SFMM vs CP

I don't think I have ridden a cloned coaster and my home park (Kennywood) doesn't have any, but I think that who cares if the rides are cloned, for a moment I really didn't understand why rides were cloned and I have stated that I like Cedar Point and that SFMM has 2 clones, but that's not why I choose Cedar Point. the park is an all around huge gigantic playground, only with more mature rides. SFMM has a nice variety of rides, but really the only thing that I dislike about that park is, that You have to walk up/down the damn hill. And Cedar Point have some of the worst bathrooms I ever been in (found that out on memmorial day) but that doesn't make a park any less the fun, besides both parks hve a wonderful collection of 16 coasters each and are both in nice locations, so I'd Like to change my opinion-Cedar Point and SFMM to me are a TIE! and I know some of you will not agree, but get over it, it's my opinion!

[Master of Puppets]

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Coasters are cloned for a reason. They are good. People who enjoy them, why not make them more available? Not everyone can travel all over the place.[/qoute]

umm, just to let you know, there are a million Vekoma SLC's and Vekoma Boomerangs and they suck. So cloned coasters arent always the best.

A million eh? Probably not.

Just to let YOU know, that your opinion of a ride means jack when it comes to this. If the ride attracts ppl, then it's considered "good"

Last yr, the line for Deja Vu was one of the longest in the park. I'm sure if it, as you so nicely put it, "sucked" people wouldn't line up for it.

For the record, I didn't like Deja Vu, I would ride it again, but it certainly wasn't my favorite. I liked Raging Bull the most, and Batman: The Ride second. Batman is cloned everywhere, and I know why.

Plus I never said all cloned rides are good. I never specified, I just said "they are good" I didn't know you wanted to go in depth on the subject.

What attracts visitors, brings $, and that is what's considered "good". To the GP (general public) SLC's and Boomerangs may be good. To Coaster Fanatics, they aren't. Did you ever think of that? Plus these clones, most ppl who ride them, don't know the difference. You need to realize that the percentage of ppl who ride coasters think that "it's a rollercoaster" They don't give a flying **** who built it, who designed it, what color it is, what type of track is used, how high it is and so on. They think "that looks like fun" and climb on.

And those type of ppl are what bring in the $. Not what fanatics think.

[B)]

[Oscar]

@ mop setting the record straight

[Oscar]

fight! fight! fight!

I bet on MoP to win

MoP, Deja Vu was good in my opinion, I mean the SLC's and the non-inverted boomerangs.

Also, those rides do NOT attract guests very much. In SFDL, the coasters that attratct the most peeps are the custom ones, like viper, SROS( yes, it is cloned, but it was the first ever, so it isnt a clone), and Predator.

Boomerang, and Mind eraser(the two that I have mentioned) attract the people the LEAST.

Cloned coasters like these two styles are not put into the park to impress the guests. They are there to attract them to the park, but not to impress them. Therefore, custom coasters are better to have in a park than cloned coasters.

BTR is a clone because it is a very good ride, i know, as well as the other cloned coasters such as Medusa. But i was mentioning the two Vekoma styles, not those.

I'm an East-coast-er so I've never been to either. I'm goin' to CP this Summer in August. woooohoooo[:D]

CP set records for the tallest coaster the year that they were opened.

Gemini, 1979, worlds tallest coaster
Magnum XL-200, 1989, worlds tallest coaster
Millennuim Force, 2000, worlds tallest coaster
Top Thrill Dragster, 2003, Worlds tallest coaster

oh, and look at this, the winning point, WICKED TWISTER, THE FIRST INVERTED IMPULSE TO HAVE TWO VERTICAL TWISTING SPIKES

ok, wcd, your poor little SFMM was just beaten. HA!!

[Master of Puppets]

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

MoP, Deja Vu was good in my opinion, I mean the SLC's and the non-inverted boomerangs.

Also, those rides do NOT attract guests very much. In SFDL, the coasters that attratct the most peeps are the custom ones, like viper, SROS( yes, it is cloned, but it was the first ever, so it isnt a clone), and Predator.

Boomerang, and Mind eraser(the two that I have mentioned) attract the people the LEAST.

Cloned coasters like these two styles are not put into the park to impress the guests. [B}They are there to attract them to the park,[/B] but not to impress them. Therefore, custom coasters are better to have in a park than cloned coasters.

BTR is a clone because it is a very good ride, i know, as well as the other cloned coasters such as Medusa. But i was mentioning the two Vekoma styles, not those.

Read the bolded text, then stop making yourself look stupid.

