Another religious discussion (Tconwell)

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by TConwell
WOW!! I never knew I had the power to restrict someone else's freedom based on my personal religion! Hu-raah! What shall I do first?

Refuse to marry two fat women.

Ta-daaahhhh!

That page also says that near 6.5 billion copies of Quotations from Chairman Mao were sold. Does that mean communism is the ultimate and divine trurth? That book did in less than one century what took two millenniums and a book in each hotel room for the bible. What the majority thinks is completely irrelevant to what is demonstratably true. Centuries ago, a majority of people thought the world was flat, does that mean it is? Of course not. Similarly, it does not matter how many people think the world is 6000 years old, because objectively verifiable evidence is able to get consistent and accurate results as to what the age of the Earth really is. It is quite apparent with your posts and how you say "people love science and real numbers and stuff" that objectively verifiable evidence is meaningless to you. Because you are incapable of seeing reason, and you lack a shred of skepticism, there is nothing that can be done to rid you of your delusions.

Originally posted by DragonFly

Because you are incapable of seeing reason, and you lack a shred of skepticism, there is nothing that can be done to rid you of your delusions.

Ah, and here come the insults. Brilliant. This really makes you credible now, eh?

Originally posted by coasterkidmwm

Refuse to marry two fat women.

Ta-daaahhhh!

There is no doctrine, law, right, ritual, must-do, or anything else provided anywhere that says I have to marry anyone -- and uh ... since you have so eloquently used in the past (fail): "Marriage" is a state action and has nothing to do with "religion". So, for you to suggest I do the above is actually contradictory to your own argument, since marriage and religion have nothing to do with one another.

Besides, why would I marry two fat women??? I am already married.

Ta-daaaaaaaaaah!

What are you willing to risk to see if I am right about God, Matt?

Did you even read my post on Pascal's Wager? I am sure you have heard my response before, so why are you asking that meaningless question to Matt?

Are you willing to risk to see if I am right about Qwerty?
Are you willing to risk making another post when the number count may damn you to hell?

He is at no more risk than you are, because the existence of Qwerty is just as likely as the existence of your god.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by TConwell
There is no doctrine, law, right, ritual, must-do, or anything else provided anywhere that says I have to marry anyone -- and uh ... since you have so eloquently used in the past (fail): "Marriage" is a state action and has nothing to do with "religion". So, for you to suggest I do the above is actually contradictory to your own argument, since marriage and religion have nothing to do with one another.

Then why is it trumpeted as a religious issue?

Originally posted by TConwell
Besides, why would I marry two fat women??? I am already married.

Yeah one is enough I guess. (I'm sorry but you totally set yourself up for that one)

Originally posted by TConwell
What are you willing to risk to see if I am right about God, Matt?

'Bout $3.50

TJ, I don't see how Matt (or me or anyone else) is risking any more than you are to find out if your belief in god is correct or not. Like hyyyper said, if you've been right all along, then when you die you'll get your eternity in heaven and whatever else is waiting for you up there. If any of the other thousands of religions thought up since the dawn of man turns out to be right, than you'll be no better off than the rest of us (what if you get to the river styx but your family didn't leave you with the payment to get across?). In that respect, I don't see how choosing to believe in a god is any safer of a bet than not worrying about the possibility of an afterlife at all.

Obviously you have a million other reasons to believe what you do, I just hope the fact that it's a "safe" choice isn't near the top of the list.

Dragon Fly, your follow-up post on Pascal gave you the ability to arbitrarily create something out of the air that made you feel good to prove your point, in which you do not have the power to do nor any historical backing (my God has 6000+ years of written history).

However, it became irrelevant once you started insulting me and showed your true self. I have already re-re-re-re-stated my position. There is no risk of anything on my part, by faith I believe ... regardless of your personal attacks.

1 Corinthians 2:2:, "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified."

Oringally posted by Coasterkidmwm

'Bout $3.50

You only feel that you are worth $3.50? That's a shame Matt. God thinks you are worth more, so much so that He willingly gave His Son to die for you.

OK, well, I have said enough. Feel free to continue on -- my point is clear and unwavered. Time to go spend time with my wife and kids. Bye.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

He is at no more risk than you are, because the existence of Qwerty is just as likely as the existence of your god.

