OBAMA SUPPORTS GAY MARRIAGE

[gouldy]

Originally posted by TConwell


For the record, you will never see me standing in front of an abortion clinic, banging on the front door of a gay couple, grabbing a microphone on the 6 o'clock news, or even running for office for that matter. My views are mine to have, just as yours are yours. But to be hated for having a view is about as silly and juvenile as me hating the fact you have an opinion too. It is just ... well ... juvenile, IMHO.

Just firstly, I didn't say I hated you, that was someone else. I realise you're defending yourself on a few fronts here.

But, to say that hating someone for their opinion is juvenile isn't on the money for me (and yes, that's an opinion ). I do, however, think that use of the word hate in the first instance was probably a little misguided - but other people's opinions do inform your judgement of that person, you can't pretend otherwise. Would your opinion of me not lessen (I should hope that it would) if I were to come out and say something like: "I think all black people should be put into detainment camps away from the rest of the populous"?

Of course other people's opinions inform your judgement of that person. Hate is a strong word, but of course you would have hatred for someone with an opinion of that nature, especially if you were part of the group that was the target of the opinion, or if you had Human empathy for the group that was the target of the opinion. You can't have opinions that others should have lesser rights than you and not expect that opinion to have a negative affect on other people's opinion of you.

Refrain from voting? Oh wait, you aren't an American, that explains that statement. Any American would truly want to vomit at that thought; especially a retired military member who understands the sacrifices of those made before me to EARN and DEFEND the right to vote. Nothing is being forced by me, and to think I have that much authority "over others lives" is incorrect/misplaced flattery; but in my house this is how I choose to live.

Ah, so THAT is the reason why you guys fought all those wars? For others to have freedom? I thought it was for oil or world power, but now it seems you guys did it for freedom! Splended. So, I guess I'll be seeing the US Army a few more times the coming years? I know more that enough countries where people have no freedom at all, I'm sure you guys want them to be free again? Or was it just coincedence that you guys always seem to go on war against countries who are in someway making the USA look less powerfull? My bad for thinking logic..

Come'on, who are you fooling man, the USA only goes to war to make their own (sinking) position better. The whole propaganda about giving those people freedom en right to their own opinion? I call that bullpoop, because if that was the case, the US Army would fight pther wars than against Irak or Iran (that one must be coming). You guys are aimed so much against communism that your own government can you communist tactics like propaganda to control you.

No harm ment against you Tconwell, you have every right to your own opinion, but realy, I can't believe all you guys actually believe that 'We give the world freedom' poop.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by gouldy

Just firstly, I didn't say I hated you, that was someone else. I realise you're defending yourself on a few fronts here.

We should use Rcking logic and arbitrarily decide he doesn't like something such as birth control based a vague comment.

with ya Gouldy. Fair enough. However ...

Originally posted by RCT-3-Crazy

Splended ... Irak ... ment ... coincedence ... powerfull.

We actually fought for education too, guess that war was lost.

Originally posted by RCT-3-Crazy

Ah, so THAT is the reason why you guys fought all those wars? For others to have freedom? I thought it was for oil or world power, but now it seems you guys did it for freedom! Splended. So, I guess I'll be seeing the US Army a few more times the coming years? I know more that enough countries where people have no freedom at all, I'm sure you guys want them to be free again? Or was it just coincedence that you guys always seem to go on war against countries who are in someway making the USA look less powerfull? My bad for thinking logic..

Come'on, who are you fooling man, the USA only goes to war to make their own (sinking) position better. The whole propaganda about giving those people freedom en right to their own opinion? I call that bullpoop, because if that was the case, the US Army would fight pther wars than against Irak or Iran (that one must be coming). You guys are aimed so much against communism that your own government can you communist tactics like propaganda to control you.

No harm ment against you Tconwell, you have every right to your own opinion, but realy, I can't believe all you guys actually believe that 'We give the world freedom' poop.

Dude, you do know there were more wars before 1990, right? These are the ones I am referring to. Ya know, where independence was won? Wow man, go back to school, or better yet, back to bed. Yikes.

Originally posted by TConwell

Dude, you do know there were more wars before 1990, right? These are the ones I am referring to. Ya know, where independence was won? Wow man, go back to school, or better yet, back to bed. Yikes.

