Project Katun [Uploaded]

[hyyyper]

When I work in No Limits, my favourite type is the B&M Invert. This is also reflected in my top-10 steel, from which half is a B&M invert.

Anyways, after my vacation to Italy (trip report will follow soon) I have appreciated Katun even more as one of the best roller coasters in the world.

And since I was out of inspiration as well, I thought it would be a nice challenge to recreate the thing.





At this point the layout is as good as done, though some areas need tweaking.

Looks good...except for those God-awful supports but I know they're just to give that feeling of the track being grounded in some way. I have that same feeling with my rides lol. Got any up-close shots of it?

Zero G looks too elongated, Wingover look like the radius on them is too large and doesnt have the flat spot at the top. Whats your total length like?

The B&M trains track nearly perfectly to real life. I have a Talon recreation sitting around thats accurate to 1' (with 1 minor inaccuracy in the flat turn above the station) but other than that, the G's seem to match up perfectly and the pacing is spot on.

So what Im getting at is, yours should be as close to exact as possible!

So you going to upload this 'perfect' Talon recreation there Real?

To the topic at hand though, I have to say I am excited to see this. Haven't seen a good recreation of this yet, and I have confidence in you. I have to agree though, the zero-g looks a bit off. Like it rises up, flattens, spins, then goes down again. I'd like to see better angle of (well most of the ride) the flat spins. They look off as well, but very well could be the angle more than anything.

And those supports... Did you even try to make them look right? ;)

Cheers mate. Good work so far.

Iron Man - if someone wants to photograph the entire area around it, get me a topo map and basically does the 3ds. I just don't have it in me anymore to do that stuff. Didn't say it was perfect I was just eluding to the fact that getting track length (on a B&M) along with the other key heights close to actual will make it track like real life too. My Hydra recreation was within a foot or 2 and it had timing and tracking pretty dang close to the real thing.

Testament to Ole's physics.

[hyyyper]

Hey guys, thanks for the comments. The supports were just to give a better feel for the ride, they will be replace with custom supports once I got the layout and shaping down.

Lengthwise, I'm at 1225 meters while the actual ride is 1200. But I'm working on getting it fixed.

The zero-G is pretty long in real life as well,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ANDIA-.JPG

As for the corkscrews, I'm not sure if I got them right, they look like corkscrews, but I'd love some feedback on them.

Here are some shots of the ride:

No, I think that's a terrible picture of Katun's zero g to go from. I'm trying to find better ones right now



The difference with yours is the length of track between ascending and descending is too great, stretching it out.



Theres also the fact that the spine appears to be flat at the apex of the hill. This means your parabola is off. Trying to quickly replicate it...


Id need shots of Katuns wingovers looking at them from front of back, not the side. That way I can see how the apex is shaped. Most (except one that I know of) wingovers, due to the heartline, the spine flattens at the apex (top)

[hyyyper]

It's hard to find good pics of the Zero-G-roll, the ones you posted are at an angle, and I can't seem to find anything with the Zero-G roll exactly from the side.

Could I use the ties as a reference, do you know if the spacing is the same in NoLimits as it is in real life?

As for the wingovers/flatspins, I came across this pic that might come in handy:




EDIT: Mine currently looks like this:




So....looks like I've still got some work to do [:)]

The angles I posted are ok if you understand how to decipher them. See, yours dont have that flat angle of attack. And the actual roll itself looks too long.

Im having a brain fart trying to describe what to do though. argh.

It looks to me like the main problem with the zero g roll is that the entrance/exit is too steep, meaning you had to elongate the top to make the element fit the rest of the layout.

I wouldn't trust ties too much. Sometimes they're affected by where you have your segments. Might be useful to see if you're getting close, but I doubt they'll be exactly the same.

[hyyyper]

I wish it was so simple. The zero-g is taken so fast that making it shorter on top would probably increase the rotational forces. I will give it a shot though.

The zero g roll is very close, but the wingover looks off. My advice is to save a backup track before playing around with the shaping, or a backup element..... That's what I usually do.

EDIT: after a closer look, try lowering the middle part of the wingover.

Originally posted by hyyyper

I wish it was so simple. The zero-g is taken so fast that making it shorter on top would probably increase the rotational forces. I will give it a shot though.

If its heartlined around a true parabola rotational forces shouldn't be too great. At the moment you're probably seeing extra lats that are caused by a heartline that doesn't quite experience zero g even if it was unbanked.

Originally posted by hyyyper

The zero-g is taken so fast that making it shorter on top would probably increase the rotational forces.

Tight B&M Inverted Zero G rolls always have high rotational forces.

[hyyyper]

Originally posted by Wing-Over

Originally posted by hyyyper

I wish it was so simple. The zero-g is taken so fast that making it shorter on top would probably increase the rotational forces. I will give it a shot though.

If its heartlined around a true parabola rotational forces shouldn't be too great. At the moment you're probably seeing extra lats that are caused by a heartline that doesn't quite experience zero g even if it was unbanked.

It is heartlined. The method I used to create it was to first make a hill that had a long time of zero-G at the top. Then I marked the heartline with supports. After that, I applied the banking and moved the track to the heartline would match the heartline of the zero-G hill.

But like I said, I'll give it a try.

[hyyyper]

So, here an onride I took compared to Robb Alvey's POV.

I'm sorry the clip isn't detailed or top quality, but you can see it's pretty well synced.


[youtube]PCggDBEcDJU[/youtube]

Yea, you can see it there with the Zero G.

The real ride levels out sooner and at less of an angle and it exits a lot flatter too. Some elements look spot on, others, off. And timing as a result is off.

Zero G is still the biggest part IMO thats off. The angle entering and exiting is much steeper in yours than it should be. Thats whats producing that weird look I was trying to explain earlier.


Youre on the right path for sure. Not a total overhaul but still a lot of work. Keep at it, no ones really done a really good Katun.

[hyyyper]

Well, time to start on the scenery then

Looks like the pull up that goes into the zero-g is to steep.

The trackwork looks pretty bad... while it's synced up for the first half (if it slows down compared to the actual, then speeds up, the scaling is off). You need more of a snap with your wingovers, they ride like the pre-fab you insert from the game. The zero g roll is fairly off too, listen to the advice that Real is providing. I wouldn't start on the scenery quite yet, and try perfecting the track. Maybe try giving Newton a go, you'll never know.

Awww, it's just awful. [:(] Katun looks awesome too Hyyypskees. You should give it a few full-on attempts.

[hyyyper]

The track was worked on after the comments on the video, and after that I have stopped working on it because basically, this is as good as it gets for me. I could try and improve it to make it glass-smooth or synced up perfectly. But that is something I do not like to do and it would also cost me a lot of time for just a tiny bit of improvement.
I am no NL-pro, but even though the track isn't perfect, it is my smoothest ride yet, so I am pretty happy with it.

[hyyyper]

This might be the last update in a while. School is starting tomorrow, so I will have less time to work on this.

So, at this point the track and 3d-objects are done. I still need to touch up some supports and add flanges.
After that, it's adding some trees and a cartexture and it'll be finished.

Wow! Nice work!

Paths and station area look great, but you really need to turn down the repeats on the grass and make it a bit darker, it looks way too bright against the track.