what FVD or Newton are yet, here is the explanation:

Basically, both of these programs design tracks by inputing banking, a g-force value, and a time. After inputting starting values for speed and position, you tell the program what g-force and banking you want the next piece of track to have, and for how long to hold it, and it automatically generates a track which has those g-forces. Full coasters are generated by linking multiple g-force time zones together. That is the basic principle behind FVD and Newton.

Beyond that, there are finite program-specific differences.

FVD:
-Runs as an add-on formula to Elementary, and is basically a solid block of programming code with various input points.
-The banking and g-force time zones are separate, which lets you change the two values independent of each-other, giving greater control.
-You can not alter lateral g forces. Lateral g's are set to 0 automatically.
-The formulas are editable, which means that you can customize the program to use different force vectors for shaping, and can change it to adjust variables such as height rather than just g-force and banking.
-The track must be run through AHG before shaping is right.

Newton:
-Is a separate program
-Has a user-friendly graphical interface
-Can adjust both lateral and vertical g's
-Banking and g-force time zones cannot be adjusted independently. They must match up.
-Built-in AHG
-Program is un-editable. Cannot use formulas other than the built-in force/banking one.

i say go with FVD's.
they may seem a bit hard to start out with, but you catch onto the pretty quick and you can get some sweet stuff out of it.
i just learned myself, so i wouldnt be the best to explain, but i really like how it works.
i would look into FVD's over newton.
FVD's seem to produce better/smoother tracks.
but really its whatever you would like using more, you may like newton or FVD's.
just look into both, get some info and maybe a bit a practice on both and see what you like better i guess, haha.

to me this all sounds so confuzzling, i handbuild right now with most elements built my self, unless it's a loop, shaping a loop is something i can't quite do right now, i'll get the hang of of it eventually. right now i use AHG and it serves me well when i do it right. some noob mistakes might be not noticing negative G-forces and cause the AHG to spin the track right round to try to compensate and make all forces positive (it's how it's designed, to make all vertical forces positive) to counteract that you just colour that bit black to keep it the same banking as you put it in. Also incorrect speed settings, I had real trouble before i realised that speed and length MUST be in kph and metres. And welcome back! you probably don't know me, I'm adrenaguy, nice to meet ya!