OBAMA SUPPORTS GAY MARRIAGE

[gouldy]

Originally posted by TConwell

Heh ... nice to see nothing has changed here (even after being absent for over a year). Same old rhetoric-spewing from the bullies, same people circle-jerking one another, same old flame-wars that go nowhere. Piff.

I often find that it's a typical theist response, when a retort cannot be thought of, to just insult everyone.

You say "flame-wars that go nowhere", simply because no ends up agreeing with you, that doesn't mean a discussion has gone no where, that doesn't mean that no one else learnt anything.

What did you expect, you could just express a ridiculous and out-dated opinion and everyone would just agree with you? This seems like the only criteria under which you'd consider the discussion to have gone somewhere. Something to remember for the future, maybe; when you express abhorrent opinions in a public forum, expect people to criticise you. This isn't the closed network or "circle-jerk" (as you'd call it) that you enjoy on your Facebook wall.

I'm still not sure how anyone was offended by original comment in this thread that required me to retort anything, Dan. I merely stated my opinion (which differs from yours but it is still mine to have) and that I disagreed with gay marriage and was told:

"I feel sorry that your blind faith makes you appear the dimmest lightbulb on this site. Honestly, your faith is a joke and your personal accountability regarding morality is misguided at best."

"Tconwell won't learn anything."

"You are the bully for thinking that your religion entitles you to think everyone needs to live by it as well."

This one is my favorite though:

"In accordance to history, your generation has been nothing but segregation this, discriminate that, be offended by this, be a disbeliever in that... and when you're all gone, this world will be a better place, unfortunate enough as it is"

"Your generation" How old do you think I am?

The assumptions though about my intelligence are particularly outstanding, especially since I possess a double Master's degree, one in Theology and the other in Information Systems. Humorous though is how an opinion that differs from your own view draws such hatred and vile responses ... Anyhow ...

Live your life as you choose, it has always been your decision and that my friends, is what I've learned in the last two years (primarily thanks to personal attacks like this). So, what has changed here? I'll leave this discussion with that challenge to you all.

A Master's in Theology? Yeah, because that has use in the world. That's like boasting you have a Master's in History or Women's Studies. You want to boast "intelligence", try going for a degree that involves more than just toting a bible around.

Your opinion affects the lives of millions of Americans. That's why we hate it. We hate that your belief constitutes that two members of the same gender are unable to share a happy life as a married couple. We hate that you think you have the right to tell a woman that she has zero say over her pregnancy and body. Why don't you just vote yes to same-*** marriage and abortions for women? Your life won't be affected ANY way whatsoever by that. However, you voting against same-*** marriage and abortion WILL affect how millions of Americans live their life.

We hate you for that reason.

I don't think people are getting the point here. Obama is doing the same thing as last time by sucking up to voters. Obama made over 500 promises in his first election. More than twice what Bush and Bill clinton said. The guy is a door to door salesman saying what he has to to get reelected. his plan is to destroy America.

I don't think people are getting the point here. Obama is doing the same thing as last time by sucking up to voters. Obama made over 500 promises in his first election. More than twice what Bush and Bill clinton said. The guy is a door to door salesman saying what he has to to get reelected. his plan is to destroy America.

Originally posted by allen

I don't think people are getting the point here. Obama is doing the same thing as last time by sucking up to voters. Obama made over 500 promises in his first election. More than twice what Bush and Bill clinton said. The guy is a door to door salesman saying what he has to to get reelected. his plan is to destroy America.

Obama wants to destroy America?

Why would any American citizen, born in America, want to do that? Turn off the Fox News Channel and start looking at real politics. Obama or not, your senseless attacks go nowhere.

Originally posted by rcking04

We hate you for that reason.

I am sorry that you hate me, especially since I don't think I've ever said I hate you (or anyone else here and I've been a member here FAR longer than you). Must be a terrible burden to carry around all that hate; especially since you've never met me. Let it go man, it won't do anything but eat you alive.

