What should Cedar Point's next coasters be?

I think Cedar Point should build TWO new coasters at one time. They could build a wicked maurer sohne spinning coaster, AND a decent gravity group wooden coaster for under 15 mil. There isn't a good spinner here in OH or really anywhere close. Exterminator is a grat dark ride, but the layout is too common. Waldameer has Steel Dragon but nobody from here has heard of that park. So a record spinner would be a really big draw, and adding a GG woodie would be fun and inexpensive that way they wont lose the coaster war when they burn down Mean Streak for the insurance money ;)

Hopefully they'll stop playing around and build smaller coasters on a larger higher capacity scale like an El Loco, the previously mentioned spinner, or something else easily twistable and compact.

A Gravity Group ride at Cedar Point would last about two hours before it got rough.

I hope a B&M MEGA or Flyer

They should build a BM Flyer, a Diving or a GCI Woody

Originally posted by Freddie

A Gravity Group ride at Cedar Point would last about two hours before it got rough.

any wooden coaster at CP would get rough, they don't take care of them well. I like GCI but to me their coasters are kinda dull compared to GG. Don't get me wrong, they arent actually dull just not as exciting. And CHEAPER.



Renegade $6,500,000

Length: 3113'
Height: 97' 6"
Drop: 91' 5"
Inversions: 0
Speed: 51.3 mph
Duration: 2:00





Ravine Flyer II $6,000,000 us
Length: 2900'
Height: 80'
Drop: 115'
Inversions: 0
Speed: 57 mph
Duration: 1:30

Plus I love 90 degree banked curves on wooden coasters! OMG do I love them lol





Just some random stats. Plus I don't see either one getting too rough with proper care. Rode both this year and RF is smoother

They're cheaper for a reason. And Kentucky Rumbler is very close to Voyage for me, and blows Hades out of the water. The 90s are also terrible to me, by far the weakest parts of both of those rides.

I don't know how a GG rides, but what I do know is that I love both Joris en de Draak and Troy, I would prefer them over Colossos (intamin prefab, heide park) all the time...

Well... I do really like Kentucky Rumbler. But I don't think it was anywhere near Voyage imo. Plus Voyage is #1 and K.R. only got #16th (I do think thats too low though)

GG has 3 in the top ten and GCI only has two. So if I had a park and two companies were neck and neck in fan base, I would go for the least expensive with the highest potential for revenue. Plus I feel that GG would be more prone to making a far more unique wooden coaster should Cedar Point drop a rediculous amount of money into it. A $16,000,000 GG would be insane!

yeah okay, but take in account that voyage has a unique setting with the landscape and all, just wait untill that new GCI in Asia. GG's are almost all higher then the average GCI

A 16 million dollar price tag + wooden coaster makes me think of a SOB failure.

A good GG could be done smoothly with timberliners... but I know no one aside from me wants to hear that. I don't like the kind of back pain rides like Voyage and Legend give me.

[slosprint]

Having ridden both Ravine Flier and Renegade I must say that Renegade is far better imo. Ravine flier just sorta dies near the end, whereas Renegade is fantastic throughout the whole ride.

Originally posted by Freddie

A Gravity Group ride at Cedar Point would last about two hours before it got rough.

With Timberliners? Theyll produce less stresses on the track than Millennium Flyers, I talked to Michael G. from TGG about that during Holiwood Nights.

Eh I still don't think they'd be able to handle it, especially if M&V were to build it (I couldn't see CP building it in house).

Originally posted by maxamaxam

yeah okay, but take in account that voyage has a unique setting with the landscape and all, just wait untill that new GCI in Asia. GG's are almost all higher then the average GCI

Good point... I would hope that they would get something unique. I've been promoting GG mainly because their designs seem more original over-all. GCI has awesome coasters with some modified elements to make their mark. But over-all they seem to favor tried and true methods. Does that make sense?
I would tend to lean towards breaking the molds of wooden coasters at this point. We can do so much now and still fall back on layouts from the 20's. You don't see many steel companys rushing out to make various versions of old Corkscrew layouts anymore, they are on to bigger and better things now. The element bank for wooden coasters has long been stale, which is dissapointing to me because they can pretty much do anything steel coasters can do now.

Look at El Toro, if we can do that, why not a vertical drop? Or a sped up launch-ish lift? I'm sure we could have a lim launched wooden coaster by now, why not? If steel coasters can flip riders upside-down suspended over nothing down vertical hyper drops, wooden coasters should get more than just airtime hills and twisty turns y'know? I think the market needs to be more innovative. And while these two companies are in the spotlight and both can try harder, I think GG seems to be picking up on it a bit faster
What would be great

No. No breaking wood coaster molds. You have steel coasters to ruin with gimmicks. Leave wood alone.

