Is everyone here a republican?

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by cjd
If it was presented in a logical manner, as one rational alternative out of many choices, it would make the world a much better place.

It has NEVER worked, EVER. Doesn't it concern you that Haiti and Africa, which were for the most part missionary controlled for a good portion of their modern history, a complete disaster?

More religion correlates to elevated, rape, murder, abortion, theft, and children had out of wedlock.

The earthquake in Haiti was not very big, but the missionaries chose to totally ignore international advice etc in building structures way back when (wooden houses make it through earthquakes way better than brick, wood was readily available there, it's not difficult).

A guest speaker who was a hydrologist before, during (he was in a boat during the quake), and after spoke of the US money that was being given to country before then was almost entirely faith based, and they felt it was more important to build churches instead of drill a well so people could drink clean water (Haiti had and may still have the worst water quality out of all of the countries in the world). Naturally most of the churches collapse because "jesus will protect it" didn't work. Then we have to hear about how "they didn't know it would happen" despite the fact that the country is on top of a monsterous fault.

Fun Links:
http://www.theawl.com/2011/01/our-gover ... arah-palin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01690.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02510.html

US Christian groups fund this. You have blood on your hands. Christians are solely responsible for the largest civil rights issue in the United States. YOUR religion denies people happiness and peace of mind. Your religion is why the gay teen suicide rate is increasing. All Christians do in response to this is change the subject or be like "oh that's catholics we're 99.999999% the same but totally different", which is a cowardly way to justify how you're "different" or "better" than those people. Only time I'll buy that argument is if it's the Westboro Baptist Church or a cult like the Unification Church.

Logic my ass. It's cowardice and hiding behind a book.

RAMONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

^That sounds much more like a result of stupidity and cultural insensitivity than Christianity itself. IE, the "this is the way we do things, so this is how you're going to do them" mentality where we push our ways of farming and building and whatnot on them. Plus the very unfortunate (which I am HIGHLY against) linking of American Christianity was big business and profiteering. As soon as money gets involved in missionary work, it's officially a lost cause.

It's probably useless for me to say this here since it's just being preachy on an internet forum, but I think Christianity as a faith seriously needs to go back to the Biblical advice of "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they can see your good works and glorify your Father who is in heaven." In other words, doing good things for people and using that as a way to show people God's love instead of just preaching.

Again, I say that there is something severely wrong going on in the faith when it's Christians who are the ones being criticized for being intolerant. Especially since we're supposed to be the ones demonstrating God's goodness through our un-natural love for others. That really makes me feel sad and sickened to hear so many people say that.

IMO, those who hate on gays and bomb abortion clinics don't deserve to be called Christians. They are just using Christianity as an excuse to support their hatred and bigotry.

[gouldy]

Originally posted by cjd

Are you suggesting that it is impossible for someone to be a Christian and a rational thinker at the same time?

Yes, that was entirely what I suggesting.

Rational thought and a belief in a deity are, by definition, polar opposites. So you cannot claim to be both. Well that's not strictly true, because you can claim to be both, only it would be under false pretense.

If you genuinely applied logical and rational thought to all parts of your life and way of living, you would no longer believe in a god, end of. Belief in a god is based in faith, faith is the enemy of reason.

Also, I am black, but at the same time white and I also really hate spicy curry, but seriously I really love spicy curry.

^So, hypothetically, even if the events of the entire Biblical story from Abraham to the apostle Paul was completely archaeologically verified, you would still say that it was not rational to believe in God?

wow never thought this topic would get this far

^As soon as I said the word "God," it was inevitable that all hell would break loose and it would quickly turn into a heated religious debate.

This site has a very long history of strong opinions on both sides... Atheist opinions from gouly, slosprint, and Coasterkidmwm, and Christian opinions from Tconwell, Real, and I.

[gouldy]

Originally posted by cjd

^So, hypothetically, even if the events of the entire Biblical story from Abraham to the apostle Paul was completely archaeologically verified, you would still say that it was not rational to believe in God?

If anything in the bible relating to when "God" directly intervenes with happenings on earth is physically provable in any way, be it with archaeological evidence or otherwise... then I will instantly convert to being Christian and all other future arguments will be null and void.