Originally posted by rcking04

A Master's in Theology? Yeah, because that has use in the world. That's like boasting you have a Master's in History or Women's Studies. You want to boast "intelligence", try going for a degree that involves more than just toting a bible around.

I did, hence the Master's in Information Systems. So, that is a double Master's I've completed, and I'm the one you call stupid?

I love how you decide not to comment on the bulk of my post and rather the ends of it. All that shows is that you're unable and unwilling to offer an intellectual rebuttal. And yes, I hate religion. I hate how religion clouds judgment, and I hate people who think religion should dictate everyone's life.

i love how the de facto bad guy in this thread is a military daddy

Originally posted by TConwell


"Your generation" How old do you think I am?

The point is that you and the included generation were not raised to understand all humans and their differences.

You [in particular] were raised to believe one set of beliefs and to live your life in strict dictation of these beliefs and to discard or ignore any conflict of these beliefs that were to arise in your life- like this topic- and that, TJ, is why you should feel free to disappear again [;)]

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by rcking04

You want to boast "intelligence", try going for a degree that involves more than just toting a bible around.

Does Mr. No-Bachelors have any other rank to pull?

Originally posted by rcking04
We hate that you think you have the right to tell a woman that she has zero say over her pregnancy and body.

Pretty sure he didn't say anything about women, so now you're inventing data and using it against him.

**puts on sunglasses**

Based on the above, you're a bad scientist

Originally posted by TConwell

However, no matter the political party I will never vote for anyone who is pro abortion and for gay marriage - morality matters.

Mm, you and TConwell have something in in common! You both say something against actually researching something.

Also, I'm not in college to become a scientist. I'm in it to become an engineer. Difference.
Now, go back to playing with rocks. At least you can always be right when you talk to them since they're at the right intelligence you like your peers to be at.

/me wins again

Tally:
rcking04 - 9.42E10
CoasterKidMWM - derp

inb4 fatty comment

-edit-
Just stumbled upon this:

[jayman]

as far as i can see in this thread NOBODY has expressed ANY hatred towards gay people. however, hatred towards christians seems to be the theme of every other post..

[Coasterkidmwm]

You're feisty today.

Originally posted by rcking
Mm, you and TConwell have something in in common! You both say something against actually researching something.

His women related comment is loaded with technicalities and exceptions. That is a battle that cannot be won unless he clarifies. Personally I don't think more aerosol cans on the fire will really help at this point.

Originally posted by Rcking
Also, I'm not in college to become a scientist. I'm in it to become an engineer. Difference.

From wikipedia:
An engineer is a professional practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical problems.
You haven't been applying well. Good luck.

Originally posted by Rcking
Now, go back to playing with rocks. At least you can always be right when you talk to them since they're at the right intelligence you like your peers to be at.

It would have been easier to call me "dumb as a rock" instead of using two lines.

Originally posted by Rcking
/me wins again
Tally:
rcking04 - 9.42E10
CoasterKidMWM - derp

inb4 fatty comment

-edit-
Just stumbled upon this:

Did you stumble because you were out of breath at the top of three flights of stairs?

Huh... Your post lacked interest. I was quite disappointed. Just like your parents with you!

BUHHHH-ZING!

[gouldy]

Originally posted by jayman

as far as i can see in this thread NOBODY has expressed ANY hatred towards gay people. however, hatred towards christians seems to be the theme of every other post..

When this particular Christian view is "other Humans don't deserve the same Human rights as I do", how/why would you expect anything but hatred for Christians? This is one reason why Christianity is dying out, it has no capacity for change. As we're able to use reason to talk through and discuss important issues, so has our understanding of the world and the people in it, increased. Meanwhile in Chrisitanity land; gays are for some reason considered lesser Human beings and women have no control over their own bodies, because abortion is murder even though we're able to see that during the period of legal abortion, the collection of cells in the womb is demonstrably not a child.