[Dirk_Ermen]

Originally posted by Freddie

No. No breaking wood coaster molds. You have steel coasters to ruin with gimmicks. Leave wood alone.

QFT

Not that all of that would be needed. But why is it still sooo hard to build a wooden coaster with a freaking loop in it? People have been screwing it up for over 100 years. Really? And secondly, what do you mean gimmicks? Gimmicks are like special effects or lasers or things that make a sucky ride seem better than it was built. Dark rides use gimmicks, disney uses gimmicks. If you build something in a coaster its a coaster.

Wood coasters are designed to be out of control, they don't need things like loops to make them fun. The simple fact that the train doesn't tight to the rails so it shakes and rattles in itself is the fun part. Thus adding inversions and launches and trying to be 'innovative' with something that doesn't need any innovation would be considered gimmicks to me. Hitting an under banked turn at 50moh or a 'surprise' airtime pop because the drop isn't perfectly shaped is where the fun is. They don't need anything else.

freddie says it all above, wooden coasters are about the sudden changes of direction and thus change in G-forces... there all about switching from -1g lateral to + 1g lateral and from -,5 g to +3,5g at the same time.... This is where I think both GCI and GG win it over any other wooden coaster becouse they push this to the extreme with turns that have wrong or no banking at all and those sudden airtime pops which make you fly all over the place and make you feel really out of control

Freddie, well wait and see. These new batch of woodies by TGG are running Timberliners and I really think youll see maintenance drop by half at least compared to the rides running PTC's.

Yes, part of what makes a GCI track so well is their impeccable detail when actually building the ride but a larger part IS the trains and how little strain is actually put on the track by those trains.

I think a ride by TGG with the Timberliners thats not as extreme as Voyage with the laterals would last quite a while. CP could keep up a wooden coaster as long as the maintenance wasnt so steep which is what happened with MS.


But Ill reserve my full endorsement till we see these rides and how they hold up for a few years.

Originally posted by Freddie

Wood coasters are designed to be out of control, they don't need things like loops to make them fun. The simple fact that the train doesn't tight to the rails so it shakes and rattles in itself is the fun part. Thus adding inversions and launches and trying to be 'innovative' with something that doesn't need any innovation would be considered gimmicks to me. Hitting an under banked turn at 50moh or a 'surprise' airtime pop because the drop isn't perfectly shaped is where the fun is. They don't need anything else.

Perfect description of why boulder dash is one of the best coasters ever built and does not have a single twist in its track, and was built in the CCI era. Which sadly ceases to exist.

Edit:
By the way theres this little thing that parks with ptcs can transfer to easily. They are called trailered ptcs

They exist. Notice that the front two have two wheels, these are not trailored, these are the front cars that act as a trailer for the rest of teh train. There happens to be two of them.

Where is that train?

build a medical [CENSORED WORD] store for project 18

Didnt they try trailered PTC's on Hercules to no avail? Didnt help at all?

And if they didnt, everywhere Ive read about those I heard they were utter crap. Ive read that Texas Giant, Timber Wolf and Thunder Run ran with the 2 bench trailered and were replaced in short order.

no. i dont think so. No they used these trains.



They are 2 bench trailered, not one bench. Which puts even more stress on the track than the normal ones. ptc stopped selling them.

And this is a good explaination of why they were so bad, by rideman on coasterbuzz forums

The reason for the new trains has to do with the mechanical construction of the old trains. The lead car is okay, but each subsequent car on the Predator has only one axle. That in itself would not be such a problem except that in order to balance the weight of the car on that one axle, the axle is located beneath the footwell for the rear seat. That is sensible enough for the first trailer. But the next car then attaches to the hitch located at the extreme rear end of the car.

Now if you grab a single-axle trailer by its front hitch and swing that hitch from side to side, the trailer will yaw on a vertical axis located at the center of the axle. Anything behind the axle will tend to swing in the opposite direction. From this you can see that if you have, say, a six car train made up of these single axle trailers, when you try to pull it around a curve, each car will point in the opposite direction from the car ahead of it. This will tend to cause all of the cars to oscillate all the way through and beyond the curve, simply because the hitch needs to be (but isn't) aligned with the car's axis or rotation.

I don't think PTC ever figured this out. But then, they didn't need to. Their customers figured out that the trailered trains didn't work right. It doesn't matter why they don't work right, but over the course of many years, almost all...with Predator and Tree Topper being the only exceptions I know of...of the trailered PTC cars have been replaced. And this year, Predator gets a new train.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

The one bench ptc have the wheel at the very back and each car is closer together so they pretty much work just like a millenium flyer with ptc restrains, which = kick ass.