Newton 2 Issue

I'm curious as to why you cannot create a decent intamin or b&m hyper style drop in newton. Using curved geometry, you can create a decent drop, however the drop is basically just straight. Even if you crank the lead out to 60 the drop remains basically straight with little to no curve throughout. Unlike H:sak, Newton 2 does not include any radius changing variables such as Zerrx or Zerrs. This is really annoying because i don't want to go back to the days of dicking around with H:SAK. I love newton 2 in and out and this is really the only issue I've had with the program.

I'm sure there's a way, but unless you're really good, it will involve a lot of screwing with Gforce transitions and such. I've never tried an Intamin hyper drop, but I've noticed that B&M hypers' transitions from airtime to positive G's are becoming shorter and shorter. i guess my point here is that you should try doing your drop with force transitions rather than curved geometry.

Well what it is is that you have a straight piece for your lift, then you have a curved geometry piece for the start of your crest, normally to about -14 degree because that's where the train supposedly detaches from the chain. So from there you put in the speed at the end of that piece of track and put it at 0 lead out and then you switch to single force zones to start your track. Well, when doing so this creates a flat spot on the transition downward. If you want to make a curved drop forget it, that flat spot becomes a horrible jerk. So is there anyway possible to get around this flat spot of jerk? It really ruins trying to make a ride with a lift in Newton 2.

Yeah. When I make the crest, Newton seems to automatically set the g-force of the following section to the correct value based on the radius of the curved section I made. I don't know if yours does this too, but I assume it does. Also, I use multi-zone sections whenever possible. I think they're a bit more full-featured than their single-zone counterparts.

lol you still don't know how to make a newton drop.

Lift Crest

Step1: Curve Geometry, leadin at a numerical value, and leadout of 0. This will represent where the lift ends at the lift, so use a small value for the angle. Speed settings should be corresponding to your lift settings.

Step2: Curved Geometry. The leadin/leadout should both be 0 and the radius should be slightly larger than the previous zone. The speed settings should be auto, and the angle should be a significantly small value depending on what type of ride you're creating. The reason for this will be explained in the next and final step.

Step3: Insert a single/multi-force zone. This will give your ride the drop effect. The previous zone is simply to have the control of the airtime on the drop. The lower the value, the more flat the drop will be, so it's used to get good momentum on the train.

Try this out for just 5 minutes, and you will be amazed by the results.

^ Thanks for the help, I pretty much have it now, although there is the slightest twitch going from the first curved and second. Is this because I added some banking? I was wanting my drop to turn a bit but can I not bank that second piece? Do I have to wait till the first single/multi zone?

And to the whole lol you still don't know how to make a Newton drop, this is really my first attempt, I've only done two launch coasters before this. So no need for the sarcasm. But again, thank you for the help, that was appreciated, haha.

The lol was to TMV, I didn't read your comment, but I won't be sarcastic.

The little jerk inbetween the two curves is probably because of the radius, so you need to be very careful with the radius difference. That's the only thing I guarantee stinks about curved geometry, and will need HSAK's system implemented instead of what it is now. and don't bank until the force zone. the curved geometry would be banking on a straight axis, which is bad in most cases. And no problem I just thought everyone else figured it out before me haha

Alright, got ya. And yeah, I've been messing around with it for awhile now and I think I have something that works. So thanks again, and sorry about the sarcasm confusion, lol.

Haha no prob, glad to help

i don't need your sarcasm either btw. i can make some awesome things in newton, but a b&m or intamin style drop isn't one of them... no need to insult me just because you know something that i dont know...

Btw, i tried your technique. Between the 2 curved geometry sections there is a slight pump. This is most likely due to the second one having a "slightly" larger radius, as you instructed me to do.