The problem is, it's not just TJ that holds these views, in the US especially, his view is shared by a lot of people - and it's unbelievable given the amount of understanding we have available, that there is still such horrendous ignorance. What's worse is that people who share his views are able to get into office - dangerous, very dangerous.

^I love you, I could actually cry.

Okay. Way far up there abortion was mentioned. Now I am not Catholic or any other branch of Christianity, in fact I am Jewish. I believe in the legal unions as why should homo***uals suffer. It is not like they chose to be gay. It is only right to allow them to embrace what they have been given. As for abortions however that is immoral ad it is a form of murder and frankly it is disgusting. If you know how the procedure is performed you would want to puke. Also think about it this way, what if thanks to an abortion you weren't here to right these post...hmm. And to end my post on a little side note. Obama is an evil socialist. He does want to destroy America. The citizens were just such blind sheep that they elected him. I mean socialized medicine come on really! That's moving toward communism. The government can't tell me what to buy!

Originally posted by RoadRunner88

As for abortions however that is immoral ad it is a form of murder and frankly it is disgusting.

When you see the alternative (miscarriage), it's more disgusting. And it's not like the women getting abortions typically "don't care"... it's usually a hard choice for them. But hell if I was a woman and I had a choice of abortion or poopting out baby body parts and blood in a couple months I would be choosing the former, thank you!

Overall I do believe it's a choice that shouldn't be 100% outlawed. And when it's a choice, it's up to the woman to make an ethical one given the circumstances.

[gouldy]

Originally posted by RoadRunner88

As for abortions however that is immoral ad it is a form of murder and frankly it is disgusting. If you know how the procedure is performed you would want to puke. Also think about it this way, what if thanks to an abortion you weren't here to right these post...hmm.

During the legal term of abortion (in developed nations), the foetus is not really anything more than a collection of cells with the correct potential informtion and the correct setting in order to become a child. By no measurement is the foetus anything that you could even come close to calling a person. You cannot call the termination of this process at that point 'murder', unless you are also willing to call the process of s.e.xual intercourse 'genocide'. During s.e.x, the male releases millions of sperm cells - even with the best will in the world (thanks to the hostile nature of the female reproductive system) only 1 or 2 sperm cells will potentially make it through, if any make it at all. Realise that because of this, you have just murdered millions of potential children.

Also, you may notice that your female compatriots bleed from their vaginas about once a month after the age of about 12/13. This is because they're killing children inside them at a rate of about once a month. "think about it this way, what if thanks to your mom's period you weren't here to *write these post*s...hmm."

Just think of all those millions of children you killed after you were 12/13, as well. All those kids dead in those tissues, flushed away. What must you think of yourself?


RoadRunner, please take this in the light-hearted way in which it was intended, I'm not trying to insult you.

Originally posted by jayman

as far as i can see in this thread NOBODY has expressed ANY hatred towards gay people. however, hatred towards christians seems to be the theme of every other post..

... and every other thread here in the Off-Topic section of WWS/CS. Two points, Jay. (PS: Sad news about the Duck passing away.)

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy

You [in particular] were raised to believe one set of beliefs and to live your life in strict dictation of these beliefs and to discard or ignore any conflict of these beliefs that were to arise in your life- like this topic- and that, TJ, is why you should feel free to disappear again.

Actually, I was raised as an agnostic. Boom. I guess you don't know me as well as you think.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Does Mr. No-Bachelors have any other rank to pull?

Nice to see you again, Matt. The answer you were waiting on (in case you were needing one), is "NO", he doesn't have anything else to say on his (or my) education. Obviously.

Originally posted by gouldy

The problem is, it's not just TJ that holds these views, in the US especially, his view is shared by a lot of people - and it's unbelievable given the amount of understanding we have available, that there is still such horrendous ignorance. What's worse is that people who share his views are able to get into office - dangerous, very dangerous.

