A new kind of contest?

^That's just complicating things a bit. I like CKidd's idea of simplifying it with fewer fators.

[Turbo]

I want to make this complex, but not too complex. Having different costs for different heights seems like it'd be nice to need to consider when building. mkingy if you want to make a spreadsheet then go for it

[Imgur link if pics don't show for some reason: http://imgur.com/a/o6sRI ]

An easy way to calculate your total cost is through the use of Style Separators.



The support cost will be chosen by the overall height of the support.



To figure out the track cost, all you need to do is the length by the cost-per-height. This first one would be 135 (Rounded length) times 300 (height cost)



The next one would be 151 (Rounded length) times 600 (height cost)



This is how to do supports: the diameter will be rounded as well as length, but diameter is rounded to the nearest .1. so say you have 1.34, for the cost it would be 1.3, .50's will be rounded down.

So, for the footers it would be 15 (base footer cost) times the diameter multiplier of the current beam (in this case 60)
Beams will be similar but a bit more difficult. this is the beam cost formula: [(Diameter X Multiplier) X Support Length = Total Support Cost]

so, now that that's done, here's an example:
Footers: [15 X 60] X 2 = $1800
Beams: {[1.7 X 60] X 67} + {[1.6 X 60] X 68} = $13362
Total for this support: $15162



Now then as a whole this entire section is worth $376320. The calculations are included below



Track: {135 X 300} + {151 X 600} + {47 X 900} + {146 X 600} + {130 X 300} = $300000
Footers: 1500 + 3600 + 2100 = $7200
Support 1: [1.6 X 50] X 18 = $1440
Support 2: {[1.6 X 60] X 70} + {[1.7 X 60] X 65} = $13350
Support 3: {[1.8 X 70] X 145} + {[1.7 X 70] X 151} + {[1.7 X 70] X 31} = $39928
Support 4: {[1.6 X 60] X 68} + {[1.7 X 60] X 67} = $13362
Support 5: [1.6 X 50] X 13 = $1040

Total: $376320

-----------------------------------

Now then, for those who are scared of this contest, it will be carried out over months and there won't be a very tight time limit because I know this is a lot to do. I don't know when it'll start just yet, but this has been working out pretty nicely up until now as far as realistic and balanced cost goes. The really hard part will be figuring out the budgets.

Well, if you take the entire cost process that I described, along with the smaller details that you just went over, you can eliminate certain things, as some stuff can be a flat price.

- Design engineer: Determined price based on manufacturer style [Intamin: $1.5M, B&M: $1.3M, etc]

- Manufacturing costs (materials, labor, machine use): This would include all the track, support, and train costs, along with a base price per manufacturer.

- Transportation of materials: Depending on the size of the coaster, this can vary greatly. A way to do it would be 1 truck can carry "N" amount of track and supports. "X" feet of track + "Y" feet of supports = "Z" total feet of materials/"N" truck load = "T" number of trucks.

- Construction labor: Again, this can be a flat cost.

- Heavy equipment use (cranes, etc.): Depending on height, and terraforming, this can vary. 1 bulldozer can clear/terraform "X" square feet of land.

- Loss of profit from closed portion of land: This is in the air, as it may be a new park yet to be opened to the public.

- Hiring/retraining park staff: Pretty simple here. $X per hour of training. Training depends on things like dual stations, track switches, number of trains, brake runs. Anything that the dispatcher would need to know how to control at any time.

- Maintenance: Intamin coasters break down more than B&M, for example. This could be a flat cost based on the type of coaster.

- Annual state inspection: Again, flat cost. Could be anywhere from $100-$500.

[Turbo]

One of a few issues with that is that you are suggesting way too many details. I personally would LOVE to do that, but it's already complex as it is. Another issue is that this contest will be about building, and not the most realistic thing in the world. That being said I would LOVE to see some people start taking cost into account when they build even out of this contest

I don't think it over complicates things. Once you determine the style you're going with, half of the cost is already calculated.


Edit: Let's say you're doing an Intamin that is 2000 feet long, 5000 total feet of supports, and has a cable lift.

