Another religious discussion (Tconwell)

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by cjd
My question is, what proof could you possibly ask for? The Bible promised many things which are happening, but you pass them all off as coincidence.

We don't pass off anything as coincidence BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

Originally posted by cjd
You see demonstrations of healing, you hear of people being led by the Spirit, you hear of people getting glimpses of heaven in death

The same number of people see aliens every year, and coincidentally the only people who see aliens are white people in trailer parks.

Also regarding healing, I wouldn't exactly call the ridiculous death rates at faith healing centers like the place where a 7 year old relative of mine died of pneumonia healing centers. If I had my way I'd have the operators of those places tried for multiple counts of accidental manslaughter. It's totally cool though since God decided it was their time to go right?

Originally posted by cjd
the Bible predicted the rise and fall of every world empire in Jerusalem,

Show me this. I want to see where it explicitly predicts EVERY world empire in Jerusalem and its outcome.

Originally posted by cjd
the Jews are still alive and in the land of Canaan just like God promised to Abraham, but yet again, you pass them all off as coincidence

And the only reason for that is the UN doing everything it can to keep Israel from going into a menopausal rage all the time and just killing everyone around them.

Originally posted by cjd
And personally, I'm not denying science. I don't think it necessarily contradicts the book of Genesis.

???

Originally posted by cjd
Maybe Genesis is a literal history and the world is really 6000 years old. Okay. Maybe it's accurate except for the time frame, and God has been creating the world for billions of years. Okay. Maybe we did evolve, and Genesis is just a metaphor to show how God came to us, and our need for salvation. Okay.

So since all of this is fine and dandy you all don't need to use everything else written in the Bible as an excuse to withhold civil rights. Okay. Just take those passages with a grain of salt like you're doing now. Okay.

Originally posted by TConwell

You are right that personal anecdotes prove nothing; neither does your continuing to ramble about my beliefs - of which you know nothing.

Well I know you won't marry two women to each other which means you're a barrier to civil rights.

I also know you support Ann Coulter the grand Anti Semite.

It's my testimony Bas, it happened to me. Thanks for taking the time to read it and attempt to tear it apart with a world-centered suggestion; but I cannot deny what happened to me, what I felt in my own heart, and what I saw with my own eyes.

The rest may seem to foolish to you and I understand your position and inability to see mine, because until we are common ground you will never understand where I am coming from -- yet, I can only offer you this: I have been where you are.

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14)

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

I am questioning your beliefs because they are absurd. I do not accept your words or the bible as true because I do not have the gullibility to accept everything I hear as truth. You have claimed that it is well documented but all the links you provided cited absolutely no historical evidence what so ever. If I am a fool for being skeptical and not accepting what is obviously false hopes to rational people, then call me what you will. But if you want anybody to take your bullpoop seriously you need to gain some intellectual integrity and some historical evidence to back it up.

"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong." (1 Corinthians 1:27)

"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" (Galatians 3:3)

And the most pivotal verse in dealing with someone like DragonFly:

"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels." (2 Timothy 2:23)

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Well I know you won't marry two women to each other which means you're a barrier to civil rights.

You are such a fool. I don't have to ever perform a marriage ceremony for anyone (hetero or homo) if I don't want too. It is not a mandate that I say YES when/if asked to do it. Geesh ... So, I guess with this logic if a lawyer decides to not take a case he too is a barrier to civil rights? Come on Matthew, you are going to have to do better than that.

So when someone asks for reason, you shake it off and call them foolish. You tell me that I know nothing of your beliefs, but you been where I am. Instead of responding to arguments or thinking rationally, you call everyone that does not accept your position foolish. You have your own intellectual security blanket. You are but a child.

I apologize if I am coming off as too harsh, but after listening to you rant about faith and readily accepting folklore, while also claiming historical evidence, but providing none, how you have had a spiritual experience and those who do not agree are fools, for 5 pages, I have gotten rather frustrated. I am not angry, I am disappointed. I thought you could have at least justified your position using some vague prophecy or single line of historical evidence, but you didn't.

By the time you guys are done fighting about this, you'll only be a a small way from death and finding out the truth of it...lol jk.

But stop caring about other peoples' opinions on your opinion and live life; which is a philosophy I'm sure everyone can agree on, regardless of religion.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

So when someone asks for reason, you shake it off and call them foolish. You tell me that I know nothing of your beliefs, but you been where I am. Instead of responding to arguments or thinking rationally, you call everyone that does not accept your position foolish. You have your own intellectual security blanket. You are but a child.

If insulting (me) makes you feel better, go with it kid. Your have gone on rambling about my faith now, for like 3 pages -- I'd say that I was pretty consistent insecurity and acting much ike Epstein in the front of the class trying to be heard.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

I am not angry, I am disappointed. I thought you could have at least justified your position using some vague prophecy or single line of historical evidence, but you didn't.

http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophe ... lity-bible

There - with scientific probabilities even! I am not sure what else you want, but I am sure you know where Google is as well to find out whatever your mind can dream up. Oddly enough, cannot seem to find anything about the god "Qwerty" ... indeed, that is odd, since you appear to be the only authority on "it".

[Oscar]

Tconwell, if a real close friend of yours came out the closet and asked you to marry him/her with their same sex partner, would you? If not, why not?

Originally posted by Oscar

Tconwell, if a real close friend of yours came out the closet and asked you to marry him/her with their same sex partner, would you? If not, why not?

I have never been asked, but of course, it would have to be approached with a great deal of prayer and humility before God. I have attended a same-sex union in support of two close friends (betcha didn't know that), but would I perform the ceremony? I am just not sure Oscar. Maybe?