You are correct that there is a lot of perversion (or skewing) going on in the forum of public opinion, especially as it relates to upbringing and religion and "how folks should live". Therefore, I was only speaking for myself when I made my initial comment on this thread about not agreeing with it, and that my own view of morality is why.

It has nothing to do with wanting to affect how people live or their happiness ... (here's the important part, don't miss this) I'm not sure why you (or anyone else) cannot seem to grasp that I have an opinion and it is mine to have. I spent 20 years in the military defending the right for others to have an opinion in this Nation, and you can bet that I am allowed to have one as well.

For the record, you will never see me standing in front of an abortion clinic, banging on the front door of a gay couple, grabbing a microphone on the 6 o'clock news, or even running for office for that matter. My views are mine to have, just as yours are yours. But to be hated for having a view is about as silly and juvenile as me hating the fact you have an opinion too. It is just ... well ... juvenile, IMHO.

Originally posted by RoadRunner88

Obama is an evil socialist. He does want to destroy America. The citizens were just such blind sheep that they elected him. I mean socialized medicine come on really! That's moving toward communism. The government can't tell me what to buy!

Poe's Law? No? Shiiiit.

You might not agree with his policies, and you might believe that they will "destroy america", but that doesn't mean he wants to destroy america. In fact, I would all but guarantee that he's acting in what he sees at this country's best interests. Many, MANY people agree with his policies - are all of us trying to destroy america? I could say exactly the same thing about any conservative, by the way. "I don't think his policies will end well for this country. He wants to destroy america!"

Seriously, stop listening to limbaugh and start listening to real news. I mean, I would even recommend Fox as a nice stepping stone to neutrality, if you don't want to quit cold turkey.

If you know how the procedure is performed you would want to puke.

OH GOD THAT WOMAN IS TAKING A PILL!!!!! OH, THE HORROR!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!!! NO SHE'S TAKING ANOTHER ONE! OH ITS DISGUSTING I WANT TO PUKE!!!!

---

originally posted by TConwell

You are correct that there is a lot of perversion (or skewing) going on in the forum of public opinion, especially as it relates to upbringing and religion and "how folks should live". Therefore, I was only speaking for myself when I made my initial comment on this thread about not agreeing with it, and that my own view of morality is why.

It has nothing to do with wanting to affect how people live or their happiness ... (here's the important part, don't miss this) I'm not sure why you (or anyone else) cannot seem to grasp that I have an opinion and it is mine to have. I spent 20 years in the military defending the right for others to have an opinion in this Nation, and you can bet that I am allowed to have one as well.

A few things..

First,

Live your life as you choose

Assuming you subscribe to the "gay people are just making a lifestyle choice", why doesn't this apply to the rest of your decisions? Especially since your opinions have "nothing to do with wanting to affect how people live or their happiness"?

Second, I wish the Christian right would realize that it's ok to have an opinion that restricts the rights of other human beings, but you shouldn't be expected to be taken seriously when you express said opinion. And I would say that you need to learn the second part of that. You have a right to express opinions, yes, but you won't always be taken seriously! Suppose I were to say "women are inferior beings. They are the property of their husbands, and shouldn't ever tempt men by exposing their skin." Should you say "oh, that's cool. I'm glad you shared your opinion."? No, you should say "you sick bastard." It doesn't matter if "God" dictated these instructions to someone. It's a vile opinion to hold and shouldn't be expressed in a public space, and if it is expressed, should be ridiculed.

Next "your own view of morality" (I'm assuming, here, that this view is based on the bible) requires women to be silent in churches, requires that a father kill his son if he curses him, and tells the world not to wear clothes of mixed fibers. Your morality says that it's ok to keep slaves, and that if your daughter is raped she should be sold to the rapist. So, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your view of morality (again, assuming it's based on the bible) is pretty damn warped.

And what causes you (assuming you're a decent human being) to reject "disgusting" parts of the bible and not others? What makes the single line about homo***uality more important than the single line about mixed clothing? Or the pages about the logistics of slavery?

