Question for Engineering Types

[Coasterkidmwm]

http://www.intimidator305.com/public/la ... e&chip=419

I've noticed the newer Intamin rides like iSpeed and Intimidator 305 are using supports with a square geometry as opposed to tubes. Anyone know a good reason for this recent switch like it being stronger with less steel usage or something?

[hyyyper]

The reason is always cost. Aparantly it's cheaper to use square supports. That doesn't mean it's stronger, because for the same amount of steel, circular supports are the strongest. It could be that it is easier/cheaper to manufacture square supports, or easier to transport or whatever reason.
In the end, all things considerd, square is cheaper. At least in these two instances.

Makes sense that its easier to produce...especially making connections and everything

To make it hard to make recreations in No Limits

jk lol

I don't know if it's my eyes or not, but it does look like the spacing inbetween square supports are closer together than tube supported tracks. I may be wrong.

Agreed that square supports would be cheaper and faster to manufacture than circular ones cutting down on draft to construction time. Or maybe they are stronger. If anyone here has an engineering degree that can support that, idk.

[gouldy]

Cost. That's what business boils down to at the end of the day. I am a mechanical engineering designer for a company where everything has to be designed on a shoe string budget. I will try to break down where the savings are:

Supply.
In terms of construction steels, the most common types are RSJ (I beams), RSA (angle iron, L Beams), RHS (Rectangular and square Hollow Box Section). The huge tubular steel pipes that coaster manufacturers seems to like using the most are very uncommon in terms of construction. They are used, but usually as ties rather than struts. Anyway, this means that RHS is much more readily available in a much wider array of sizes for a lesser cost because it's a more competetive market. Above this, however, is that Box Section steel is much easier to produce than thick wall tubular steel, which means that as a standard, it is less expensive to the secondary market.

Design and Manufacture
In terms of the manufacture of the supports, firstly handling and storage of Box Section is a lot easier than tubular steel is as it can be stacked with greater ease and can be stored on normal pallets etc. Cutting of Box section is much more easily accomplished. The angular welded joints between two sections of tubular steel are quite complicated to cut into the end of the steel (I probably need a sketch or 3D model to explain this) in order to create the joint between the two sections. One straight cut on an angle is all that is needed to complete the same task with Box Section. Other manufacturing reasons apply, but I won't go into it, I'll bore you more than I already have.

Transport and Logistics
Bescause of the Box Section's ability to stack without much aid from straps and other such things, it's not only safer to stack the pallets, but it also provides you with a flatter packed pallet, meaning you can stack more pallets onto a single lorry. If it takes 100 lorries worth to get all of the steel to site, it might save you 2 or 3 truck loads. Which is a saving of a few grand straight away.

There are some other things that help acheive a saving but... yeah.

Disadvantages:

The cross section of Box Section is actually not as good at dissipating load as tubular steel. This may mean that more supports along a section of track are required in order to dissipate the forces correctly through the structure. However, if the saving on the production of individual supports is great enough, despite more supports being required, an overall saving is evidentally still attainable.

Hope I possibly cleared it up, although I may have confused you further

[Coasterkidmwm]

Nah you did just fine.

[gouldy]

The only reason I can think that coaster companies use tubular steel anyway is aesthetics if I'm honest. The structural advatages are minimal and the extra manufacturing costs alone negate that. If you look at all the cheapo coasters, like Pinfari, all their supports are box section. Frame work is just far easier to construct with box.

In fact, I feel compelled now (cus I'm odd like that) to try and find out exactly why the larger companies do use tubular steel.


On a different note, I305 looks a lot more impressive in reality than I was thinking it was going to look when we first saw the 3D models, looks pretty intense!

^Thanks gouldy. You explained everything quite simply. I couldn't imagine anyone being confused with what you said.

As far as aesthetics, I think the new box supports (I305) look better than tubular.

[hyyyper]

I'm pretty sure coasters are not using circular steel just because of aesthetics. A coaster doesn't look more or less ugly with round or square supports.
Imagine telling a park they can have a 11 million ugly or a 12 milion cool coasters.

I think circular steel has been the standard for so long because of it's strenght. Perhaps Intamin now uses a new production method that made square easier to produce and make it cheaper than round in the long run.

[gouldy]

I also doubt very much that the tubular steel is used because of aesthetics, but I really am struggling to think of a valid reason otherwise. The box section supports just seem the logical choice whichever way I look at it.

The only thing I can think is that they have their own facility for producing the tubular steel to their own specification, but I seriously doubt they have the capabilty to do that. Considering the size of the stuff they manufacture, the coaster factories are all pretty small in size and couldn't possibly also house a steel forging mill!

I have a feeling this ride will have really good airtime on that little hill after the first hill and the 3rd hill.

B&M has their track made in Ohio at a steel fabrication company. I'm not sure if they do all of B&Ms rides but I know all of the US as well as the Asian ones have come out of there.

http://www.clermontsteel.com/

It may be, but beings B&M is a Swiss based company, there might be a plant in Europe. I'm not quite sure.

I'm pretty sure that the lift and brakes for all B&M coasters are made in Switzerland. Based off of what I'm pretty sure of, I would like to assume that they can also do the rest of the coaster there as well for the local market.

[AyTrane]

It's easier to fabricate different sized support tubes out of box steel than have to create larger round tube...which they have to make out of sections of flat sheet steel coiled and welded.

[gouldy]

^ The Box Section is made in the same way.

[AyTrane]

Bot they wouldn't have to coil it.

I think that it looks better with the box supports, I just think intimidator would look alot different with yellow circular supports. Also intimidator is lookin good, lots of airtime I'm thinking but the only thing I'm kind of curious about is that they have magnetic trims before the one airtime hill. Hopefully it doesnt effect the impact of the ride too greatly.

Edit: here is a link of the pic-

http://www.kdfansite.com/gallery/displa ... fullsize=1

you can see in the bottom left that there are trims on the hill

Also you can see that there is SOME tubular supporting on the lift/drop.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Who gives a damn about the trims it has the first drop. That is all you need

Do you really think that it won't be high g force mania through those twists and turns at that speed without a trim? I agree with coasterkidmwm.