Board index Off Topic Board Off Topic Discussion Missing Link Fossil Revealed

Missing Link Fossil Revealed

Here, anything goes. Talk about anything that you would like to talk about!

Post May 19th, 2009, 5:02 pm
Oscar User avatar
Founding Member
Founding Member

Posts: 14408
Points on hand: 11,873.60 Points
Bank: 187,052.60 Points
Location: California, USA

Image


Fossil Ida: extraordinary find is 'missing link' in human evolutionPerfectly preserved fossil Ida, unveiled in New York today, provides unprecedented insight into our ancestry

Scientists have discovered an exquisitely preserved ancient primate fossil that they believe forms a crucial "missing link" between our own evolutionary branch of life and the rest of the animal kingdom.

The 47m-year-old primate ????????? named Ida ????????? has been hailed as the fossil equivalent of a "Rosetta Stone" for understanding the critical early stages of primate evolution.

The top-level international research team, who have studied her in secret for the past two years, believe she is the most complete and best preserved primate fossil ever uncovered. The skeleton is 95% complete and thanks to the unique location where she died, it is possible to see individual hairs covering her body and even the make-up of her final meal ????????? a last vegetarian snack.

"This little creature is going to show us our connection with the rest of all the mammals; with cows and sheep, and elephants and anteaters," said Sir David Attenborough who is narrating a BBC documentary on the find. "The more you look at Ida, the more you can see, as it were, the primate in embryo."

"This will be the one pictured in the textbooks for the next hundred years," said Dr J?????????rn Hurum, the palaeontologist from Oslo University's Natural History Museum who assembled the scientific team to study the fossil. "It tells a part of our evolution that's been hidden so far. It's been hidden because the only [other] specimens are so incomplete and so broken there's nothing almost to study." The fossil has been formally named Darwinius masillae in honour of Darwin's 200th birthday year.

It has been shipped across the Atlantic for an unveiling ceremony hosted by the mayor of New York Michael Bloomberg today. There is even talk of Ida being the first non-living thing to feature on the front cover of People magazine.

She will then be transported back to Oslo, via a brief stop at the Natural History Museum in London on Tuesday, 26 May, when Attenborough will host a press conference.

Ida was originally discovered by an amateur fossil hunter in the summer of 1983 at Messel pit, a world renowned fossil site near Darmstadt in Germany. He kept it under wraps for over 20 years before deciding to sell it via a German fossil dealer called Thomas Perner. It was Perner who approached Hurum two years ago.

"My heart started beating extremely fast," said Hurum, "I knew that the dealer had a world sensation in his hands. I could not sleep for 2 nights. I was just thinking about how to get this to an official museum so that it could be described and published for science." Hurum would not reveal what the university museum paid for the fossil, but the original asking price was $1m. He did not see the fossil before buying it ????????? just three photographs, representing a huge gamble.

But it appears to have paid off. "You need an icon or two in a museum to drag people in," said Hurum, "this is our Mona Lisa and it will be our Mona Lisa for the next 100 years."

Hurum chose Ida's nickname because the diminutive creature is at the equivalent stage of development as his six-year-old daughter. Hurum said Ida is very excited about her namesake. "She says, 'there are two Idas now, there's me I'm living and then there's the dead one.'"

"It's caught at a really very interesting moment [in the animal's life] when it fortunately has all its baby teeth and is in the process of forming all its permanent teeth," said Dr Holly Smith, an expert in primate development at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, who was part of the team. "So you have more information in it than almost any fossil you could think of."

The fossil's amazing preservation means that the scientific team has managed to glean a huge amount of information from it, although this required new X-ray techniques that had not previously been applied to any other specimens.

The researchers believe it comes from the time when the primate lineage, that diversified into monkeys, apes and ultimately humans, split from a separate group that went on to become lemurs and other less well known species.

Crucially though, Ida is not on the lemur line because she lacks two key characteristics shared by lemurs ????????? a grooming claw on her second toe and a fused set of teeth called a tooth comb. Also, a bone in her ankle called the talus is shaped like members of our branch of the primates. So the researchers believe she may be on our evolutionary line dating from just after the split with the lemurs.

According to the team's published description of the skeleton in the journal PLoS ONE, Ida was 53cm long and a juvenile around six to nine months old. The team can be sure Ida is a girl because she does not have a penis bone.

"She was at this vulnerable age where you are no longer right with your mother," said Smith, "Just as you leave weaning you are not full grown, but you are on your own."

The unprecedented preservation of Ida meant working out how she died was more like a modern day crime scene investigation than the informed guess-work that palaeontologists usually make do with. The team noticed that she had a broken wrist that had begun to partially heal. The injury did not kill her, but they speculate that it contributed to her premature demise.

"It might be that her mother dropped her once or that she fell down from a tree earlier in her life," Smith said. She survived the accident, but her climbing abilities would have been impaired. Unable to drink from water trapped by tree leaves, she would have had to venture down to the lake to drink. This would have proved to be a fateful decision.