My God has sent someone to Earth who did inexplicable miracles in His name, and had disciples who were willing to die to defend his name. My God has kept the tribe of Israel alive and in the land of Canaan for 3000 years even though the whole world hates them. My God predicted the rise and fall of every major world empire to control Jerusalem (see book of Daniel). My God said that He would send a Holy Spirit as a comforter, and now millions of people can report being given discernment by that spirit. My God explained exactly what He was doing, and how He was going to bring the whole world back to himself, from the very beginning of civilization.

Now, in light of that, what has Qwerty done? And if he does exist, why has he waited thousands of years to make himself known?

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by cjd

and now millions of people can report being given discernment by that spirit.

That spirit is unusually selective don't you think?


PS You seem to think you're Jewish or something.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm


That spirit is unusually selective don't you think?

PS You seem to think you're Jewish or something.

If you do not even believe in the notion of good and evil, then of what use is the Spirit, who is a guide, to you? It's those good old passages at work... "SEEK, and you will find." "DRAW near to God, and He will draw near to you."

P.S. No, but that is the foundation of all Abrahamic religions, including both Christianity and Judaism. We believe that God promised Abraham, descendants, blessing, and that all the nations of the world would be blessed through him. Even Islam holds to this Abrahamic belief, although they believe that Ishmael, not Iassac, was the son who inherited this promise from his father.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by cjd
If you do not even believe in the notion of good and evil, then of what use is the Spirit who is a guide, to you?

Is that a passage or something you pulled out of your ass? If you pulled it out of your ass, then I'm glad you thin everyone who doesn't believe in your religion has a warped sense of morality.

Originally posted by cjd
P.S. No, but that is the foundation of all Abrahamic religions

Sorry I thought it was war and killing non-believers. My bad. I got the wrong impression from glancing at history books.

You seem to completely disregard the Vedas, Quran, Vachanas, Ginza Rba, Dianetics, the ENTIRE Avesta collection, and all the other religious books and the hundreds of prophecies in each of them. What makes the bible special when it offers no more than the other religious texts, and is historically supported by no more than the other religious texts? At least there is enough historical evidence to support the existence of Muhammad and Buddah. The most Jesus has going for him in terms of historical evidence is the Josephus forgery. It's not that surprising either, if you make a conclusion and go out to find evidence for it, it will probably take a while for you to find something that can be used to support it. It makes it a lot easier if you make conclusions after making observations, why do you think Science is developing so rapidly? Qwerty is just as likely of existing as Yahweh. Qwerty is also much nicer than him.

I am the prophet of Qwerty, to me, he foretold the terrorist attacks on 11 September 2001, the outcome of the 2008 presidential election, that OJ did it, that the calorie content of a 355 mL can of Pepsi is 150, and a number of other things. It just so happens to be that Qwerty is not entirely-all knowing, and is also illiterate, which explains the lack of religious texts. But the prophecies I described should prove to you that he is real! I have faith that it is! Are you willing to risk being wrong about Qwerty? Even though you are now aware of the numerous prophecies which came true?

And Tcon, I did not insult you, I merely stated that you were immune to reason. Even though you completely avoided my argument on how the wager is invalid because it assumes a god, and that the god rewards belief, I would be willing to take back that assertion if you convert now to Qwertyism! Long live the warriors of Qwerty! We will implement Shariaq Law!

It is written:

circa 700 B.C. - "By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." (Isaiah 45:23)

circa 61 A.D. - "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Phillipians 2:9-11)

Two different authors, but confessing that there is only one God. Interesting.

[jayman]

Originally posted by TConwell

It is written:

circa 700 B.C. - "By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." (Isaiah 45:23)

circa 61 A.D. - "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Phillipians 2:9-11)

Two different authors, but confessing that there is only one God. Interesting.

welll. not really. thats like saying "the bible is true because the bible says so" it's just like the psalms 22 thing.. it doesnt really "prove" anything to people who are convinced otherwise, it simply reassures those who'd believe it anyhow.. paul was certainly familiar with the writings of isaiah, so it really isnt too amazing that he'd make that connection ..

Ahhh, I was waiting for someone to post that Jay, just did not think it would be you. Yet, there is another angle at work.