So, you are saying if they put a clone of X in every six flags, then X would be a crappy ride because it's cloned? No. Batman has attracted many ppl to many parks, and it's a good ride. I never said every clone is a good one, but I said clones are good.

And once again, you are saying SLC's and boomerangs are crap. THINK BEYOND YOURSELF. Think of the general public, or read my last post.

To most people, every coaster looks like a bunch of twisted steel with ppl yelling on them. They don't care. But you have trouble understanding this. Now listen this time:

probably 75% or more ppl who visit a park aren't rollercoaster enthusiasts. They don't care. They look and they see a coaster. They don't see an SLC, they don't see a Boomerang, they don't see a B&M they don't know the difference between Vekoma and Arrow and B&M and Intamin. They don't know about clones, they don't know any of this stuff. They look at a book that says "six flags" and they think "rollercoasters" they don't think "I wonder if this park has Superman: Ultimate Flight"

THEY DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A CLONE OR NOT. Nor do they care. They ride it, then go home and brag to their friends "I rode on a rollercoaster" and their friends go "oOoOoOo" and it's done.

You need to stop thinking like an enthusiast and think like someone who doesn't research this stuff.

Anyway, your argument sucks. It makes no sense. Plus all I said was clones are good, I never said they were all good. I just said good cuz I didn't go in depth, but now you are forcing me to.

No, they aren't all good, but some custom coasters are awful. Some custom coasters are way worse than some cloned ones.

If they were to clone Millennium Force at SFMM, would that make it a crappy ride?

Like I said before, if you are gonna judge a park cuz of trim brakes or a few cloned coasters, you are a dumbass.

I don't know if there are any parks with nothing but cloned rides, but I don't think there are any. This provides ppl with some custom built ones for whiners like you, and some clones which are just as fun, cuz the general public doesn't know the difference anyway, and you end up with more rides to ride.

ok, i know the friggin non coaster enthusiast thing, but how do YOU know the lines at SFDL, its my homepark, i know. And you don't understand my point at all, I said the vekoma slcs and boomerangs were the ones that didnt attract the guests as much. I didnt say every ride was cloned is bad, can you read what i said at all about there are good clones that are NOT vekoma slcs and boomerangs? You are saying that MF and X and stuff i would think isbad, but I specifically said that ONLY slcs and boomerangs didnt attract a lot of guests, not other clones. So before you start repeating yourself for no reason at all, THINK!! You know what i said, and what i said was very clear. Therefore, the only person that is looking stupid is you.

Originally posted by wcd

Oh yeah
Revolution-First working loop
Colossus-Tallest Coaster
Riddlers Revenge-Tallest and Fastest Stand-up
Goliath-Tallest Coaster
Superman-Tallest Coaster
X-First and only 4th dimension
Flashback-One and only hairpin dive coaster

Hah lets see you little cp beat that[stoning]

Gemini, 1979, worlds tallest coaster
Magnum XL-200, 1989, worlds tallest coaster
Millennuim Force, 2000, worlds tallest coaster
Top Thrill Dragster, 2003, Worlds tallest coaster
Wicked Twister, First with two vertical twisting spikes
TTD-fastest coaster
MF-first and only giga coaster
TTD-first rocket/strata coaster into one

CP pulls to the lead again, bye SFMM!!

SFMM Basher! J/K

They are both good, im just saying that CP is better.

[Master of Puppets]

Originally posted by IntaminFan397

Coasters are cloned for a reason. They are good. People who enjoy them, why not make them more available? Not everyone can travel all over the place.[/qoute]

umm, just to let you know, there are a million Vekoma SLC's and Vekoma Boomerangs and they suck. So cloned coasters arent always the best.

This is what you said. Read what is bolded. You didn't say "only SLC's and Boomerangs". You said "So cloned coasters aren't always the best".

So your SLC and Boomerang example is taken as an example, such as my using other rides as an example.

I don't know how you got hung up on SFDL. I'm talking about all parks, you are comparing to 1. Look at a broader spectrum, no, you are focusing on 1 park.

When did I say anything about lines at SFDL? Also you DID say clones attract guests, now you say they don't so you are contradicting yourself. AGAIN.

You are calling me stupid? At least I stick to the same story all the time, not change it.

I mean, when you are arguing you shouldn't say things like:

Also, those rides do NOT attract guests very much

They are there to attract them to the park

then

specifically said that ONLY slcs and boomerangs didnt attract a lot of guests

Then right at the beginning you said and I quote

umm, just to let you know, there are a million Vekoma SLC's and Vekoma Boomerangs and they suck. So cloned coasters arent always the best.

