Throwing This Out There (Originally From NL-E) -Free Opinion-

I'm going to point out one situation that is really starting to get out of hand lately. That situation is the fact that everything apparently has to be exactly like the real manufacturers like B&M, Arrow, Intamin, Mack, Gravity, you name it. The coasters in Nolimits HAVE to be like the group that made them. I'm pretty sure most of us who create coasters are tired of dealing with the fact that, lets just say for example: Your drop isn't like B&M, use referencing like Behemoth, Leviathan, Diamondback, and the other B&M Coasters around the world. Or maybe the shaping on the drop is poor, the inversion is poor.

I've been making Roller Coasters since 2010ish, maybe 2009. It's something I want to do for a living now, and continue doing. I'm almost about to QUIT doing it, because everyone is so needy to make sure it makes exact specifications to the ride manufacturer. Even if you say, it's a Fantasy coaster, or it's your own ride manufacturer (Appalachian Coasters Inc. for me, or Gravityflyers from Nick/Gravityflyer) (Although he doesn't get it much to none at all.)

It's a topic I'm putting out here. I'm tired of having to make sure a ride that I made reaches exact specifications from B&M, or Mack, or Intamin, or Arrow... I love making Roller Coasters, but you guys keep pushing us to make sure it's just like how a manufacturer would make it, even when we aren't doing a manufacture coaster. When we are doing our own thing in the coaster world. Ever since NL2, it's gotten REALLY bad. Maybe we want our drop to be over 90 degrees on a B&M. Or maybe the hill is suppose to be a little bit misshaped, it happens to the best of us. We love the coasters that we make. Not what B&M, or Arrow... (Well I should stop there, of course we love the real coasters) but I mean, we love the coasters that we come up with, with our own mind. Not what other guys made.

The reason the title says free opinions, is because you are entitled to your own opinion, and NO one should judge you, or start a big fight over it. I'm expressing my feelings about the fact that everyone wants the rides to be like the real rides, in the real world. But you know, this is a Virtual world, where anything (almost) is possible!

-Aussiemine

this was originally on NL-E, posted by me. and I'm putting it up here as well. It does happen here.

I have this jet coaster I made.

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It is styled after this Korean jet coaster.

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http://rcdb.com/3692.htm?p=44245

BUT I added a second track of my own layout while sticking to realistic jet coaster styles.

Is that a good example of what you are talking about?

[Turbo]

Personally when I rate I take the description of the ride into account. That being said: When I comment about shaping on rides, normally I don't mention the manufacturer used I just refer to the amount of stress that would be put on riders, trains, tracks, and supports

I did create a new track/train coaster style.

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Might wanna save some time now and give up on designing for a living and practice for a real job.

If you work for a design firm in the real world, you'll be attending to their design standards. It's really really unlikely you'll be the head designer of your own design firm.

I don't mean this rudely or in a harsh way, but I think it's a matter of laziness. If you spend time on tediously making the shaping like B&M does, it will be a) realistic, b) amazing like a real B&M, and c) still your own! You can still make your own creative layouts and hybrid elements using their standards.

So, Aussie, what you're saying is that you don't care for guidelines or specifications or company realism, yet you want to be an engineer? Right... I think you would do well to gain respect for the feats that all of these real companies have spent decades mastering to arrive at the modern roller coaster, and with that you might learn something from them. There is a reason they are successful real-world companies now. I'm a junior in my mechanical engineering program and I thought this would be good advice for you, a fellow aspiring engineer. You will have to become comfortable with obeying guidelines set by your senior engineers. They know what they're doing =D

That aside, I completely understand "going outside of the box" with NL. The way I see it, anything can be plausible (even the beyond vertical B&M you were speaking of!) if you pay close mind to follow shaping characteristics.

And let's face it, the reason people in our community emphasize importance of guidelines is because it takes more talent and skill to make a B&M that looks like a B&M than to make a B&M that's completely random, and everybody likes showing off skills.

I'm almost about to QUIT doing it, because everyone is so needy to make sure it makes exact specifications to the ride manufacturer.

Make sure to put that on your resume!

Honestly, build what you want.

This is the internet, even if you build to an exact standard, someone will dislike it or criticize you on it. As long as you are satisfied with your own works, who gives a flying rats ass about anyone else's opinion.

I would also suggest that perhaps roller coaster design isn't your biggest passion, if a lonely internet community can sway you from pursuing your career/life dreams and goals.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, how about we stop jumping down his throat for something he didn't say.

He never said he wouldn't follow guidelines. He doesn't work for B&M, so why should his coasters mimic a B&M just because he used B&M hardware? NL2 doesn't enforce manufactures guidelines, why should we as users arbitrarily inflict penalties on users because they didn't follow them?

You don't learn what's possible or fun by following strict guidelines, you have to break rules to see what works and what doesn't, and NL2 is a safe environment to do so. Can I point out that vertical loops and cobra rolls violated guidelines at some point. 100+ MPH launches? Yeah, that was a broken guideline at some point. If it were up to you guys, we would still be riding wooden out and backs. When you get a job, you follow the rules, and if you've been pushing the boundaries you know why those rules are there.

