Scenery Issues

Hey everyone,

I'm nearing completion of a long overdue project, and the most significant things holding me back from release are a couple little issues with the scenery I exported from SketchUp. Basically I have two problems...one of which I'm sure is familiar to anyone who has used SketchUp for No Limits coasters, and that's the black shadowed faces.

The other problem is that, for whatever reason, some faces have shown up on my scenery in NL that were not in the SketchUp file. I've looked through my SketchUp scene, and I can't find them anywhere, not even hidden (which shouldn't export anyways). Judging by the fact that these black faces (in the form of three long, black rectangles...two parallel to the lift track and one going through the ground and intersecting with my trench) are shown in the NL editor, I'm thinking they can be easily deleted in 3dsMax, probably by the same person who fixes the black face issue.

Even though it's not a brand new track, I'm really happy with the overall experience between the track layout and a few unique ideas therein, the scene being pretty realistic, and the environment really pulling it together. I just have to, you know, release it so others can see lol. I'd just like some help with those two issues. I'll put up a picture of my random rectangle issue tonight after I get home from my baseball game. Thanks guys...let me know if you have the experience necessary to be able to fix the shadows and delete those faces for me, and I'll get the files you need to you likely within a week or so.

On another note, anyone ever have issues with NL crashing when trying to edit things with a large 3ds file in place? Like 9/10x when I try to move a tree or highlight the scenery, it's crashed on me. Weird because it works fine the one time. Makes finishing up really quite a pain lol.

Thanks again,

-DC

[GavG]

The black faces and NL crashing I can't help you with but I can have a look at the 3ds file in max for the extra faces for you.

OK cool, thanks. If nobody replies saying they can help with both, I'll send the file to you once I get the revised version exported.

Here's an example of the random black faces. You can see them alongside the lift. GavG did say he can try to take out the random faces, so I'm still wondering if anyone can do both that and fix the black shadows from the SketchUp export. I think it would be easier that way, rather than passing the large scenery file around. Please let me know, as it's almost done, but I won't be able to release without those problems fixed.

OH this is from the random edges that you dont delete, when you export go to options and there is a check box about exporting stand alone edges, you have to uncheck that!

I was thinking that...I wasn't the one who exported, but I made sure I turned it off for Cypher since I exported that on a school computer a while back. Only thing is those faces are much larger than the little lines I'd expect from stand alone edges. You still think that's the cause despite the size?

Yep some weird stuff has happened with those lines. They make faces that range in thickness.

OK. Well either way I asked the person exporting for me to make sure to uncheck that box, just in case. Thanks.

NP no use keeping my wisdom to myself. For that would not be wise.

Good and bad news. Good news is someone exported the files from SketchUp again for me, and those random black rectangles went away when he turned off the "export standalone lines" setting. Thanks for that suggestion Kyle. Also good is almost all of the changes I made since the last export worked perfectly.

Bad news is, for whatever reason, my FPS die when the train is travelling in a certain direction...basically if the layout is to be simplified and called an out and back, everything facing backwards is taken at 2-3FPS. That's weird, because my old file, with probably 1.75x the faces (I just exported it all using double sided faces, to save time), and lots of crazy large texture files (some up to around 8000x6000) runs just fine for the most part, minus some slowdown for a second when everything comes into view. Since that file I reduced texture sizes dramatically, taking the total size down from somewhere around 80mb to 20mb. I also made sure each of the texture dimensions were a multiple of 2^x - 128x256, or 512x512 for example - as suggested by Buster a while ago. In that old file, I had a stupid large png ground texture that I removed in favor of a few, much smaller textures scattered around the scene.

Those were all changes I made to improve what was already decent. However, I tested after fixing the texture sizes, and the FPS died on the way back toward the station, so the changes I attempted are as follows:

I changed the water reflection from 50% to 60% and back down to 45%, and it didn't really make a big difference. I removed all the water under my scenery, again no changes. Reduced the png texture sizes further, same result.