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by TConwell

It's my testimony Bas, it happened to me. Thanks for taking the time to read it and attempt to tear it apart with a world-centered suggestion; but I cannot deny what happened to me, what I felt in my own heart, and what I saw with my own eyes.

The rest may seem to foolish to you and I understand your position and inability to see mine, because until we are common ground you will never understand where I am coming from -- yet, I can only offer you this: I have been where you are.

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14)

How should I read this? Do I need to start drinking and abusing people untill I see a holy somebody?
Can god send me to hell if he doesn't even bother to tell me he's real?

[Oscar]

Thank you Tconwell for answering my question.

Originally posted by hyyyper

How should I read this? Do I need to start drinking and abusing people untill I see a holy somebody?

Thanks for making it (me) a mockery. [V]

Originally posted by hyyyper

Can god send me to hell if he doesn't even bother to tell me he's real?

Well ... what do you need? A burning bush? I know this forum is not the first time you have heard about Jesus, Bas. Come on now, draw the conclusion Bas, you have been told by more than one person.

[Oscar]

Oh, I got another question, what if coasterkidmwm asked you to marry him with gerstlcrazy, would you marry them?

Probably not, since I know that Gerst has had sex and Matt would require a virgin.

[Oscar]

!

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by TConwell

Originally posted by hyyyper

How should I read this? Do I need to start drinking and abusing people untill I see a holy somebody?

Thanks for making it (me) a mockery. [V]

Originally posted by hyyyper

Can god send me to hell if he doesn't even bother to tell me he's real?

Well ... what do you need? A burning bush? I know this forum is not the first time you have heard about Jesus, Bas. Come on now, draw the conclusion Bas, you have been told by more than one person.

I'm sorry, but I can't. All the things I life I've witnessed are to be explained by either logic, biology or chemistry. God or jesus has not been a part of my life. I once again urge you to look it from my prespective and you'll get my point.

[Oscar]

Would you marry coasterkidmwm with a virgin chicken? He wants a chicken badly.

Originally posted by hyyyper

I'm sorry, but I can't. All the things I life I've witnessed are to be explained by either logic, biology or chemistry. God or jesus has not been a part of my life. I once again urge you to look it from my prespective and you'll get my point.

I have looked at it from your point because before the age of 22 I too denied that God existed. And so, I have been where you are.

Originally posted by Oscar

Would you marry coasterkidmwm with a virgin chicken? He wants a chicken badly.

! ! What did the chicken ever do to me that I should punish it so?

Finally, you link something at least moderately justifiable.

The first prophecy mentioned is Daniel 9:25-26, it makes a prophecy on something which happens in the new testament. This is no different then saying the prophecy in Harry Potter about how he will fight Voldemort, which came true, proves the existence of Harry Potter and Voldemort. It says the probability of this happening by chance is 1 in 10^5, where they got that, I don't know.

Same thing for the second one. Bethlehem is prophecised to be the birthplace of a character later in the story. The probability is interesting the same as 1, 1 in 10^5. I wonder if the probability for Harry is the same.

Third one is the same too, but it claims that secular historians also noted the event, without mentioning any of them. I guess that is slightly better. 1 in 10^11 for this one. That is some likely indeed.

Fourth makes a prophecy which comes true in the new testament, same problem. I wont be able to go through each of the 2000 prophecies this cite has, but I hope they get better than these.

Yay, the fifth mentions the Zoroastrian Cyrus! Finally a reference to something historically evident. Cyrus died centuries before Isiah was born. So a guy writing about a person from 5 centuries back is in no means a prophecy. Apparently it is 1 in 10^15 though. All I have to do is 30 seconds of research to figure out how wrong these are.

The sixth actually aknowledges that it is a description of a building from the past. Perhaps the odds of them knowing of the Mesopatamians is 1 in 10^9? They were not that well known right?

I'll read some more of these, if any of them stand out, I'll mention it.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

Finally, you link something at least moderately justifiable.

By your standards of course, which (remind me again) are relative to the global scale ... how?

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

I'll read some more of these, if any of them stand out, I'll mention it.

My heart is all a flutter waiting for you to share you vast knowledge combined with your skills in Googling.

I am just reading the quotes they cite on bible gateway, and checking the validity of them. So far none have cited any historical evidence of the prophecies, so none of theme are any good. Each prophecy is made and fulfilled in the bible, so they can not be used to justify the bible. But there are 2000, bound to be a few that are good.

Edit: There are also self-fulfilling prophecies too! E for effort.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

I am just reading the quotes they cite on bible gateway, and checking the validity of them. So far none have cited any historical evidence of the prophecies, so none of theme are any good. Each prophecy is made and fulfilled in the bible, so they can not be used to justify the bible. But there are 2000, bound to be a few that are good.

Edit: There are also self-fulfilling prophecies too! E for effort.

Your sarcasm and closed-mindedness is really a hinderance ...

I am not close minded. To not read it would be close minded, to say you are a fool for not accepting and being part of my position would be close minded. I am a man of science, and science dictates having an open mind.

[Oscar]

JQewseursty LOVES YOU ... REALLY.

Originally posted by Dragon Fly

I am not close minded. To not read it would be close minded, to say you are a fool for not accepting and being part of my position would be close minded. I am a man of science, and science dictates having an open mind.

What continues to mystify me is why I must validate (prove the existence of) my God to you? Who are you? How about you prove there is no God. So there you go Mister Wizard, take that to your science lab and bubble it up in a beaker.

[Oscar]

I am bored, you two, buy this: Becoming God's Masterpiece Transformational Christian Ebook
Then come back and discuss it. [:)]