The huge range of magnificently preserved fossils at Messel suggest that the volcanic lake was a death trap. Scientists believe that it sporadically let forth giant belches of poisonous volcanic gases that would have immediately suffocated anything in, around and even over the water. Ida would then have fallen into the water and been preserved in the sediment deep at the bottom.

????????? Atlantic productions' programme, Uncovering Our Earliest Ancestor: The Link, will be broadcast in the UK on Tuesday, 26 May at 9pm on BBC1. Colin Tudge's book, The Link, is published on 20 May by Little Brown.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/ ... ssing-link

-------------------------
It is the missing link, it looks just like Dirk Ermen!
Support Us! - Click Here To Donate $5 Monthly!
Paradox wrote:
No need to tell Oscar about the problems. He is magic.

Post May 19th, 2009, 5:41 pm

Posts: 999
Points on hand: 535.00 Points
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Woah
"Don't be a disability"... yep, still keeping that. :P

Post May 19th, 2009, 9:38 pm

Posts: 277
Points on hand: 58.00 Points
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

so all of you who thought I was the missing link were wrong

Post May 19th, 2009, 9:40 pm
jayman Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 4811
Points on hand: 3,120.00 Points
Location: spring valley


Post May 19th, 2009, 9:45 pm

Posts: 875
Points on hand: 2,219.00 Points
Location: Columbus, Ohio; United States


Post May 20th, 2009, 12:06 am
hyyyper User avatar
True Addicts
True Addicts

Posts: 8705
Points on hand: 9,207.00 Points
Location: The Netherlands

Post May 20th, 2009, 8:20 am

Posts: 6124
Points on hand: 10,012.00 Points
Location: Minnesota, USA
Omg a fossil was found! Everything about Religion is wrong and has just been contradicted!

Hyyyper is the smartest member on this website!

Post May 20th, 2009, 9:34 am
gouldy User avatar
Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 7827
Points on hand: 3,539.00 Points
Bank: 25,088.00 Points
Location: WOLVERHAMPTON, England.

Oscar might have only been joking, but it really REALLY does look like Dirk Ermen!

Post May 20th, 2009, 10:03 am

Posts: 277
Points on hand: 58.00 Points
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy

Omg a fossil was found! Everything about Religion is wrong and has just been contradicted!

Hyyyper is the smartest member on this website!


Religion didn't need this to be wrong and contradictory. It's managed to do that on it's own for centuries.

Post May 20th, 2009, 11:30 am

Posts: 451
Points on hand: 1,151.00 Points
Location: Lafayette, IN, USA

This is, of course, awesome news, but I can't believe that the whole "missing link" nonsense is still being thrown around. While the fossil record may have small holes, there are no major gaps, nothing that would constitute a "link" in any case. Just don't tell the religious zealots, because then you'll have to explain to them the meaning of "evidence" [:P].

Post May 20th, 2009, 11:55 am

Posts: 1106
Points on hand: 96.00 Points
Bank: 4,290.00 Points
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
OK, I should give up Christianity because a fossil of some extinct animal was found by a couple scientists. I really don't get it?

And even if it is the missing link or what not and proves once and for all undoubtedly that we evolved from some sort of ape creature, should I give it up then?

Post May 20th, 2009, 2:36 pm
gouldy User avatar
Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 7827
Points on hand: 3,539.00 Points
Bank: 25,088.00 Points
Location: WOLVERHAMPTON, England.


Post May 20th, 2009, 3:27 pm

Posts: 1106
Points on hand: 96.00 Points
Bank: 4,290.00 Points
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Post May 20th, 2009, 3:47 pm
cjd

Posts: 3370
Points on hand: 4,718.00 Points
Location: New Concord, OH, USA

So, basically, because a link has been found between apes and other mammals, that is supposed to be a ground-shaking "missing link" that proves that religion is wrong? Maybe I'm missing something, isn't the "missing link" supposed to be between humans and apes?

Besides, I'm still open to the possibility that science is the "how" while religion is the "why," so this changes absolutely nothing IMO. A wonderful scientific find, sure, but it's getting seriously over-hyped as some sort of death blow to religion, when it probably will only reassure the minds of those who already don't believe in God, and fail to sway any of the minds of people who do. After all, our faith is not based in the wisdom of men, but in demonstrations of power and of Spirit that no wisdom can explain away. (1 Corinthians 2:4-5)

Post May 20th, 2009, 4:32 pm
hyyyper User avatar
True Addicts
True Addicts

Posts: 8705
Points on hand: 9,207.00 Points
Location: The Netherlands
^Do you, by chance, have any examples of power and spirit?
And why in the first place are you quoting a more than thousand year old book? Kinda outdated isn't it?
Image

Post May 20th, 2009, 6:38 pm

Posts: 6124
Points on hand: 10,012.00 Points
Location: Minnesota, USA
Hyyyper you are unintelligent and it's vital that you discontinue your talking.

