Board index Roller Coaster Games No Limits Coaster What is the key to good Handbuilding?

What is the key to good Handbuilding?

Discuss anything involving No Limits Coaster Simulation.

Post September 17th, 2010, 11:31 am

Posts: 379
Points on hand: 1,051.00 Points
Location: Santa Clarita, CA, USA
Originally posted by cjd

I've actually recently retrograded to hand-building... and here are the tips that I always find myself using:

1. Use at least one vertex per 90 degrees of turning, if not more. Bezier curves are not good at making turns wider than this, and this also makes the "chop method" possible, as that method will only hurt segments that are too long. Also, the included NL track smoother is really good at ironing out the bumps in individual vertexes, but it often completely screws up the shaping of coasters with sparsely-placed vertexes.

2. For shaping elements, try starting with longer segments, ones that will just generally define the shape of the element that you want. Then split it up into smaller vertexes from there, and refine the shaping that way. This generally makes smoothing a lot easier than if you were to go vertex by vertex, which can result in some shaping that you really didn't want, and more difficult smoothing later. Then the only issue left after that is how to smooth out the original vertex... and the AHG or chop methods are very good at this.

3. Make sure that the vertex handles never cross over the track. If you want smooth track, all of the vertex handles should be outside tangents to the curvature. The one exception would be if you are going for authentic Arrow and CCI transitions, in which case having the vertexes directly on top of the track produces the traditional jolt going into them.

4. In general, you should make the length of the vertex handles proportionate to the length of the segment that they define. If there is a long segment before the vertex, use a long handle. If it's short, use a shorter handle. This is the general rule for getting the right flow.

5. Vertexes that are equal distances apart from each-other make smoothing a lot easier. The included NL track smoother can either be your best friend if you use proportional vertexes, or completely mess the coaster up if they are too variable.

6. This is what I call the "chop method." Basically what you do is isolate a bumpy vertex by cutting the segments immediately before and after that vertex in half. Then delete the original vertex. This will re-shape the track that it was on. Then re-split the resulting long segment, and delete the two vertexes that were created by splitting the segments in the first place. Run this resultant new vertex, and the two vertexes immediately before and after it, through the track smoother, and the result is usually a much smoother vertex. (Once again, this only works when vertexes are relatively close together to start with.)

7. Use AHG with a 0-value heartline, all black, and a low vertex #. What this will do is take your element and re-shape it with equidistant vertexes, but not so many that you can't still work it by hand. Sometimes this solves smoothing problems all by itself.

8. Experiment with vertex handles, and look at how various changes in their length/placement relative to the adjacent track impacts the flow of the vertex. Take mental notes, so that the next time you see a troublesome bump, you can observe the nature of that bump's flow and know what kind of vertex-shaping errors traditionally cause a bump to behave like that.

9. Look at the shaping of real coasters, and how they flow. The more you know how real elements are shaped, the easier it will be to make properly-shaped elements in NL. Don't guess. Do some research.

10. Try downloading a few hand-built coasters that are already smooth, and take a look at how they did it. I recommend some of the old coasters on this site, from Hansixx, GFA, and the like, in the days before Elementary and AHG, and see how they are shaped. This was a huge help for me when I was getting started.

11. Try making the shaping of your elements either close to circular, or continually tightening-widening. If a turn has flat spots or pointy spots, it will result in g-spikes and what we call "pumping."

12. Practice, practice, practice. There is no better method.


Thank you so much CJD! This is the best advice I've gotten so far! I appreciate this so much!!

Post September 17th, 2010, 12:43 pm

Posts: 3153
Points on hand: 2,837.21 Points
Bank: 6,969.69 Points

Post September 17th, 2010, 1:34 pm

Posts: 551
Points on hand: 872.00 Points
Location: helmond, noord--brabant, Netherlands
And still hes around trolling.

