Newtown, CT Elementary Shooting, 27 Dead

[Oscar]

You guys seen this on TV? Some dude has killed 27, several injured, 18 of the dead are children. Discuss!

'Murica!

[Coasterkidmwm]

KKK perhaps that wasn't the best of jokes to make right now.

Unbelievably tragic. The worst thing is that these kids do not even understand what's going on. That they will return to school and find out that about 20 of them will no longer be there ever gain...

Originally posted by KrazyKoasterKid

'Murica!

when you get shot in school and die im going to make jokes about it

Absolutely horrifying what happened there today. I saw a post on Facebook about this and went right to CNN.com.

Absolutely hideous.

[gouldy]

Whether it's in poor taste at this point or not:




I know this isn't a view that some of the members of this site could get on board with, but; it really is time for the US to change the way its gun laws work.

while my family hunts and whats brought in makes up about 30% of our meat(therefore saving a lot in our grocery bill). This is becoming way too common.

[Turbo]

This situation is horrible and it makes me sad to hear of any death in the world.

Originally posted by gouldy

Whether it's in poor taste at this point or not:




I know this isn't a view that some of the members of this site could get on board with, but; it really is time for the US to change the way its gun laws work.

Switzerlands gun laws are much less restricting than the US's. just saying.

Gun restriction is not smart. It is not the guns fault that it was used to kill no more than it is a knifes fault that it was used to slice bread.

Originally posted by gouldy

Whether it's in poor taste at this point or not:

/cut image portraying misleading statistics/

I know this isn't a view that some of the members of this site could get on board with, but; it really is time for the US to change the way its gun laws work.

Images like that irritate the piss out of me. Its not the handguns that are the problem, its the fact that people can get them so easily. And not even because of the laws on handguns, it is easy to illegally obtain a fire arm in the U.S. And people that are already subject to a life of crime are drawn to it with ease. A lot of those countries have just as many people per capita that carry weapons legally and freely, but they way their society approaches gun control and gun safety is far better than the way we do.

What happened was tragic. And if it was one of my children, I'd go on a manhunt to find the person who did it. But I'm not about to suggest punishing the rest of the law abiding citizens who deserve their right to self protection because of my personal loss.

In the big picture, 10k people a year isn't a lot. The U.S. is a very populated country, much of it rural or poor suburban/inner city. The potential for deviance of any degree is high for the simple fact that we have such a huge gap between the wealthy and the poor. There's a huge rant to be had there, but I'll digress.

Changing gun laws or restricting the purchase or usage of firearms will change nothing. People who commit crimes with guns usually committed crimes to obtain said guns. Its not such a simple answer to say that we need better gun control. That's too broad, that's too vague. What we need is a change in mindset as a country in our education, in the way we raise our children, and the way we handle the deviance no society can avoid.

[Oscar]

hmm change gun laws. Ban guns? Guns are banned in Mexico. 50,000 + have died because of guns there. Changing gun laws wont stop the people that want to kill others. Of course, that's just my opinion in observance of my neighboring country where guns are illegal.

I know this may sound weird coming from me, a Christian, but I honestly think it's because of our country's religious base that this keeps happening. Our religious system represses people. Our entire country is full of "morality police" who are constantly yelling at people about all the things they have done wrong, and there is strong systematic pressure to be "good." For those who cannot live up to the standard, they get bitter and angry at the whole damned system, and want to get revenge against it.

Again, this may sound like something I would never say, but my mindset changed when I did a study on ***ual crimes in Japan. Back in the 60's and 70's when pornography was still taboo in that country, they had relatively normal rates of *** crimes for a developed country. And then suddenly, in the 80's and 90's, when all hell broke loose and hentai and used school girl panties were so readily-available and accepted that they were even sold in vending machines, suddenly Japan's rates of *** crimes absolutely plummeted. Between 1970 and 1995, they dropped a whopping 85%.

I seriously believe this is the problem with America. Too many Christians constantly trying to enforce a standard of living upon people that they can't live up to, which eventually makes many of them snap. The solution is to just let people live their own lives. Educate and inform, but quit being the "morality police." Quit making those who don't fit in feel like worthless sacks of crap who are beyond help.

Wise words CJ. Many in my circle of friends believe, myself included, that the best and most free society lives on the verge on anarchy. Made up of citizens that are nearly without government regulation that can act accordingly as human beings, without constantly judging the degenerates and deviants further into the ground.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by Iron Man

Wise words CJ. Many in my circle of friends believe, myself included, that the best and most free society lives on the verge on anarchy. Made up of citizens that are nearly without government regulation that can act accordingly as human beings, without constantly judging the degenerates and deviants further into the ground.