I gave up at that point last night. Anyone have any thoughts as to why my FPS are terrible at times now, when I reduced texture sizes around 75% and number of polygons 50%, reduced reflections and the amount of water? There's even a final ~30,000 polygon object that I have yet to insert that ran fine in the old file.

UPDATE: It seems the problem lies with the textures. I tried using the old, larger textures, and it runs fine with that hint of slowdown when everything comes into view. Weird, because I just checked there are 62mb worth of textures now with the larger texture files, and as I said I had taken it down 24, and everything was the ratio Buster suggested that had worked for me. Still have a problem because though the ride runs relatively smoothly, the filesize will be like 70mb, which is too big for the site...plus nobody wants to download that huge a file unless completely necessary. My plan of attack is to shrink textures in groups of say 5, then check in the editor. If the FPS drop off significantly after I change a group, that one will likely be the problem group. Annoying, but hopefully effective.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Update 2: I tried shrinking all the textures without changing the size ratios, and got the same results of about 2 fps for half the ride. It's starting to look like I won't be able to improve the file size, but I'll try what I said earlier next. Doubting it'll work at this point...no clue what the problem is. Frustrating.

Update 3: I reduced texture sizes to a minimum of 512^2, and that worked better than reducing them as far as I could without losing too much quality. The result was a ride where FPS were about on par with the test with full sized textures...only a bit more slowdown when everything comes into view. Unfortunately that may not be consistent, as during 1 of the 3 tests, my fps died on the last 1/3 of the ride. Two people tested for me: fps were decent for one of them (on a version where they were bad for me) and bad for someone else (on a version where they were pretty good for me). I think I give up for the next week or so, because it's still pretty frustrating...if I were to upload as is, it seems some people would get decent fps, and those who don't both won't get the experience I'd like to give, and many will likely take it out on my score. "This ride goes too slow at times: -2 Adrenaline"..."you didn't optimize your 3ds: -1 Technical" are not things I want to hear when I spent so much time on something. I know I can make a video with a perfect framerate, but it's not the same and I'm sure I will still get rated lower based on the No Limits experience.

thanks for useful information

Hey just wanted to give you all a little update. I started messing around with 3ds Max and found out that the 2012 version lets you import SketchUp files. That worked fine, except textures didn't show in Max's editor. I tried to render the scene to see what would happen, and it told me I was missing texture files. So I took the textures that were exported from SketchUp and put them in the Map folder, and the render worked fine. I then tried exporting the file, and if I kept it in my documents folder, textures didn't load in No Limits, however the issue with black shadows was gone. When I put it in the objects folder along with the previously exported textures, everything showed up like it was supposed to. Bad news is the framerate in the scene was just as bad as it was when I exported from SketchUp. It's weird though, because sometimes when I look in a certain direction I get 5fps, then maybe a few seconds later I'll get 60...other times I'll get 60 all the time except for some studdering...and then other times it'll stay at 5fps for 20 seconds straight or until I look away. Seems the biggest problem is around the station, but there doesn't seem to be any one object or grouping of objects that consistently slows things down. I also don't think my station area is all that complex with texturing or polygons.

I did see something like 14,000 subobjects (?) when loading textures as I tried to render the version that was exported from SketchUp, but I hoped those would go away and speed things up with a Max export. I'm guessing those subobjects were where my textures were divided up over different polygons, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I didn't check to see if the version that was imported directly from SketchUp had those subobjects, but I will tonight. I'm guessing it did, because as I said the framerate was just as bad. Anyone with some experience in Max have some thoughts?

Considering my inexperience with Max, I also may need some help making the lighting on my object match the environment...I didn't have time to try it in the right environment, but I expect it'll be a little bright. If anyone is good with Max and is willing to help out a bit, not necessarily do it for me, please let me know in a reply here or a whisper. And if you're good and you want to try yourself, again let me know and you're more than welcome to lol. I think at this point I've fought enough myself to be able to ask for more help without feeling too bad lol.

Thanks again.