If your here because youre jealous that, with all the good rides you have, you never mastered the handbuilding thing, then please just get lost. There are actualy people who enjoy building by hand instead of using the calculator. Those people generaly dont give a poop about the things you care about in coasters, they JUST ENJOY WHAT THERE BUILDING.

Get over it and either help by giving tips or get lost.

Ontopic, I think the main thing about handbuilding is riding a ride over, and over and over again. Just look for all the small details and shapings. My best tip however is, above the enormous amount CJD summed up: Practice a lot.

Post September 17th, 2010, 2:00 pm
Coasterkidmwm User avatar
True Addicts
True Addicts

Posts: 12283
Points on hand: 8,049.10 Points
Bank: 15,000.00 Points
Location: Illinois, USA
To add to what rct3crazy said, make sure you haven't purposely smoothed out what everntually becomes a large scale pump. That can need to quite a lot of work down the drain.

Also if you're building "off-grid" (not making everything a 90 degree turn) I find it best to build the element in a different track file and then attach it as an element later.

Originally posted by dcs221

lol @ gouldy and his lame cheap shots.

So you weren't making lame cheap shots? Interesting...
"Careful man, there's a beverage here!"

Post September 17th, 2010, 2:40 pm

Posts: 3153
Points on hand: 2,837.21 Points
Bank: 6,969.69 Points
RCT, why completely ignore gouldy and come at me?

This has absolutely nothing to do with being jealous of anything...if I wanted to continue handbuilding, I would have.

Post September 17th, 2010, 3:31 pm
Jer User avatar

Posts: 991
Points on hand: 1,089.00 Points
Location: New Jersey

Coasterkid your advice for building against the grid isn't always the best, the best was I find is to place a support beam at the angle you want to build the track, and as you build and smooth align the heart line/spine of the track to that support.

maybe thats just my dislike of copy and pasting elements together speaking.
Phoenix|Maverick|Skyrush|RFII|Leviathan|Bizzaro[SFNE]|Bdash|Griffon|El Toro|Verbolten
RIP Chiller: 1997-2008

Post September 17th, 2010, 3:35 pm
hyyyper User avatar
True Addicts
True Addicts

Posts: 8705
Points on hand: 9,207.00 Points
Location: The Netherlands
Originally posted by Jer

Coasterkid your advice for building against the grid isn't always the best, the best was I find is to place a support beam at the angle you want to build the track, and as you build and smooth align the heart line/spine of the track to that support.

maybe thats just my dislike of copy and pasting elements together speaking.


That might work in top view, but smoothing an element in side view only works if the element is either positioned on the x or z axis. Then it is easier to copy-and-paste the elements.
Image

Post September 17th, 2010, 3:37 pm

Posts: 3153
Points on hand: 2,837.21 Points
Bank: 6,969.69 Points
Using that technique can leave imperfections that are very hard, if not impossible to detect. The method described before works better for long, straight (from the top view) elements like camelbacks.

Post September 17th, 2010, 3:40 pm

Posts: 2077
Points on hand: 4,765.00 Points
Location: Canton, Massachusetts, USA

I use show heartline and ride on 3d view for smoothing off axis track (actually pretty much all my track)...seems to work alright for me.

Using that technique can leave imperfections that are very hard, if not impossible to detect.


Then why do they really matter?

Post September 17th, 2010, 3:50 pm

Posts: 3153
Points on hand: 2,837.21 Points
Bank: 6,969.69 Points
I personally try to get my work as good as is physically possible. I also meant those imperfections are hard to detect and fix in the editor, but are often still noticeable and make your ride look like it is of a bit lower quality to me.

Post September 17th, 2010, 4:46 pm
gouldy User avatar
Premium Member
Premium Member

Posts: 7827
Points on hand: 3,634.00 Points
Bank: 25,088.00 Points
Location: WOLVERHAMPTON, England.

Lame cheap shots?

I was merely attempting to move the topic along 0:-D

Previous

Return to No Limits Coaster

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post