Also known as "BOOO GOVERNMENT YOU'RE MEAN!"

**natural disaster occurs**

SUDDENLY I'M MAD THE GOVERNMENT ISN'T INTERVENING TO HELP ME WAAAAHHHH!!!!!

Honestly most of these shootings are committed by people who are licensed to have a gun. I personally think instead of just having a waiting period when buying a gun, they should make you go through a comprehensive psychiatric evaluation as well.

I found this article extremely helpful in regards to our gun laws, other countries gun laws, (Including Switzerland and Israel), and gun homicide rates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... ed-states/

Also Switzerland and Israel have substantially tightened their gun laws and aren't as loose as many people believe.

Personally, I like being able to shoot guns but I also believe that If we had tighter gun laws like most other countries we would avoid many of these terrible tragedies.

If we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

Like I said, I enjoy shooting guns, it's fun to go out to a range with friends or just shoot some junk on someones farm property. I'm not saying that we should just completely ban guns, but I would like for people who own guns to have a reason to own them. Not just because someday in some hypothetically possible situation, I MIGHT need one.

With all mass shootings and high profile homicides that have happened recently, no one with a concealed weapons license has been able to stop one from happening or been able to prevent it from escalating once it started. I'm not seeing the supposed benefit.

The argument that If we completely ban guns, that only criminals will have guns does have some merit. However if it's true that if we outlawed guns in the States, that gun related crimes would actually increase because law abiding citizens would not have guns to protect themselves. Then I think we have a much more serious problem then gun control.

The idea that there are that many potential criminals out there, whose only reason to not commit a crime, is because they might come across someone else with a gun. Is to me, even more frightening than any of these mass shootings. That would also indicate that the freedom to own a gun is not a solution to the problem of mass shootings but a reaction to it. We are trying to make us safer by treating the symptoms of the problem, but refusing to address the root cause.

This paragraph in reference to how Israel and Switzerland approach gun control stuck me as highly intelligent. "Both countries require you to have a reason to have a gun. There isn't this idea that you have a right to a gun. You need a reason. And then you need to go back to the permitting authority every six months or so to assure them the reason is still valid."

I think that is a good compromise between total freedom and an absolute ban that would most likely reduce the number of violent gun crimes that result in death. At the very least I think it would be smart to give it a trial run in some parts of the country and look at the results.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Originally posted by Iron Man

Wise words CJ. Many in my circle of friends believe, myself included, that the best and most free society lives on the verge on anarchy. Made up of citizens that are nearly without government regulation that can act accordingly as human beings, without constantly judging the degenerates and deviants further into the ground.

Also known as "BOOO GOVERNMENT YOU'RE MEAN!"

**natural disaster occurs**

SUDDENLY I'M MAD THE GOVERNMENT ISN'T INTERVENING TO HELP ME WAAAAHHHH!!!!!

I leave for two years, and you haven't changed a bit man... hahaha

But no, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. I do not get upset with my government for their over/under regulation. I cannot control these things. I can however, move. But I won't. I like the country I live in, and I realize that the things I don't like about this country won't change because of my tiny voice. Things are more than comfortable here, despite the very minor inconveniences.

Secondly, my statement had nothing to do with anarchy over being upset with the government or the reaction of said government failing to provide for its citizens. Those were implications you put in yourself via assumption. My statement had almost no relevance to government what-so-ever. Rather, it was directed toward the citizens and how they can handle themselves without a government, regardless of their government's actions. We all know what is right and wrong on a basic level. Part of it is internal, part of it is how you are raised. And a country that brings its youth up in a manner that balances (inevitable) deviant acts with righteous ones would have less and less need for a stringent government. That was my point, you took it way out of context.

Back on topic.

Originally posted by Mrfeeny
"Both countries require you to have a reason to have a gun. There isn't this idea that you have a right to a gun. You need a reason. And then you need to go back to the permitting authority every six months or so to assure them the reason is still valid."

I think that is a good compromise between total freedom and an absolute ban that would most likely reduce the number of violent gun crimes that result in death. At the very least I think it would be smart to give it a trial run in some parts of the country and look at the results.