Now you didn't specifically say SLC's and Boomerangs. You used them as an example yes, but you said "so cloned coasters aren't the best" you didn't say "so those specific ones suck and B&M clones are good".

The words "So cloned coasters" doesn't just mean SLC and Boomerang. It means cloned coasters in general, and since you used a new sentence, it means all cloned coasters, since that what it says, unless you aren't speaking the english language, which I believe we are. Cloned coasters, is ALL clones, Batman, Deja Vu, Raptor, Superman: Ultimate Flight.. You name it, it's a clone, it's included in "cloned coasters"

Calling me stupid? Maybe learn the language we are speaking before starting a stupid argument. Also, don't base it all on your "home" park. Look at a broader spectrum.

Another thing, get off your "CP has the tallest coaster" crap. Tall doesn't mean good, and both parks are good, neither is better so shut the hell up about that.

The End, come back with more, and I'll just make you look more like the dumbass you are.

Cheers M8

Yes, i did say that cloned coasers arent the best. Not the BEST, but not bad.

MoP, Deja Vu was good in my opinion, I mean the SLC's and the non-inverted boomerangs.

Also, those rides do NOT attract guests very much. In SFDL, the coasters that attratct the most peeps are the custom ones, like viper, SROS( yes, it is cloned, but it was the first ever, so it isnt a clone), and Predator.

Boomerang, and Mind eraser(the two that I have mentioned) attract the people the LEAST.

Cloned coasters like these two styles are not put into the park to impress the guests. They are there to attract them to the park, but not to impress them. Therefore, custom coasters are better to have in a park than cloned coasters.

BTR is a clone because it is a very good ride, i know, as well as the other cloned coasters such as Medusa. But i was mentioning the two Vekoma styles, not those.[/qoute]

see? I said it there. Can't you understand? and about what i said in those short quotes, was the coasters aren't made to attract the guests,custom coasters are made specifically to do that. I have no clue why you think that those are off topic.

Custom coasters attract guests more because look at MF or TTD, they attact a lot of guests even though most of the guests dont ven know what the hell they are.

And I used SFDL as one example. I dont just base it around one park, i was just using that as a simple example, and that park does count for profit, al of the parks do.

I was just using TTD taller as an example of height for showing the records that CP set. Not how good orbad it is, but i was simply listing the records.

thing, get off your "CP has the tallest coaster" crap. Tall doesn't mean good, and both parks are good, neither is better so shut the hell up about that.

When you say that neither of the parks are better, thats YOUR opinion. So dont say that your opinion is a fact because its not!!

So if you think that stock coasters are the best type of coaster ever, you can think that. But Custom coasters are the ones that attract theguests, which make a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, stock coasters are good for paying a cheap price, and making profit, but custom coastersmake MOREmoney than the clones. That was the orginal debate, about the money, and its easy to see how much the amazing custom coasters make.

k this didnt work outright, i said morestuff and that quote is messed up, i closed the quot before that. Wierd.

[Master of Puppets]

Originally posted by IntaminFan397



When you say that neither of the parks are better, thats YOUR opinion. So dont say that your opinion is a fact because its not!!

So if you think that stock coasters are the best type of coaster ever, you can think that. But Custom coasters are the ones that attract theguests, which make a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, stock coasters are good for paying a cheap price, and making profit, but custom coastersmake MOREmoney than the clones. That was the orginal debate, about the money, and its easy to see how much the amazing custom coasters make.

Ok, Prove that one park is better than the other, in something other than someone's opinion. Once you can do that, then start the lecture.

Also, point out where I say clones are the best coasters ever. I'd like to see that, underlined and bolded, because I never said that. There's your reading problem again.

As for amount of money and guests clones vs customs make, I'd like to see how you figure that. Use you brain for once. Do parks make all their money from enthusiasts that know the difference between clones and custom coasters. Or do they make their money from just having coasters, and having people come ride them?

Custom or clones don't attract ppl. The fact that they have coasters attracts people. Have you ever looked through a travel guide? This and other pamphlets and so on about parks is where most people get their info for parks. They hear about Six Flags Great America in an Illinois tourist info booth. They get an idea, let's check this out, so they ask for more info on the park. The person behind the counter says "it's a theme park with rollercoasters and other rides"

Does the guy say "well, it's got the first Batman, but the rest in all other parks are clones, it's also got a Deja Vu, built by Vekoma, which is also a clone, but it's got the first twister speed coaster ever by B&M, it's also got the first B&M coaster ever, being Iron Wolf"

No, he doesn't. He says "it has coasters" then he gives the tourist (potential guest) a tour book. The tourist, opens up the the book, and find Six Flags Great America. Starts reading. "This park opened at this date. It has 10 (or whatever) rollercoasters. It also features live shows, an Imax theater and great food"

This book makes no mention of custom vs clone, or anything else.

