Another religious discussion (Tconwell)

Acknowledging that reality is in conflict with your beliefs, and then dodging the obvious implications of that by thinking that your all knowing imaginary friend is going to explain it is intellectually dishonest.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by Mai of the Fire

I'm on the same wavelength as TConwell on this one... As long as I believe that it did happen, I'm not worried about the how. I'll ask Him one day, and get back to you.

Hi. That's like believing in the tooth fairy because a book says so. If you believe the tooth fairy is real when you're 5 then it has to be real because it's in a book you read correct?

Buh bye!

OK. Bye. [hello] lol, jk.

I'd probably just look dumb trying to argue, so I'll keep out of this one. I know why I believe, but I can't properly express it in words. I suck at debating. [:p] Lol, sorry, TConwell, I'm probably hurting the cause here.

[hyyyper]

Not to continue the debate or something. But I'm really curious how people just believe something that was ridden 1500+ years ago, while that book is in a hunderd ways open to interpretation. And with that also denying the tons of evidence that really show how the earth and life was slowly formed.

I'm not trying to bring you down, I'm just really curious what goes into your minds, because I just can't image it.

God used Photoshop, I can tell by the pixels.

[gouldy]

This kind of debate makes me happy [:)]

It makes me realise just how sane I actually am in comparison to some.
Sure I might have bad OCD and have some terrible personality complexes that almost cripple me getting through some fairly normal everyday things like simply phoning someone... but at least I don't believe in God or anything of the sort.

Mai: You were doing just fine.

Originally posted by hyyyper

...something that was ridden 1500+ years ago ...

Ridden? You mean written, right? [;)]

Originally posted by coasterkidmwm

Hi. That's like believing in the tooth fairy because a book says so. If you believe the tooth fairy is real when you're 5 then it has to be real because it's in a book you read correct?

What has the tooth fairy ever done to insult you that he/she has to be brought into your dilemma? Ya ever think maybe everyone else is not the one with the problem?

Originally posted by cjd

TCon, why do you even bother? You and I both know that he's not listening, and he's just trying to make you look like an idiot.

As Jayman so perfectly stated, I simply answered HIS question with MY answer since he tried so ineffectively to make it about me -- and so, there it is.

Interesting tidbit time:

Did you know, for example, that the Bible says we are fools if we:

* spread slander (Proverbs 10:18);
* think we?????????re right in our own eyes rather than listening to wise counsel (Proverbs 12:15);
* reject our father?????????s discipline (Proverbs 15:5);
* delight only in revealing our own mind rather than in understanding (Proverbs 18:2);
* are perverse in speech instead of walking in integrity (Proverbs 19:1);
* quarrel instead of keeping away from strife (Proverbs 20:3);
* always lose our temper (Proverbs 29:11)?

And the best verse of all:

?????????The fool says in his heart, ?????????There is no God????????? ????????? (Psalm 14:1)

Conclusion? I am not 100% sure the idiot is, but I only stated what I believed. The rest is up to the listener.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by TConwell

Originally posted by hyyyper

...something that was ridden 1500+ years ago ...

Ridden? You mean written, right? [;)]

Yes, but that doesn't answer my question.

Matt, have you watched Religulous yet?

[Coasterkidmwm]

Hey tcon, it also says that if you eat anything aquatic that doesn't have scales (shrimp and lobster) you burn in hell. Don't you love picking and choosing things as you see fit?

a shem is an airborne vehicle not a name. So if the Lord cam down on a shem what does that suggest? Read the 12th planet by Zacharia Sitchin

Originally posted by TConwell
And the best verse of all:

?????????The fool says in his heart, ?????????There is no God????????? ????????? (Psalm 14:1)

Yeah, like Isaac Asimov, Noam Chomsky, Francis Crick, Marie Curie, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Thomas Edison, Stephen Gould, Massimo Pigliucci, Steven Pinker, Karl Popper, Carl Sagan, Michael Shermer, James Watson, etc.

Funny how your so-called fools happen to be the most intelligent peope on earth. However, "a person who lacks judgment or sense" is only a human definition. I think the biblical definition of 'fool' is something like "An intelligent person who uses repeatedly proven facts to gain important knowledge and eventually improve this earth".

Oh no wait, offcourse not, then that would be the first thing to actually make sense in that dusty old book.

I've always liked Dawkins' example (even though he can be a little extreme at times) of a teacup orbiting the sun. If someone told you today that there was a teacup orbiting the sun somewhere between Earth and Venus, you'd think they were crazy unless they could actually show you proof of its existence or if you could see if for yourself. BUT, if people had been telling the story of the teacup generation after generation for the last 6000 years, and everyone you knew had been talking about the teacup since you were born, then it would become much easier to just accept that it's there and have that become a normal part of the way you think about the world and the solar system.
That's paraphrased but you get the idea...