Dude, you know I know that right.

Sure, you guys fought a hell of a lot small wars and sure some of them acctualy made the country better. And yes, I congratulate you for that. But in the end, looking at what it all costs, how the USA acts, it only has en will provoke hate against the country. You guys spend trillions of dollars making the world 'safe'. So safe that if every war on earth ended half your country would go bankrupt. Or does the USA not have one of the biggest war industries on earth. If you guys really believed in freedom you would make sure your own country would be oke, instead of neglecting your own country to go to war...

Originally posted by RCT-3-Crazy

Refrain from voting? Oh wait, you aren't an American, that explains that statement. Any American would truly want to vomit at that thought; especially a retired military member who understands the sacrifices of those made before me to EARN and DEFEND the right to vote. Nothing is being forced by me, and to think I have that much authority "over others lives" is incorrect/misplaced flattery; but in my house this is how I choose to live.

Ah, so THAT is the reason why you guys fought all those wars? For others to have freedom? I thought it was for oil or world power, but now it seems you guys did it for freedom! Splended. So, I guess I'll be seeing the US Army a few more times the coming years? I know more that enough countries where people have no freedom at all, I'm sure you guys want them to be free again? Or was it just coincedence that you guys always seem to go on war against countries who are in someway making the USA look less powerfull? My bad for thinking logic..

Come'on, who are you fooling man, the USA only goes to war to make their own (sinking) position better. The whole propaganda about giving those people freedom en right to their own opinion? I call that bullpoop, because if that was the case, the US Army would fight pther wars than against Irak or Iran (that one must be coming). You guys are aimed so much against communism that your own government can you communist tactics like propaganda to control you.

No harm ment against you Tconwell, you have every right to your own opinion, but realy, I can't believe all you guys actually believe that 'We give the world freedom' poop.

You really are talking completely out of your ass...

Many american people are so nationalistic that they will see every mayor argument against their country as a direct attack on it

Originally posted by RoadRunner88

Seriously, stop listening to limbaugh and start listening to real news. I mean, I would even recommend Fox as a nice stepping stone to neutrality, if you don't want to quit cold turkey.

First off I am sure that "limbaugh" is a name and therefore should be capitalized.

Oh, boo fukcing hoo.

I do not listen to Limbaugh but I do subscribe to Glen Beck radio and I listen to Patriot 125 on Sirius X.M. While driving a bright orange Dodge Challenger so... Also Obama does want to destroy original American values as he is a a socialist. He does however want to completely destroy Israel as seen by his open "respect" for Ach Madinijad.-If that is how you spell it?

You have no idea what you're talking about..."economy with socialist influences" is entirely different from "socialist economy". Obama favors the latter, and frankly I agree with that. You may not, but that doesn't mean he wants to destroy America nor does it mean he wants a strictly socialist state.

---

originally posted by TConwell

Wow, that's really crazy. So crazy that I am going to choose to not respond. How's that? Come on man, you are so illogical on your response that I'm laughing. What rest of my decisions are you referring too? I choose everyday how I live, to get out of bed, to defend myself, and even (yes) to enjoy the company of a woman.

OK, I apologize for my poor wording. After re-reading my bit on that, I agree with your sentiment there. My point, though, was that if you want the freedom to live your life as you choose, why should you have the right to prevent other people from living their lives as they choose? There, is that better?

So, are those persons taking the Bible so seriously as bad as Patriots taking the Declaration of Independence seriously? The Bill of Rights? The Constitution? Come on, you can't support one set of guidelines and avoid another without defeating your own argument.

lolwut? My interpretation of what you said about perversion was that you believe people in the US are perverting God's word for their own gain, and I said that they're not the ones perverting it. What does this have to do with being good or bad or the founding documents of America?

Lastly, your understanding of what my morals are is in a word, incorrect. To assume you know what I think is a wee bit juvenile, and presumptuous at best.

I'm glad my assumptions were incorrect. In fact, I made those assumptions hoping that they were wrong.

I never assumed to know what you think. I made assumptions about your morals from the examples you gave, and the fact that you're a very [Christian] religious person (and, thus, probably derive your morals from the bible). I never said they were right or attacked you for believing the things I assumed you believed.