Dude, obviously you're gonna have a pump, a pump is an inconsistency in the curve of an element. So technically, almost all inversions, drop, anything on a roller coaster (other than a B&M dive immelmann which is quite round or 360* loop) has a pump or two. A tear-drop loop has a pump at the top of the loop. A pump is something in all rides, if pumps did not exist, we would not be able to transfer G's correctly through an inversion. So...if you've ever seen a drop on any ride, there are pumps. Parabolic hill-shaping is one HUGE pump, it's completely different throughout the whole element.

Originally posted by tmv8888

i don't need your sarcasm either btw. i can make some awesome things in newton, but a b&m or intamin style drop isn't one of them... no need to insult me just because you know something that i dont know...

Btw, i tried your technique. Between the 2 curved geometry sections there is a slight pump. This is most likely due to the second one having a "slightly" larger radius, as you instructed me to do.

Dude relax, the sarcasm was a joke, I already addressed that with Jensenator. And yes the pump is an inconsistency because of the slightly larger radius, but that's how (from my observation) drops are with a crest and an increasing radius.

Originally posted by Tidus

Dude, obviously you're gonna have a pump, a pump is an inconsistency in the curve of an element. So technically, almost all inversions, drop, anything on a roller coaster (other than a B&M dive immelmann which is quite round or 360* loop) has a pump or two. A tear-drop loop has a pump at the top of the loop. A pump is something in all rides, if pumps did not exist, we would not be able to transfer G's correctly through an inversion. So...if you've ever seen a drop on any ride, there are pumps. Parabolic hill-shaping is one HUGE pump, it's completely different throughout the whole element.

There's a difference between a pump and an instant radius change though, which is what it sounds like he has. What you need for the newer B&M hyper drops is a smooth transition from the radius at the top of the lift to the much larger radius at the steepest point of the drop. I know this can be done close to perfectly with the HSAK but I think in newton you're going to have that jerk no matter what if you're instantly changing to a much larger radius.

Use the linear transition.

yes, the pump is caused by an instant radius change from 16 to 18. There is no smooth way to transfer from one radius to another in newton.

I ment to say, use the curved geometry, only one section for the crest and the drop, make a small leadin and a huge leadout and use the linear transition for the leadout.

Originally posted by Vid_w

I ment to say, use the curved geometry, only one section for the crest and the drop, make a small leadin and a huge leadout and use the linear transition for the leadout.

This is exactly what I've been using method-wise. Works pretty darn good for most B&M drops, but I think if entropy can implement an increasing radius function in a future patch for newton we'd all be in heaven.

Or... IMPLEMENT THE HSAK FORMULA SOMEHOW. That would be glorious. I am not very good with computers so if that is impossible, my bad.

^Why would you need to combine them into one program? Just use both if you want elements of each. There's no rule that says a coaster has to be entirely built with one method or the other.

This is an excellent query. The transition from lift to drop is one of the more difficult to get right, and there are two general ways of doing it.

The first, using a curved geometry section, is described in the first tutorial on my Youtube page, and other responses have alluded to this kind of technique:

What I wouldn't recommend is joining two curved sections with different radii--that will produce a kind of kink, as others have noted.

The second uses a force based section, and is more powerful (but trickier). To use this method, first turn on the vertical radius rails in the display options. Then create the top of the lift with the curved section as you would in the tutorial above, including setting the speed of the lift chain. Now, add a new section, then switch to a single force type. Note that since the normal force remains constant, the radius of curvature quickly diverges as the track asymptotes to a straight line (with a slope of acos[normal force in g's], for those paying attention).

What we're wanting to do is make the quickly diverging radius more gradual by adjusting the force transition. Switch the normal transition to linear, then adjust the time of the section and normal force transition amount until you produce a pleasing shape (i.e., one where the radius smoothly and gradually increases). It might be better to use a timewarp transition instead of linear: adjust the tension to -50 so that it's almost linear, then play around with the centering to get the right shape.

By adjusting the section time and transition shape/amount, you should be able to produce a wide variety of drops, including those with rolls.