That was Bertrand Russel's Teacup, Dawkins' just borrowed it.

Interesting tidbit time:

*Cosmic microwave background radiation, Hydrogen/Helium ratios, Hubble's Law and the expansion of space, detailed observations of the morphology and distribution of galaxies and quasars provide strong evidence that the Universe is over 13 billion years old.
*Following the scientific revolution and the development of radiometric age dating, measurements of lead in uranium-rich minerals showed that some were in excess of a billion years old.
*The oldest such minerals analysed to date ????????? small crystals of zircon from the Jack Hills of Western Australia ????????? are at least 4.404 billion years old.
*Ancient Archaean lead ores of galena have been used to date the formation of Earth as these represent the earliest formed lead-only minerals on the planet and record the earliest homogeneous lead-lead isotope systems on the planet. These have returned age dates of 4.54 billion years with a precision of as little as 1% margin for error.
*Evolution is the foundational principal of modern Biology.
*Using endogenous retroviral deoxyribonucleic acid, you can make a phylogenetic tree of life, which just happens to perfectly match the morphological tree of life and the microbiological tree of life.
*Some people in our modern society justify their arbitrary beliefs by citing an ancient text and claiming it is divine.

Ok my bad, I'd only heard it from Dawkins. Still the same point though.

See, this is so odd. I though Matt asked me a question and I answered it as I understood it. Had no idea anything else was up for debate ...

So, why continue trying to ridicule, folks? Matt asked me a question and I answered it as my understanding allowed. The rest is equal to what my response is ... YOUR opinion. When will you get it?

The point of my post was not to ridicule, but to portray how science uses objectively verifiable evidence to reach conclusions and explain the natural world, and how you do not. Your response is indeed an opinion, but science is not. I am not trying to say you are not entitled to your opinion, just that your opinion is in no way supported by objectively verifiable evidence.

just like me saying Obama could be the Antichrist

Hahahaha. I'm so happy! All the people I dislike most on this site are going to hell [:X]

This thread truly represents and reveals those who have the heart AND capability of having faith in things regardless of proof, and those who resolve only to logic, who only believe things that have solid evidence of being real; a.k.a. those who have limits, are restricted, and refuse to step out of the box.

I'm glad I'm not one of them, nor will I ever be [:)]

[Oscar]

You're going to hell gerstlcrazy so don't get too happy.

Ha, don't worry, no I'm not [:)]

Gerst, your first sentence is the exact reason that debates like this happen. Its the inability of people of certain faith to understand other beliefs. Saying someone is going to hell because they are interested in looking into other options other than the default "christian american" lifestyle. If you don't understand other beliefs, you don't understand your own. I'm not defending atheist either, im just annoyed by those who actually become offended and aim to hurt others by stuff that is only personal opinion.
If you never question anything, you wont learn anything.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by TConwell

See, this is so odd. I though Matt asked me a question and I answered it as I understood it. Had no idea anything else was up for debate ...

We're trying to understand the logic behind said opinion and since we don't understand it at all that means something is a bit screwy...

Originally posted by TConwell
When will you get it?

When will YOU get it?

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy


This thread truly represents and reveals those who have the heart AND capability of having faith in things regardless of proof

What makes faith so special? If I have faith that muttering certain Latin words will heal my child's illness better than modern medicine, does that mean I have the heart and capability you are talking about? If I have faith that the Quran was dictated by a god, does that make it true? If I have faith that outside of the observed Universe is a giant intergalactic space duck, does that make it true? Faith is a vice, not a virtue.

Making arbitrary claims, which have absolutely no reason or objectively verifiable evidence behind them, and using these claims to make conclusions and explain reality is insane. Observe then conclude. One arbitrary and baseless claim is no better than any other arbitrary and baseless claim. Instead of making these faith-based claims about the Universe and the unknowable, think.

Originally posted by Symbiotic

Gerst, your first sentence is the exact reason that debates like this happen. Its the inability of people of certain faith to understand other beliefs. Saying someone is going to hell because they are interested in looking into other options other than the default "christian american" lifestyle. If you don't understand other beliefs, you don't understand your own. I'm not defending atheist either, im just annoyed by those who actually become offended and aim to hurt others by stuff that is only personal opinion.
If you never question anything, you wont learn anything.

'Twas a satirical post, I understand those points completely.

Lol Dragon Fly, settle down. Religion is all belief and opinions =P