Designer: $1.5M
Manufacturing cost: Let's say $100K for use of the Intamin factory
Construction: $500K (again, an example)
Transportation: Each truck is 56' long, and can carry let's say, 200' of track, or 500' of supports each. This is a lot for one truck, but it's a simple example. 2000/200 = 10 trucks for track and 5000/500 = 10 trucks for supports = 20 trucks total. Each truck costs $1K. So, $20K in transportation.
Maintenance: It's Intamin, so we'll say it costs $5K
State inspection: $100

So right here we have $2,125,100 and that's more or less flat cost based on the style alone.

[Turbo]

For you and me no but for the general NL2 player yes it is. Sure half the cost is calculated but that also means that you still have to do what I'm listing in which people seem to be on the fence about anyway.

[Turbo]

okay, based on NightwindElf's example, who would want that kind of detail added to the contest? those are flat costs before construction. Just a reminder this is the contest as of now:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Welcome to a new breed of contest: Budget Building. The idea is simple, you have a budget and cannot cross it. This does not mean however that this is the only rule, there are also other similar rules that you will see on other contests such as area limitations. The template will start with a simple park looking to expand and your job is to meet their limitations while providing an original thrill.

Now then, How much are we allowed per park? What are the values? How is this all calculated? Every foot of track is worth a certain amount, every foot of supports is worth a certain amount. Tube diameter and track height will also be accounted for with different pricing for each piece.

These are the current values that may be subject to change prior to the contest starting depending on the discussion following these early rules.

---------------------------------------

Track:

This is the simple part! Each track piece will be worth the amount below, and track with catwalk will be worth more as well.

~Only Track~
below 50 feet: $300/foot
55-149.9 feet: $600/foot
150-249.9 feet: $900/foot
250-349.9 feet: $1200/foot

~One Side Catwalk~
below 50 feet: $360/foot
55-149.9 feet: $720/foot
150-249.9 feet: $1080/foot
250-349.9 feet: $1440/foot

~Both Side Catwalk~
below 50 feet: $420/foot
55-149.9 feet: $840/foot
150-249.9 feet: $1260/foot
250-349.9 feet: $1680/foot

---------------------------------------

Supports:
The diameter of each tube will determine the cost per foot and will be determined by a multiplier of $5. So say you had a 1.6 foot diameter support that was 53 feet and it was $5 for each diameter, that would be [(1.6 X 50) X 53 = $4240] or [(Diameter X Multiplier) X Support Length = Total Support Cost]. I know there's a lot of math but this is what adds a really different challenge to NoLimits! and of course height will still be a factor which I will list below

~Diameter Multiplier Per Height~
below 50 feet: $50
55-149.9 feet: $60
150-249.9 feet: $70
250-349.9 feet: $80

~Footers~
15 X Connecting Diameter Multiplier

---------------------------------------

Examples:

[Imgur link if pics don't show for some reason: http://imgur.com/a/o6sRI ]

An easy way to calculate your total cost is through the use of Style Separators.



The support cost will be chosen by the overall height of the support.



To figure out the track cost, all you need to do is the length by the cost-per-height. This first one would be 135 (Rounded length) times 300 (height cost)



The next one would be 151 (Rounded length) times 600 (height cost)



This is how to do supports: the diameter will be rounded as well as length, but diameter is rounded to the nearest .1. so say you have 1.34, for the cost it would be 1.3, .50's will be rounded down.

So, for the footers it would be 15 (base footer cost) times the diameter multiplier of the current beam (in this case 60)
Beams will be similar but a bit more difficult. this is the beam cost formula: [(Diameter X Multiplier) X Support Length = Total Support Cost]

so, now that that's done, here's an example:
Footers: [15 X 60] X 2 = $1800
Beams: {[1.7 X 60] X 67} + {[1.6 X 60] X 68} = $13362
Total for this support: $15162



Now then as a whole this entire section is worth $376320. The calculations are included below