I disagree. Many Americans that I know do not own guns solely for personal protection or have a "valid" use to own a firearm (or an arsenal). Most people that I know use their weapons for sport; be it target ranges or hunting. Now, the later could be considered a valid reason to own a gun for some, but not all. And then we get to the nitty-gritty of what a "valid" reason to own a firearm would be. And that I think would simply re-ignite the feud between pro-gun people and those opposing. Finding a solution for this without taking away the freedoms of perfectly innocent individuals is not going to be easy. I personally don't have an answer, even though I can voice that I don't like most that have been proposed, nor do I feel that the solutions thus far would really work in a mutual favor for all doing right.

Ever since making my post yesterday, I decided to look into this further. And the more I look into it, the more I'm convinced that this is indeed the case.

I just looked at a study of which regions of America have the highest rates of assault deaths per capita. And the region of America which has the highest rates is in fact the South, the Bible Belt, the most religious portion of America. And the two regions of the country with the lowest rates of assault deaths? The West and the Northeast, the two most liberal regions of America. The rates of assault deaths in the Bible Belt exceed the per-capita rates of the entire rest of the country by a whopping 48%. I think I'm on to something here.

[Coasterkidmwm]

I don't really see how noticing that the South is an obese boat anchor of Bible thumping retardation that drags the country down is a major discovery but okay. Here is a good debunking southern ideals:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... apers.html

Great pie chart no? I printed it out and put it on my door, but my printer isn't high enough in resolution/quality or whatever so the red "slice" didn't show up.

Statistics have a "liberal bias" because the south's bullpoop is raging denial and isolation based. They can keep having gay *** scandals and significantly more abortions than everyone else in their F350's with naked woman mudflaps.

I will say it was pretty funny watching them try as hard as they possibly could to lose the election and then wondering why being anti-civil rights, anti-woman, and anti-"not white people" lost them an election. No president gets reelected after economic downturns that are a tenth as bad as the one we're currently in, it's really pathetic they managed to lose that through their own stupidity.

[gouldy]

Originally posted by Iron Man
What happened was tragic. And if it was one of my children, I'd go on a manhunt to find the person who did it. But I'm not about to suggest punishing the rest of the law abiding citizens who deserve their right to self protection because of my personal loss.

This paragraph is telling of the problem in the US, for me.
"punishing the rest of the law abiding citizens who deserve their right to self protection". Would you need such over zealous protection if you were unlikely to ever need protecting from guns? No, no you wouldn't. This is the vicious circle you're trapped in, this mentality towards machinery developed specifically for ending life, is dangerous - there is no way you can look at this that will make that any less true.

I've spoken to Americans about this before, and almost 100% of the time, you/they completely misunderstand what it is for a country to have proper gun laws in place. Often, I get told things like "You're not living in freedom, because you're not able to own a gun"; it's hard to think of a statement that is false in more ways than this . So, I'd like to try and clear up gun laws and the mentality toward guns here:

I live in the UK and it would be completely legal for me to own a gun, however; to first obtain this legality, I would need to go through the appropriate screening processes and examination to be granted a proper license. Everyone applying for gun ownership needs to be successfully refereed with a character statement, certifying their mental state. I would also need to prove valid reasoning that would necessitate the owning of the gun, something which would be required upon the purchase of each weapon individually, too. For example; shooting for sport, hunting, farming uses - I live in a fairly rural part of the country and for that reason I know a few folk with gun racks, so the suggestion that we can't own guns is ludicrous. Every gun made here, or imported into the country legally is registered, certificated and accounted for, so everything is traceable. As a gun owner, you may be required to present a weapon upon request to the police to ensure you have not ilegally moved the gun on to someone unlicensed.

The upshot of all this, of course, is that it is rare that guns can be legally picked up by people who would use them for otherwise criminal activity, or by those with mental illness/instability (as with this latest Newtown shooting). The laws on the movement of guns also helps ensure that it is extremely difficult for guns to be obtained illegally. As a result, society feels no need to protect itself from the threat of gun crime, and as such feels no need to own guns. Of course, this doesn't mean gun crime doesn't happen here, but what it does mean is that gun crime is so rare that no one fears it, we are a society without fear of gun crime. Heck, even the police don't feel the need to have guns (Authority by trust, not by force or threat). I live in the knoweldge that if I am ever confronted by an intruder in my house, trying to steal my stuff, at the very worst he might be armed with a knife, but will likely not be armed at all.

Add to all of that the fact that we, for the most part, are aware of the real truth of the matter (and I'm not going to mince my words with this); guns in the public sphere are for f.cking huge pussies - do some weights and protect yourself and your family like a man.


Guns are one of the main reasons I have never desired moving to the US.