Additionally: I feel this quote is at least sort of relevant in this discussion.
"Any document that can be interpreted in enough ways to support any viewpoint ultimately ends up supporting none of them." -qualiasoup

Once again, if your opinions on life infringe on the rights of millions of Americans, then you best not act on them.

What happens when gay marriage is legalized:

Gays can receive full partner benefits from the government.
Churches will still have autonomous decision. No government will force a church to do anything

What happens if gay marriage remains illegal:

Gay couples are deemed second class and are restricted from receiving important benefits given to married couples.
Churches will still have autonomous decisions. No government will force a church to do anything.

Now find the common thing shared by these two.

[Coasterkidmwm]

I found it

They were both written by a saltporker.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

I found it

They were both written by a saltporker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Since you lack the ability to defend any argument you make other than to attack your opponents, you are therefore disqualified from being taken seriously. Congratulations.

Originally posted by rcking04

Once again, if your opinions on life infringe on the rights of millions of Americans, then you best not act on them.

What happens when gay marriage is legalized:

Gays can receive full partner benefits from the government.
Churches will still have autonomous decision. No government will force a church to do anything

What happens if gay marriage remains illegal:

Gay couples are deemed second class and are restricted from receiving important benefits given to married couples.
Churches will still have autonomous decisions. No government will force a church to do anything.

Now find the common thing shared by these two.

YES, Rcking04!

I am completely fine with the right to an opinion. But, when that opinion affects the lives of others (Millions), it is not justified. You can be racist, homophobic, or ***ist in your own home. Outside in society, keep it to yourself. There are other people in this world besides you!

[jayman]

i support gay marriage, and i support religious freedom . then again that's because i believe in tolerance.. i have no idea what happened to that word, it dissapeared a few years ago.. i support the right of people to be opposed to gay marriage as much as i support gay marriage, for me it cant be any other way for me. when i served in the military i served to protect people's right to be who they want and express those beliefs. that said . i have a problem with these measures making it to the ballot box. i agree that the church has the right to speak their part against gay marrige , and believe it or not ALOT of it is civil , and not hate based, but i for one do get worried when the church can influence laws ..
let's also remember that the abolition movement that started here in the early 1800's was also deeply based on religious conviction .

[coolbeans326]

Originally posted by gouldy

Originally posted by RoadRunner88

As for abortions however that is immoral ad it is a form of murder and frankly it is disgusting. If you know how the procedure is performed you would want to puke. Also think about it this way, what if thanks to an abortion you weren't here to right these post...hmm.

During the legal term of abortion (in developed nations), the foetus is not really anything more than a collection of cells with the correct potential informtion and the correct setting in order to become a child. By no measurement is the foetus anything that you could even come close to calling a person. You cannot call the termination of this process at that point 'murder', unless you are also willing to call the process of s.e.xual intercourse 'genocide'. During s.e.x, the male releases millions of sperm cells - even with the best will in the world (thanks to the hostile nature of the female reproductive system) only 1 or 2 sperm cells will potentially make it through, if any make it at all. Realise that because of this, you have just murdered millions of potential children.

Also, you may notice that your female compatriots bleed from their vaginas about once a month after the age of about 12/13. This is because they're killing children inside them at a rate of about once a month. "think about it this way, what if thanks to your mom's period you weren't here to *write these post*s...hmm."

Just think of all those millions of children you killed after you were 12/13, as well. All those kids dead in those tissues, flushed away. What must you think of yourself?


RoadRunner, please take this in the light-hearted way in which it was intended, I'm not trying to insult you.

This



I'm much more concerned with the economic policies of the country and in particular my state as it more directly affect me. I think Obama is right, the conversation of the legality of gays and marriage is a generational thing. Time will keep moving forward and attitudes on the issue will change so it is important to keep talking about it, but don't let it become the main focus. If gay's can get married tomorrow, we'll still be living in a sh!t hole if our government doesn't learn to appropriately spend its cash. All in all, his comments are a distraction from real issues, and its fodder for fundamentalists to run around throwing the bible at people who don't subscribe to it.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by rcking04
Since you lack the ability to defend any argument you make other than to attack your opponents, you are therefore disqualified from being taken seriously. Congratulations.

What ever will I do?

There's so many badasses in here.