Track: {135 X 300} + {151 X 600} + {47 X 900} + {146 X 600} + {130 X 300} = $300000
Footers: 1500 + 3600 + 2100 = $7200
Support 1: [1.6 X 50] X 18 = $1440
Support 2: {[1.6 X 60] X 70} + {[1.7 X 60] X 65} = $13350
Support 3: {[1.8 X 70] X 145} + {[1.7 X 70] X 151} + {[1.7 X 70] X 31} = $39928
Support 4: {[1.6 X 60] X 68} + {[1.7 X 60] X 67} = $13362
Support 5: [1.6 X 50] X 13 = $1040

Total: $376320

My brain gave up halfway through reading this.

we should also do some more tight fit contest where it is all about a minium of like 10 inversions in less then a acre, with a height requirements and such like smiler>> this contest sounds cool but i dont think i could even come up with a track and such

[TTD03]

Rickrollercoaster wrote:

My brain gave up halfway through reading this.

Same with me, mine gave up after the first 5 lines

highthrills2 wrote:

we should also do some more tight fit contest where it is all about a minium of like 10 inversions in less then a acre, with a height requirements and such like smiler>> this contest sounds cool but i dont think i could even come up with a track and such

That'll be another contest for another day

[Turbo]

This topic is about finding the right balance and to make sure that people understand what this is going to be, if you have any questions please ask

[TTD03]

It's not that it's not understandable, it's just very confusing if you don't understand math very well

[Turbo]

multiplication and addition?

Turbo wrote:

multiplication and addition?

Sounds more like laziness than anything. There's nothing but simple arithmetic.

[TTD03]

Yep, pure laziness

I like the idea of adding flat costs to it - sounds like it's not really any work at all, and should help with getting a reasonably accurate cost.

[Turbo]

Update for the contest:
- The theming for the ride will be done by another contractor (Any 3Ds or scene objects can be added without the expense of your set budget since you are not the "firm" hired to pimp the ride out)
- This will be an inter-site contest. What exactly does this mean? Well it's simple: this will not be a single-site exclusive contest. Any participant can join without the need of using any other website! All you need to do as a participant is update on your preferred site and upload when finished! Of course you can always ask and I will do my best to respond to any questions you may have

NightwindElf wrote:

I think in terms of realistic cost, you have to consider labor costs.

Here's a list of things that cost money when building a coaster or any free standing structure

- Design engineers
- Manufacturing costs (materials, labor, machine use)
- Transportation of materials
- Construction labor
- Heavy equipment use (cranes, etc.)
- Loss of profit from closed portion of land
- Hiring/retraining park staff
- Maintenance
- Annual state inspection


I'm sure I'm missing something, but that's just about it from start to finish.

that's way to much. Just keep it simple guys. base prices off of heights and elements and length. Basically chop up costs like rct3 Inversions cost 100 elements 0ver 100' cost 100 elements over 200' cost 300. Like that. easier to keep track of and build. so a 205' cobra roll would cost 900. two inversions breaking 200' twice. Just keep it simple. No need to use rl costs. just set the budget appropriately.
If a hyper cobra roll coasts 900. Set the budget for the contest at 3k

I think more would go forr it if it doesn't get all technical

I feel adding all those in is a bit much, but like its been said those would be set costs so when starting you're still starting from $0 technically. Real life costs is the whole reason for this contest. In no limits we can build whatever we want but wouldn't be cool if we knew how much it would cost to build it in real life? Wouldn't it challenge what we consider realistic vs. fantasy?
On another note I'm still stuck on the length of the track being the more logical way to determine the cost of it, but I can see how the system you thought up would work in a similar way. like I said before this is an idea I've had for awhile but not a clue on how to use it so I'm glad that you guys are running with it, and making an abstract idea in my head an actual thing

[mkingy]

How will you deal with terraforming? And tunnels would need defining price wise.

Terraforming would fall under the land clearing cost. For example, 1 bulldozer can clear or terraform X square feet of land and costs $Y

[Turbo]

For this years contest you are not allowed to terraform, the park will already be beautified. Tree removal is acceptable

[mkingy]

So height of ride is determined from a base line or where the actual terrain is? cause I think you might need to rethink how you calculate the track height unless the template is flat.

[Turbo]

the area where the contestants will be building will be flat.

Any ideas of start dates for this?I hope I get my new monitor in time so that I can take part. This is a really cool, if slightly complex idea! I think that limitations to cost could make things really interesting design wise.