Lastly, I completely disagree that there is a lot of "perversion (or skewing) going on". I would argue the opposite, in fact. That the people who you suppose to be perverting the word of god are actually taking it so seriously, so literally, that it's them that are the "true" christians.

In conclusion, the United States is a secular nation. As there are no valid secular reasons to oppose gay marriage, it should not even be an issue. If your morality is not secular, your morality should have no say in public policy. And, news flash, gay marriage is a matter of public policy.

^^ Sure you are speaking for yourself, and I completely understand how you would form an opinion on someone based on their ***uality (no i don't, lol), but please, refrain from voting if that's the case. What not many peoploe understand is the difference between having an opinion and enforcing that opinion. Having an opinion on something doesn't mean trying to change said thing, which is basically what people do by voting. Am I wrong? Don't people go to vote because they want to change something? And that my friend is exactly what I would call affecting peoples lives. If it really is just your opinion, and you really want to keep it to yourself, don't try to force it on others, even tho the system gives you the chance, or is that too much to ask for.
These "opinions" can really hurt people,you know....

Seriously, stop listening to limbaugh and start listening to real news. I mean, I would even recommend Fox as a nice stepping stone to neutrality, if you don't want to quit cold turkey.

First off I am sure that "limbaugh" is a name and therefore should be capitalized.
I do not listen to Limbaugh but I do subscribe to Glen Beck radio and I listen to Patriot 125 on Sirius X.M. While driving a bright orange Dodge Challenger so... Also Obama does want to destroy original American values as he is a a socialist. He does however want to completely destroy Israel as seen by his open "respect" for Ach Madinijad.-If that is how you spell it?

As for the abortion way Gouldy you make a great point you are right. There are also different procedures the one which I am referring to was the operation where the fetus was extracted limb by limb through use of a vacuum.

Originally posted by boneplaya

Assuming you subscribe to the "gay people are just making a lifestyle choice", why doesn't this apply to the rest of your decisions? Especially since your opinions have "nothing to do with wanting to affect how people live or their happiness"?

Wow, that's really crazy. So crazy that I am going to choose to not respond. How's that? Come on man, you are so illogical on your response that I'm laughing. What rest of my decisions are you referring too? I choose everyday how I live, to get out of bed, to defend myself, and even (yes) to enjoy the company of a woman.

Originally posted by boneplaya

Lastly, I completely disagree that there is a lot of "perversion (or skewing) going on". I would argue the opposite, in fact. That the people who you suppose to be perverting the word of god are actually taking it so seriously, so literally, that it's them that are the "true" christians.

So, are those persons taking the Bible so seriously as bad as Patriots taking the Declaration of Independence seriously? The Bill of Rights? The Constitution? Come on, you can't support one set of guidelines and avoid another without defeating your own argument. Lastly, your understanding of what my morals are is in a word, incorrect. To assume you know what I think is a wee bit juvenile, and presumptuous at best.

Originally posted by Vid_w

^^ Sure you are speaking for yourself, and I completely understand how you would form an opinion on someone based on their ***uality (no i don't, lol), but please, refrain from voting if that's the case. What not many peoploe understand is the difference between having an opinion and enforcing that opinion. Having an opinion on something doesn't mean trying to change said thing, which is basically what people do by voting. Am I wrong? Don't people go to vote because they want to change something? And that my friend is exactly what I would call affecting peoples lives. If it really is just your opinion, and you really want to keep it to yourself, don't try to force it on others, even tho the system gives you the chance, or is that too much to ask for.
These "opinions" can really hurt people,you know....

Refrain from voting? Oh wait, you aren't an American, that explains that statement. Any American would truly want to vomit at that thought; especially a retired military member who understands the sacrifices of those made before me to EARN and DEFEND the right to vote. Nothing is being forced by me, and to think I have that much authority "over others lives" is incorrect/misplaced flattery; but in my house this is how I choose to live.