These are what make money, not the fact that Raging Bull is original and V2 or Deja Vu or Batman are clones.

Have you ever looked at a marketing book, or payed any attention to selling things? Or do you just want to believe you little "custom coasters attract more ppl" theory so bad that you are willing to throw every ounce of dignity you may have left at me only to have me crush it like I just did.

Before you come and make yourself look stupider. Go to some tourist places. Check tourist books, check all that stuff. Find out if it ever mentions which rides are clones and which rides aren't. I can almost 100% guarentee you it will never say.

It may mention "world's tallest" or "world's fastest" but does it ever say "there is one like this at this park" I very very highly doubt it.

And, these books, and tour guides send far more ppl to a park, resulting in the park making money, than the fact that a ride is custom or cloned.

One last example.

Six Flags Great America again.

Tons of ppl lined up to ride Superman Ultimate Flight. A cloned B&M Flyer. These ppl all paid $40 to get in. They are coming to ride the flyer. Why? Because it's shiny and new and has a cool seating position. Do these ppl care that there is one exactly the same in Georgia? Nope. They care that it's new. So they bring their wallets, and pay Six Flags to ride it. Do they care that Shockwave was torn down? Nope. They don't.

This is why parks build coasters. Clones or not, new stuff attracts, then ppl go "well as long as I'm here, I'll hit the other ones"

But sorry, they all came to see Iron Wolf because it's a custom coaster. I mean, those attract more ppl.

Damn, that marketing class did pay off after all.[8D][8D]

[Master of Puppets]

BTW I am just using SFGAm as an example, I could use almost any different park, but I chose this one.

I also know there are times when things are mentioned like something for Islands of Adventure might say "Only dueling inverted rollercoaster in the world" That would attract people.

Also something like "The Incredible Hulk is the only launched coaster of it's kind in the world" would sell ppl to go to that park also.

So I'm not saying original or custom coasters don't attract ppl at all, I'm just saying your theory of them making MORE money is bull. If Islands of Adventure bought a Batman clone, ppl would flock there to ride "the new rollercoaster" and they would get to ride the only launched B&M and the only dueling B&M as a bonus.

That is my afterthought.

Anyway, I think I have worn out my keyboard on this stupid subject. It's funny tho.

I think CP is running out of space to put coasters so they're adding short rides(lengthwise)[dunno]

[Master of Puppets]

SFMM is no better than CP, and CP is no better than SFMM.

They both have their little unique thing (X at SF, MF or TTD at CP) They each have records, and they each have lots of coasters.

Why you guys are fighting over which park is better is beyond me. I always figured they were both good.

Don't even get me started. CP does NOT "just care about being the tallest". The fact remains that CP still holds 3 of the top spots on the Golden Ticket Awards (Magnum X-L 200, Millennium Force, and Raptor), while SFMM just has Goliath. Oh, by the way... You missed several of CP's world-record-breaking rides. Here's the whole list.

1976: Corkscrew. [most inversions on a coaster (3), and first to have a corkscrew roll.]
1978: Gemini. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping coaster. (125ft, 60mph, 125ft.)]
1989: Magnum X-L 200 [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping coaster. (205ft, 72mph, 195ft.)]
1991: Mean Streak. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping wood coaster. (161ft, 65mph, 152ft.)]
1994: Raptor. [World's tallest, fastest, longest, longest dropping inverted coaster, most inversionson an inverted coaster, world's tallest inverted loop, first inverted dual cobra roll. (135ft, 55mph, 4500ft, 131ft, 6, 96ft.)]
1996: Mantis. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping Stand-up coaster.]
1998: Power Tower. [World's tallest vertical tower ride. (300ft)]
2000: Millennium Force. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping, highest banked coaster, world's first giga-coaster. (310ft, 93mph, 300ft, 122degrees.)]
2002: Wicked Twister. [World's tallest, fastest, longest inverted impulse coaster, only impulse with 2 spirals. (218ft, 73mph, 4500ft.)]
2003: Top Thrill Dragster. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping coaster. (420ft, 120mph, 420ft.)]
Cedar Point [most coasters at a park (16), most steel coasters at a park (14), most rides at a park (67), World's largest amusement park (364 acres), most times voted #1 park in the world (6), most roller coaster track at one park (uh, over 25,000ft), most steel roller coaster track at one park (uh, over 18,000 ft).]