[jayman]

Originally posted by coolbeans326

Originally posted by gouldy

Originally posted by RoadRunner88

As for abortions however that is immoral ad it is a form of murder and frankly it is disgusting. If you know how the procedure is performed you would want to puke. Also think about it this way, what if thanks to an abortion you weren't here to right these post...hmm.

During the legal term of abortion (in developed nations), the foetus is not really anything more than a collection of cells with the correct potential informtion and the correct setting in order to become a child. By no measurement is the foetus anything that you could even come close to calling a person. You cannot call the termination of this process at that point 'murder', unless you are also willing to call the process of s.e.xual intercourse 'genocide'. During s.e.x, the male releases millions of sperm cells - even with the best will in the world (thanks to the hostile nature of the female reproductive system) only 1 or 2 sperm cells will potentially make it through, if any make it at all. Realise that because of this, you have just murdered millions of potential children.

Also, you may notice that your female compatriots bleed from their vaginas about once a month after the age of about 12/13. This is because they're killing children inside them at a rate of about once a month. "think about it this way, what if thanks to your mom's period you weren't here to *write these post*s...hmm."

Just think of all those millions of children you killed after you were 12/13, as well. All those kids dead in those tissues, flushed away. What must you think of yourself?


RoadRunner, please take this in the light-hearted way in which it was intended, I'm not trying to insult you.

This



I'm much more concerned with the economic policies of the country and in particular my state as it more directly affect me. I think Obama is right, the conversation of the legality of gays and marriage is a generational thing. Time will keep moving forward and attitudes on the issue will change so it is important to keep talking about it, but don't let it become the main focus. If gay's can get married tomorrow, we'll still be living in a sh!t hole if our government doesn't learn to appropriately spend its cash. All in all, his comments are a distraction from real issues, and its fodder for fundamentalists to run around throwing the bible at people who don't subscribe to it.

HOOO FUCCKING RAH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it's one of those times to celebrate. a ****ing genuine united states mar-****ing-rine throws us for a loop and detracts from the mindless "baby killer robot" stereotype that seems to be so trendy to hold by people like rcking (who seems to be doing quite well in his political science classes.. we'll see about that engineering thing when he grows up and realizes that being on the trendy side of issues isnt as important as real life) well said kyle .. and worth considering if i may say so ..

[jayman]

Originally posted by GerstlCrazy

Originally posted by TConwell


"Your generation" How old do you think I am?

The point is that you and the included generation were not raised to understand all humans and their differences.

You [in particular] were raised to believe one set of beliefs and to live your life in strict dictation of these beliefs and to discard or ignore any conflict of these beliefs that were to arise in your life- like this topic- and that, TJ, is why you should feel free to disappear again [;)]

i'm older than tj, and we have opposite opinions on the matter and we quite enjoyed a day at knott's together. in fact I was raised to have taht opinion and rejected it , he was raised to embrace it and chose another path.. is the concept of tolerance lost on anyone under 30?
..

I'm intolerant towards people who are intolerant towards others, jayman, if that makes sense.

[Oscar]

Originally posted by rcking04

I'm intolerant towards people who are intolerant towards others, jayman, if that makes sense.

Everyone is intolerant of others in one way or another [:)]

[jayman]

Originally posted by rcking04

I'm intolerant towards people who are intolerant towards others, jayman, if that makes sense.

actually i expected that response.. and would like to point out your intolerable intolerance LOL. i'm old i know all this from like 25 years ago .. it isnt new, it's just way more in style now ..

[coolbeans326]

Originally posted by Oscar

Originally posted by rcking04

I'm intolerant towards people who are intolerant towards others, jayman, if that makes sense.

Everyone is intolerant of others in one way or another [:)]

I'm intolerant of those who slap their wee wee's. Yea, looking at you buddy[pshades]

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by rcking04

I'm intolerant towards people who are intolerant towards others, jayman, if that makes sense.

So you hate yourself?

[Oscar]

Originally posted by coolbeans326

I'm intolerant of those who slap their wee wee's. Yea, looking at you buddy[pshades]

/me slaps you with my weewee [xx(]

[gouldy]

Originally posted by Oscar

Originally posted by coolbeans326

I'm intolerant of those who slap their wee wee's. Yea, looking at you buddy[pshades]

/me slaps you with my weewee [xx(]

Well this thread just got almost back on topic.