When Paul wrote Philippians he was sitting in jail, for preaching the Word, most likely assuming he would never get out. Yet, his faith never wavered. I find it interesting that someone who was so bent on killing Christians could have an amazing experience with the true and risen Savior, read the Word of the Lord, and be totally transformed .... by faith alone. When we talk about miraculous life changes; certainly there is none greater in recorded history. And oh yes, not just religious history ... for Paul's life is well documented.

Just one life, just one change, because of Christ.

For it is written, "Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." (Hebrews 9:28)

[jayman]

well. whether or not paul's going blind and halucinating was just that or indeed a message from god he attributed it to his being so hell bent on ending the early church,maybe he spent the rest of his life trying to make up for it .. he was the first "apologist" there have been others.. cs lewis is the only name that comes to my mind.. my point the whole time here has been that nothing can change your mind, and its a pretty worthless endeavor for others to try to do so, espescially when they cannot "prove' that you are wrong ..

I don't think that link about Paul is the one you intended to give. That cites its resources as the KJV and RSV.

No, I posted and said what I intended too. But, if you need to find something else to pick at, try this one.

"And oh yes, not just religious history ... for Paul's life is well documented."

The first link you gave right after saying that cites it's only sources as the KJV and the RJV.

The wikipedia article you gave me cites bible verses, websites explaining bible verses, and books explaining the bible.

Both of these have a complete lack of historical evidence. Using the same reasoning I could say Harry Potter is well documented and point to the seven book series about him, and the hundreds of fan sites.

This is why you keep people busy. once you stop moving around you start to question your existence

Originally posted by TConwell

Dragon Fly, your follow-up post on Pascal gave you the ability to arbitrarily create something out of the air that made you feel good to prove your point, in which you do not have the power to do nor any historical backing (my God has 6000+ years of written history).

However, it became irrelevant once you started insulting me and showed your true self. I have already re-re-re-re-stated my position. There is no risk of anything on my part, by faith I believe ... regardless of your personal attacks.

1 Corinthians 2:2:, "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified."

Oringally posted by Coasterkidmwm

'Bout $3.50

You only feel that you are worth $3.50? That's a shame Matt. God thinks you are worth more, so much so that He willingly gave His Son to die for you.

OK, well, I have said enough. Feel free to continue on -- my point is clear and unwavered. Time to go spend time with my wife and kids. Bye.

God gave his son to die for us. This makes him this wonderful figure of pure love.

Yet if someone today were to let their child 'die for us' well dang, then they're a murderer.


I just think it's completely stupid that if I saved lives, donated money to the poor, and helped the disabled, but I'm a buddhist...

Then I'm damned to hell, simply because I don't believe in that one particular God.

So, God is SO conceited that you can't believe anything else, or he has a hissy fit and makes you live in eternal pain?

SOUNDS LIKE LOVE TO ME!

Originally posted by TConwell

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Hey so on the sixth day god was totally badass and "then God said, ?????????Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind?????????; and it was so"

Plz explain how dinosaur and person hung out 6K years ago when it takes 17000 times longer (conservative estimate) for lithification to occur. I don't understand this cause it is contradictory.

God said it, I believe it, that settles it.

Other than that ... when I see Him face to face as promised in Acts 1:11, I shall ask Him how it can be. Not sure how I can get the answer to you though since I am not certain of your future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na0nBQoF ... re=related
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[hyyyper]

Originally posted by TConwell

It is written:

circa 700 B.C. - "By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear." (Isaiah 45:23)

circa 61 A.D. - "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Phillipians 2:9-11)

Two different authors, but confessing that there is only one God. Interesting.

The Quran also states there is one god. The point is, around that time people wrote jeruzalem was the center of the world, which would be flat with a sun orbitting it.
Look how that worked out.

History and objectively verifiable evidence are satanic, you can not expect the saved to be caught up in such nonsense.

Originally posted by cjd
Now, in light of that, what has Qwerty done? And if he does exist, why has he waited thousands of years to make himself known?

Qwerty gave us modern technology. And he did not wait thousands of years, he made his presence more than obvious to everybody who owns a computer. Just take a look at the first six letters in the top-left of your keyboard. They had to get there by some sort of higher power, right?

That said, I won't bother trying to defend logic since House was spot on with this one;
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people".