Boo Yah! [:)]

It's about time Security got here.

I'm with WWS, MoP your avatar cracks me up every time I see it [dorkhat]

Originally posted by Master_of_Puppets

BTW I am just using SFGAm as an example, I could use almost any different park, but I chose this one.

I also know there are times when things are mentioned like something for Islands of Adventure might say "Only dueling inverted rollercoaster in the world" That would attract people.

Also something like "The Incredible Hulk is the only launched coaster of it's kind in the world" would sell ppl to go to that park also.

So I'm not saying original or custom coasters don't attract ppl at all, I'm just saying your theory of them making MORE money is bull. If Islands of Adventure bought a Batman clone, ppl would flock there to ride "the new rollercoaster" and they would get to ride the only launched B&M and the only dueling B&M as a bonus.

That is my afterthought.

Anyway, I think I have worn out my keyboard on this stupid subject. It's funny tho.

Yes, MoP, I understand what you are saying. But there are some points that you don't understand what I'm saying, like CP is better in my opinion, and you start saying that none is better. You can think that, there is nothing bad about that, but I can LIKE CP better. I'm not saying that CP IS better, im saying that IMO CP is better. Yes, i admit, I worded it incorrectly and I never said it was my opinion, but I never said that it was a fact, either.

The custom and stock coaster thing, I know most ppl don't know the difference between them, but look at TTD or MF. It is a coincidence that they attract more guests. Not because guests knew that they were custom, but it is just a coincidence. Yes. Stock coasters ARE good. I agree with that, too. In my first posts about this I should have pouinted out that I dont like stock slc's and boomerangs. Of course it is good to have in a park, cause the guests like them, but if you put another TTD or MF in the park, you will see that the stock slcs or boomerangs will not be nearly as popular.

So if you put a clone of an amazing custom coaster, and made it a clone, that wouldn'tmean it was bad. I am referring to the slcs and boomerangs, and not saying they are bad, just i dont like them, and they will attract guests until an impressive custom coaster comes to the park. NOT because it is custom, but because custom coasters are just more attractive in the park to guests than stock coasters, even though that they dont know the difference. Like I said before, its just a coincidence.

Originally posted by cjd

Don't even get me started. CP does NOT "just care about being the tallest". The fact remains that CP still holds 3 of the top spots on the Golden Ticket Awards (Magnum X-L 200, Millennium Force, and Raptor), while SFMM just has Goliath. Oh, by the way... You missed several of CP's world-record-breaking rides. Here's the whole list.

1976: Corkscrew. [most inversions on a coaster (3), and first to have a corkscrew roll.]
1978: Gemini. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping coaster. (125ft, 60mph, 125ft.)]
1989: Magnum X-L 200 [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping coaster. (205ft, 72mph, 195ft.)]
1991: Mean Streak. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping wood coaster. (161ft, 65mph, 152ft.)]
1994: Raptor. [World's tallest, fastest, longest, longest dropping inverted coaster, most inversionson an inverted coaster, world's tallest inverted loop, first inverted dual cobra roll. (135ft, 55mph, 4500ft, 131ft, 6, 96ft.)]
1996: Mantis. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping Stand-up coaster.]
1998: Power Tower. [World's tallest vertical tower ride. (300ft)]
2000: Millennium Force. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping, highest banked coaster, world's first giga-coaster. (310ft, 93mph, 300ft, 122degrees.)]
2002: Wicked Twister. [World's tallest, fastest, longest inverted impulse coaster, only impulse with 2 spirals. (218ft, 73mph, 4500ft.)]
2003: Top Thrill Dragster. [World's tallest, fastest, longest dropping coaster. (420ft, 120mph, 420ft.)]
Cedar Point [most coasters at a park (16), most steel coasters at a park (14), most rides at a park (67), World's largest amusement park (364 acres), most times voted #1 park in the world (6), most roller coaster track at one park (uh, over 25,000ft), most steel roller coaster track at one park (uh, over 18,000 ft).]

Boo Yah! [:)]

There you go wcd, cjd pointed out all the records that CP set, which is way more records than SFMM set. So there you go, which park has more records? CP. And remember, im not saying that its a better park, im saying that my opinion is its a better park.

[Kev]

Geez, you guys really get worked up over your theme parks, huh? To me, Cedar Point and Magic Mountain are like the Walmart and Kmart of theme parks. Personally, I've always preferred Target. [:P]