For example; archaeologically prove to me that an entire sea was parted so that people could simply walk through it.

Or; Bring evidence forward to suggest that Mary was anything other than a whore that simply lied to her ridiculously gullible other-half to cover up the fact that she'd cheated on him. Contraception was hardly what it is today.

Show me visual evidence that all of the contradictions in the bible (as visually represented by this .pdf - http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf), don't all add up to make the entire thing, complete and utter superstitious, scaremongering bullshit.

[jayman]

Originally posted by cjd

^So, hypothetically, even if the events of the entire Biblical story from Abraham to the apostle Paul was completely archaeologically verified, you would still say that it was not rational to believe in God?

they wont be. they haven't been,
seriously you think you are going to scientifically prove that paul ( saul at the time ) really actually had a vision on the road to damascus that told him to write "gods word" to churches all over the middle east? i know bible super well, and have always questioned it. paul was an apologist, who knows who Abraham was

jayman, no, I'm not suggesting that it will ever be. I was just asking a hypothetical question. Realistically, since we were not there to witness it, the best we can possibly hope to get are historical writings from the places that he visited and the people he met.


Gouldy, (this is not supposed to be a swaying argument, it is just to show that I do in fact think about these things.)

About Mary, it is said that Joseph really was about to leave Mary because he didn't believe her after her impregnation, presuming that she had been disloyal. It was only after an angel appeared to HIM that they stayed together. Thus it could not just have been Mary lying. They would have had to have both be lying, which makes a lot less sense than one person lying to preserve their status before their spouse. Plus the fact that this supposedly-illegitimate child born out of this "lie" just so happened to end up being the only person in human history to ever start a successful Messianic movement is an awfully big coincidence.

About the parting of the Red Sea, obviously this can't be directly proven, but there are some interesting discoveries like Egyptian chariot wheels at the bottom of the Gulf of Aquaba, an extension of the Red Sea, at one of the only cross-sea locations where the sea floor would be smooth enough to walk across if the water was removed.

And about the chart of contradictions, 80% of those are due to either bad readings or a lack of wisdom about what the verse is trying to convey in the first place (it even claims that some books are contradicting themselves within the same chapter, which is ridiculous,) and the other 20% are mostly finite technical details about numbers and sequencing and dimensions that honestly have nothing whatsoever to do with the point of the writing in the first place. Yes, this does challenge the uber-conservative view that God penned every single word of the Bible and that it is 100% perfect and without contradiction or error, but not what it says about itself, namely that all scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God and useful for doctrine and reproof. There are maybe 5 or so valid points that I myself do not understand, such as why Abraham was allowed to marry his half-sister, but I hardly see those as such big issues that they make the whole thing invalid.

Everyone has different opinions. Most likely you will not change others opinions. So you all should just give up.[:)]

Still, whether there is a god or not, religion should be kept away from governments at all times.

^ I agree, but it never will be that way unfortunately.

now we turn this into a religious discussion

[Coasterkidmwm]

CJD:
1. if those waters parted then the pelagic sediments would have been majorly disturbed, and they haven't been.
2. Also there is no major die off of marine life (this would be recorded, you don't "erase" reefs easily

Also wood floats, it probably reached saturation after floating around for awhile and then sunk later on. If the water did part and then rejoined itself, the turbulence would have relocated the wheels anyways.

You fail. Gouldy didn't even bring up Noah's Ark, because it's too easy.

LOL.
I read the title and was like... did someone actually do this? I will never in a million years spend any amount of my time reading any post in this thread, but I hope you enjoyed reading mine <3

I've deduced from my skimming on this page, however, that it took but 3 pages for this conversation to go from political to purely religious... bravo, people..

[gouldy]

[^]

It's a service we provide here, it really is.

Couldn't have said it better myself hahaha.

Please, O great mods, have mercy upon us mere mortal users and lock this religion thread.

I will include this parting shot: CKMWM, given the frequency with which you demonstrate to this site that you don't give a poop about anyone other than yourself, I hardly think your views on social safety nets are of any relevance to most people.