Before you lot of socially deprived, ugly geniuses go retard-religion-mode:

-Converting someone from religion to non-religion won't happen here. Shut up.
-Converting someone from non-religion to religion won't happen here. Shut up.

Worry about your own beliefs and let them be that, don't discuss reasons for keeping them or reasons for others changing their beliefs because you sound like an idiot and you only make people mad. Show some friggin class and respect and get off your computer if you feel a need to have these conversations on a website.


------Missing Link Related------

Wooh! Must be a big deal if it's Google's theme [:P]

Post May 20th, 2009, 6:56 pm
cjd

Posts: 3370
Points on hand: 4,718.00 Points
Location: New Concord, OH, USA

Originally posted by hyyyper

^Do you, by chance, have any examples of power and spirit?
And why in the first place are you quoting a more than thousand year old book? Kinda outdated isn't it?

Do we really need to turn this into another religious debate topic? I'm sure everyone is sick of them on this site by now. As I said in the last one, I believe because I have personally experienced the guidance and discernment of the Holy Spirit, also because every prayer I have made has been answered, and also because of the prophecies of Daniel which predicted both the rise and fall of every major world empire to control Jerusalem, and the exact year Christ would be baptized.

That is my experience. You're entitled to your own opinion based on your own experiences. I'm just sharing mine, and why I think that although this fossil is a major find, it is not necessarily the huge ground-shaking event that will make faith null and void as many have made it out to be.

Post May 20th, 2009, 6:59 pm

Posts: 451
Points on hand: 1,151.00 Points
Location: Lafayette, IN, USA

^^Of course it's a big deal, it's a gorgeously well-preserved fossil with a lot of interesting facets! As much as you'd like it to be, the point here isn't religion, it's all the stupid misrepresentations of evolutionary theory.

Post May 20th, 2009, 7:13 pm

Posts: 323
Points on hand: 1,492.00 Points
Location: Culver City, CA, USA
Maybe it's Jesus's skeleton....so maybe he's the missing link and both religion and science was right...................


......that would be pretty cool.[flush]
Sometimes you gotta sacrifice a little bit of yourself to get the job done.

Post May 20th, 2009, 7:24 pm

Posts: 84
Points on hand: 1,687.00 Points
Location: Erin, Ontario, Canada
Originally posted by hyyyper

In your face, religion!


Lol And this is very intriguing. Kind of makes you think what other things haven't we discovered yet.
I'm Better Looking Than You.

Post May 20th, 2009, 8:12 pm
cjd

Posts: 3370
Points on hand: 4,718.00 Points
Location: New Concord, OH, USA

Originally posted by Kevin Brennan

^^Of course it's a big deal, it's a gorgeously well-preserved fossil with a lot of interesting facets! As much as you'd like it to be, the point here isn't religion, it's all the stupid misrepresentations of evolutionary theory.

I'm not saying that it isn't. I'm just responding to the people who said stuff like "Take that, religion." If nobody had tried to use this to attack Christianity, I would have kept my mouth shut.

Post May 20th, 2009, 8:17 pm

Posts: 6124
Points on hand: 10,012.00 Points
Location: Minnesota, USA
Originally posted by Kevin Brennan

As much as you'd like it to be, the point here isn't religion, it's all the stupid misrepresentations of evolutionary theory.


Is it illiteracy that caused you to make this mistake? Try reading again. It is not me that wants the point to be religion...

Post May 20th, 2009, 8:32 pm

Posts: 451
Points on hand: 1,151.00 Points
Location: Lafayette, IN, USA

Sorry, Gerst, it's actually just a bad grasp on colloquialism. Should've adressed it in the third person.

I'm not sure what illiteracy has to do with this, other than the scientific variety [;)]

Post May 20th, 2009, 8:38 pm
hyyyper User avatar
True Addicts
True Addicts

Posts: 8705
Points on hand: 9,207.00 Points
Location: The Netherlands
Originally posted by cjd

Originally posted by hyyyper

^Do you, by chance, have any examples of power and spirit?
And why in the first place are you quoting a more than thousand year old book? Kinda outdated isn't it?

Do we really need to turn this into another religious debate topic? I'm sure everyone is sick of them on this site by now. As I said in the last one, I believe because I have personally experienced the guidance and discernment of the Holy Spirit, also because every prayer I have made has been answered, and also because of the prophecies of Daniel which predicted both the rise and fall of every major world empire to control Jerusalem, and the exact year Christ would be baptized.

That is my experience. You're entitled to your own opinion based on your own experiences. I'm just sharing mine, and why I think that although this fossil is a major find, it is not necessarily the huge ground-shaking event that will make faith null and void as many have made it out to be.


Says the guy who started quoting bible verses. Great move, sports.
Image

Post May 20th, 2009, 9:24 pm

Posts: 6124
Points on hand: 10,012.00 Points
Location: Minnesota, USA
Originally posted by hyyyper

^Do you, by chance, have any examples of power and spirit?
And why in the first place are you quoting a more than thousand year old book? Kinda outdated isn't it?


Says the guy who can't think.

Next

Return to Off Topic Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post