Magnum/Titan V/ Desperado inspired hyper

I think i started an arrow hyper as a side project. I have been experimenting with arrow shaping, and the only way i found i could accurately recreate the awkward shaping on arrow coasters realistically and smoothly was with multi zone force in newton and ahg for slight heartline and rotation smoothing.. I had attempted before to used geometry, and it turned out like sh!t. This flows very realistically so far.

You know your drop looks like that of a Morgan hyper, right? The Arrows you mentioned don't have a flat section like that at the top. It's not wrong, I'm just wondering your motivation.

Keep in mind it's not slight heartlining, it's rotating around one of the rails.

To add to what dcs said, I think that momentary straight pre-drop section looks like it's not steep enough anyway.
I only said this because the drop would probably be the easiest thing to alter- if you had to alter something with this design.

And for my own comment- it's impossible not to be excited for a Kyle Sloane design. If you need help with anything, don't be afraid to ask. I look forward to riding it because I know it will be satisfactory. I absolutely love the use of straight-to-turning slope changes in the layout.

Ill change the drop, and arrows are slightly heartlined. Plus their transitions tend to be inconsistent and differently shaped. There is no standard transition.

They have some transitions that are different from others. I find shaping on each arrow coaster that is on no other arrow. Even just little things. Their later gen coasters had some really twisty track anyways. More to come.

I am super excited about this project. I love arrow coasters and arrow hypers. This is looking great so far! I also think the drop could be fixed a little. The shape of the drop is perfect, just get rid of the straight section at the top. Keep the updates coming!

thannks for your support guys. Ill make sure to. Another update by tommorrow afternoon probs.

I really love these transitions. They're just so painfully fun!

[Coasterkidmwm]

Except the difference between you and Arrow is that Arrow made the transitions out of ignorance whereas you're going out of your way to make them bad instead of making something work in the situational area.

And pulling rides from different decades (late 70's to early 90's) is a pretty manipulative data collection method when that isn't the point of what you're trying to accomplish, so I don't really think that you can have an "inconsistent shaping" argument of any quality (add in velocity in those areas and you lose harder) unless you want to go with the jesus thumper "if I scream it enough it will be true" philosophy but whatever.

I know the above was pretty negative but I think it looks like a neat ride so far so keep it up.

Yeah i agree ckidd, forget that. My point is that my transitions/shapings are not far fetched. I do find it funny how difficult it is to create what arrow did, out of ignorance, on purpose. Moving on.

[Coasterkidmwm]

They're entirely far fetched and taking the easy way out.

How is using multi zone force instead of straight geometry for a straight transition taking the easy way out? And what about them are far fetched? Actually explaining yourself would help your case here a bit ckidd.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Ckidd hasn't posted in this thread.

picky

Arrows are not heartlined (besides Tenn Tornado/X/etc). The shaping comes from using manual benders (not CNC) and the way the track sections were assembled. They generally banked around the inner rail, for example that rail would stay level and turn and the spine and outter rail were built around that. It varies, I think the turns off the lift on the corkscrews were banked around the spine but I can't remember. But in any case the banking was not done around the train/rider at all and is different from NL's banking making it one of the hardest types to accurately replicate.

^^^*coasterkid.

^Then explain the shaping on lochness monsters transition. You have to remember that by slight heartlining i mean having 0 heartline when building in newton, and .2 from ahg. Im not making intamin style transitions. Where did you get that info anyways?



From all the arrows i have ridden. The track rotated in a way that one rail went up almost vertically, and the bottom rail goes in horizontally. That is what i was trying to accomplish by slightly heartlining it. That way on a right transition for example, the right rail would not drop downwards, and the left rail would move upwards. Their transition styles are technically heartlined. Its not noticable when its a long transition. But look at the picture of locheness monster and the transition on the way into the first drop of the video to see kind of what i mean. I have tried for a long time to recreate that, and i found the only way to do it and make it feel realistic and not forced was the way i am doing it now with multizone force and ahg. Please just wait for the final product before you assume that im just making a straight geometry with a linear transition for banking on every transition.

Oh and heres my point with irregular transitions-



They dont build every transition exactly the same. That is why i cant use linear geometry for a transition.

Your video and both your pictures prove my point. The initial and later turns bank around the inner rail and the faster middle sections of the ride are banked around the outter rail. The Loch Ness pic is banked around the inner rail.

I've learned from years of reading and studying how rides are built more than actually having fun on them. I couldn't give you an exact link to a post as or article that explains their shaping as it was probably something from 1997 on RRC, but that's how it was done. NL banks around the heartline making it very difficult to accurately recreate. Your pics are close but not 100% (but I have never seen an Arrow done correctly in 7ish years of NoLimits).

Look from a side view:

Yes it does bank around the inner rail. However, the inner rail does not go in a straight line, it moves inwards slightly along a horizontal plane in order to compensate for the rail moving upwards.



The red shows the inner rail, and how it moves in, and the purple the outer rail, and how it moves up. both lines are straight lines. It does the exact same thing on the dragon. There are some cases where only the outside rail moves to bank it, but the standard arrow transition depicted above technically has a form of heartlining, most likely accidentally. But this is not ALWAYS the case. So nobody is really wrong or right here. All in favor say aye!

^^Good example. That will help with shaping later on.

In Jonny's pic the inner rail is perfectly level through the bank. In both LNM pics there are angles in play throwing you off. The first pic blends in with the catwalk and when the catwalk starts to veer the cross ties are banking giving the illusion that the rail kicks in, but it doesn't. This most recent pic is impossible to tell from the angle (if anything it looks straight to me). The only thing I can see here that might give the illusion of the rail kicking in is again, the cross ties start to bank.

And none of this is a form of heartlining. Think about what heartlining actually means. You are curving the track around the centerline of where a person of average height's heart would be (vertically) in the train. The only time Arrow did this with the exception of the later rides I mentioned was on the pipeline prototype with in-line seating (and I'm not even sure that was curved around the rider, but rather a bit lower). For all 'standard' Arrow rides they are banking the track around one of the three rails. The deviation you are seeing comes from changing which rail is the one being banked around.

Does anyone else notice the rail moving inwards? If the outside rail is moving up, the only way the inside rail can move to stay the same distance from the outside rail is in. it makes perfect sense, and im not imagining things. I drew those straight extended lines to show that the inside rail curves in.

Another example.



Seriously speak up everyone else who thinks im making a valid point and not out of my mind.

yep