Arrow doesn't follow B&M guidelines, B&M doesn't follow Intamin guidelines, etc... so obviously there is room to move and still create safe, fun rides.

This is exactly why I'm hesitant to upload anything anywhere. I create coasters I want to ride, not one that matches some specification for a company that doesn't pay me for my time. If that's the standard we must be held to, then I may as well quit this community right now. I feel sorry for all you guys who have never tried to do anything different and outside the guidelines. It's going to be one hell of a boring future with you in charge.

[Oscar]

Chill, build what you want knowing others will disagree with you regardless if you adhere to company standards or your own. You can't make everyone happy and some people will disagree with you because they just want to.

Geez the issue is people's motives. Build for yourself. When I sit down and build things, I keep building because I'm enjoying doing it. Personally I think it is fun and challenging to build a ride to fit the constraints of a given manufacturer. You do what you want if it makes you happy. The reason why realism and accuracy are such a big deal is because it makes a ride convincing, and allows people to take the ride seriously enough to experience it vicariously. It's a big deal to most people who are enthusiasts and want to capture the experience of a real coaster. There are others ways to make a ride that can be taken seriously, but in most cases a lack of accuracy is not on purpose, and is just the builders lack of experience or laziness. I honestly think that making a ride accurate is really fun and has always been my main goal in creating rides so I don't understand why it is such a chore. But as I said if it's a chore then don't do it..

It's definitely possible to make a spectacular ride that isn't anything like the respective company's building technique and for it to be well-received on these exchanges [approve] Even if you want to build something that is of your own style, and you put forth enough effort to make it amazing then it generally doesn't matter if you haven't followed the design characteristics to a tee.

^exhibit A trackwalker..

[TTD03]

When I rate, which is a rare occurance, I usually don't take the manufacturer's "feel" of a ride into account, I would only mention the manufacturer's "feel" for a ride if it was a positive thing, not a negative thing.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by Kyle Sloane

Geez the issue is people's motives. Build for yourself.

I am often yelled at for being a realism nazi. I build to make myself happy, which is usually more towards the realistic side. I do occasionally go in the other direction though. Here are several suggestions to avoid the realism slamming issue:

1.) Don't claim something is ultra-realistic when you built it freeform. This lie is similar to telling people you can drink them under the table and then subsequently becoming incoherent after two Smirnoff Ices (that you brought with). Any claims you made earlier deserve to be mocked in public. Same principle applies here. Don't lie to me. I've seen some really cool messed up ideas pulled off the right way. Be up front and tell me what I'm downloading.

2.) Reread #1


That's it.

[Oscar]

Guys, I never did say I wouldn't work with the specifications of a designer if I had a job AT the designer. I'm saying I don't want to right NOW, because I want to do my own thing. It's always a growing problem, and I don't understand why you are jumping at me for saying things I never truely said I did (Until now)

I said it was free opinion, but I'm about to back that status off.

That's thing though, you do have the freedom to build whatever you want, whenever you want and however you want.

No one can stop what you choose to build.

Once again, just build for yourself. What's the point of building to please other people anyways? Do you think they actually care about some random ride uploaded to some random website? Nope.

Originally posted by Jakizle

Might wanna save some time now and give up on designing for a living and practice for a real job.

Reading over posts

How is designing not a real job?

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Aussiemine

Originally posted by Jakizle

Might wanna save some time now and give up on designing for a living and practice for a real job.

Reading over posts

How is designing not a real job?

Let me rephrase that for him: We've all had the dream. We've all wanted to work for B&M or Intamin or Gerstlauer etc. However it is one of the hardest careers to get into because there aren't too many people who work in the field. You can try to the best of your ability to work for whomever you wish, but keep in mind that it probably wont happen. Have a backup plan.

Originally posted by Aussiemine

Ever since NL2, it's gotten REALLY bad.

Actually, ever since NL2, it's gotten way easier to get away with "whatever" designs because it's new software and people are having fun. If anything it's gotten more relaxed around here. If you're new because of NoLimits 2, you simply don't understand how the last 2 years have been lol.

Originally posted by Aussiemine

Maybe we want our drop to be over 90 degrees on a B&M.

lol It's hilarious that you say this because the highest rated coaster of All Time on CoasterCrazy is... you guessed it... a beyond 90-degree dropping B&M dive coaster!

http://www.coastercrazy.com/track_exchange/detail/11108

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To spare everyone from having to scroll a lot in this thread, I'm just going to drop a link that basically says everything there needs to be said.

TL;DR

• Numerical ratings are simply a means of ranking. I'm sorry we try to accurately rank things.
• You can be original and get high scores.
• In the grand scheme of things (i.e. life), why would you get so upset over Internet points from virtual simulated roller coasters.

For every new person that asks this question, I'm just going to post links to this topic and to the NL-E topic. It's come up every now and then since 2002, and the answer is always the same.