Intamin Blitz coaster

so i'm making a maverick-ish ride, however i dont have a beyond 90 degree drop on it and it has a 4 car train. I'm really trying to create a barrel-roll similar to what maverick once had, but i have no idea what the g forces need to be for such a roll. heres a pic of what i have so far, yes i know its completely wrong.



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i want it to look more like this

http://rcdb.com/3570.htm?p=19343


see how flat it is? mine looks too corkscrewish... any help would be great.
Just a quick observation, i believe my G's in the entrance and exit are way too high (3.5 g's). In the pic of mav's roll, it appears that the entrance and exits are flat indicating a force of possibly 1 g, or maybe even 0.5 g's. not sure. I'm more so concerned about the force change during the roll. i'm assuming i'll be using some sort of bump or plateau transition with a decrease in g force. (do they actually get airtime on a roll like this?)

I would say bump with negative 1 or more gs at the center. And a bump of lats on the way in and out at about 1 gs. Because remember that during a roll the only force acting on you is gravity, which is always 1 g. I kinda tried to do that on my coaster but wasnt wanting a total barrel roll, something a bit more like ispeeds was what i tried.

Yeah keep in mind that it's almost a flat roll (vertically). So, if you're going upside down in one direction, it will be -1G (or very close like -.9). Then, account for the lats if a bump to -1G doesn't do the trick. You may also have to timewarp your banking transition if 180 degrees isn't exactly at the point of -1G. Hope I was of assistance.

[yoshifreak]

Just whipped this up in a couple minutes. I can send you the newton file if you'd like. As a fair warning though, there are some intense laterals and negative verts when riding it. As far as getting it flatter, you could decrease the positives even more, or mess with the laterals in and out of the roll, but it's already intense enough. Considering you're trying to recreate a defunct element, it's going to be very hard to get something right while maintaining clean safe g-forces.

I made one similar to that on my last ride, but it had a bit more of a peak in the middle; really my heartline was almost flat, rather than having the roll be flat (my version was actually rideable, unlike Intamin's...lol). There should be laterals at the beginning and end, both pointing down, and intense negative vertical Gs in the middle. Hope it helps.

Um, Sandor Kernacs and one of the VP reps were the only two to ever ride it. I work with someone who was on the original crew and operated the ride (testing obviously) while it had the heartline roll. She said he came off and was very displeased with how it felt. So why try to recreate an obvious terrible element?

Because he can make tweaks to it like extending the roll time, raising the middle a bit to lower the negatives, or doing less of a constant roll rate to help with laterals. Without changes, I agree with you. It is a pretty awesome looking element, even if it didn't work out lol.

I wonder, would it have been ok with the new softer and more form fitting OTSRs featured on I305? Still wild I'm sure with the sudden and incredibly dynamic forces, but I highly doubt any of the forces alone would be a problem. I'm on the fence, but I'm leaning toward saying it wouldn't have been too much given how the current banking changes are ok with the harder restraints. Thoughts?

i am trying to achieve a ride-able version of this element. after dicking around with forces i was able to achieve what i wanted so thanks for all the help guys. My heart line was perfectly flat although the element was not. this is what i wanted. The g's were fine in all areas as well. one last question? what should be my positive g's while enterting and exiting the roll?

As I hinted in my last post, I don't think the individual forces were the problems. The issue was the combination of forces, plus how dynamic they are over such a small area. It's something where you almost have to guess whether it would work or not because there isn't much concrete information out there with which we can work.

well, first off, i lied. i'm totally redesigning this ride into a slightly smaller maverick clone type ride. i currently have a 97 degree drop pulling -1.3 g's in the back seat of a 3 car train. its looking good so far. the ride will probably end up being 95-100 feet. i want the layout to be much more dynamic then mav's though. more focus towards inversions rather than tight transitions (it will have those too, just not as frequently.)



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Pretty sexy if i must say so myself. took me a while to get the g's right. it crests over the top at 5 mph.

Layout...more dynamic than Maverick? Is that possible? lol...guess I'll have to wait and see.

But to be clear, you wanted a heartline roll, and not a barrel roll? Maverick's is a barrel roll.

barrel roll. just like mavericks, only doable. (to the point where it wont rip the wheel joints off the train and break riders necks)

I think the roll that they originally made on Maverick is something you definitely do not want to go for.

If you do want to create a roll which has hangtime you definitely need to take on board the suggestions that Dcs made above.

The drop looks good though.

^ basically i want a roll similar to mavericks that is actually safe and fun. It will all make sense when its done guys. dont worry.

Now, besides the roll, what are some suggestions for what i should incorporate in the layout? it will definitely have a second launch at some point so dont get ahead of me.

Do an intimidator transition thing.

The aforementioned "more dynamic layout" thus far...



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This is completely subject to change so tell me what you like and dont like. (the drop isn't changing because its flawless as of right now.)

Man I gotta learn how to Newton me up one o' them fancy drop doohickeys ya got there.

But actually giving input to the ride...

I like the second picture and how you can see like 750-1,000 feet of track right before you ride it. And I'm a little concerned about the roll/corkscrew. It seems like it would be too snappy to ride, but I suppose you wouldn't have built it if it wasn't ride-able.

its honestly not a bit snappy. its most easily compared to a slightly faster and lower to the ground version of mavericks horseshoe roll. it peaks at zero g's and the roll, although fast, has safe g's and a gradual rolling transition.

I just made the assumption that it was TOO quick, but fast is what I like to see, especially coming out of a ride made similar to Mav. I suddenly have the urge to open up Newton and figure out how the f*ck you made that damn drop!

haha. curved geometry bud. its a bit tricky and it would take some time to explain, but curved geometry segments is all you need.

mmkay, here you go.

First a Pretip,

-i'm using 8.941 m/s for the launch speed, and you want to turn 'auto' speed on after the launch.

so here is the curved geometry section.



and here is the multi force section.

(And now, since i have shown you how to create a maverick style drop, go, make maverick copies and flood the exchange with your nooby tracks!)

[}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

^ thats not how i made my drop. my crest and basically the entire drop is curved geometry. then i just calculated the speed by riding in the simulator and plugged that in.

(plus ride warrior, your radius looks way to big. i'd be willing to bet the back seat pulls way to many g's over the crest. my train crests over the top at 8 mph, and the back seat only briefly clips -1.3.) the radius has to be very small at the top and then increase as it exits (such as a curved section with a radius of about 7.2, and a large lead-out)

lol, nope. mine gets -1.3 gz too. i dont really care. it was the idea of the deop
/made in 5 minutes

I'm honestly surprised it wouldn't have been easier to use Multi-zone force segments for your drop. Oh well, as long as it rides good, I really couldn't give two shits how it was made