NL Team Teases WINGRIDERS!

+1 ^

I'm scripting illiterate, so them including them is a big thing for me, because Wing Coasters are my favorite. Everyone has their own reasons to be excited. Whether how long we waited, cool. I'm glad I'll have an accurate, well designed, Wing Coaster train.

and another ^+1

Main reason people get over excited for stuff like this, is because they love it, we all love coasters (I hope), so anything related gets our pants wet.
I honestly can't complain about a 50$-100$ program that I just love. Beats out any other sim (my opinion, I go for realism, that's what I'm into)
$50 is nothing for how much this game should cost. All the updates are just a bonus.


I have no complaints, only suggestions.

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LuckyK wrote:

For me getting excited about a wing coaster teaser now is like getting excited about getting my stuff back after a game of "keep away" after I already replaced it.

I didn't say anything about the quality of the wing coaster. I said the teaser is stupid. Just release it already

^ The thing is, this game is extraordinarily complicated. Yes, the wait is long, but

1) I don't think the price is unreasonable, considering in some ways this "game" is as advanced as professional programs which cost hundreds of dollars.

2) I don't think you can get upset about a timetable on a niche market game which has a small dev team and small fanbase. Honestly, compared to true games (like RCT) and true design programs, the demand is VERY small, and the dev team is small too.

I agree that providing feedback and critique is important, but slamming hard work that someone is doing mostly out of passion isn't the way to go about it. If this game had millions of downloads, and was flying off the shelves of every retailer in the world, then we can talk entitlement, but lets remember that NL2 isn't exactly mainstream.

As for the "they should have had x, y, or z" debates, no matter WHAT they included, someone was going to "desperately want" something that didn't get put in. There is some hype around wingriders, because they're very in fashion in the theme park world right now for some reason. Personally, I find them lacking and dull, and if I'm at CP, I won't be waiting in a line past 20 minutes for Gate Keeper (yet I'm willing to wait an hour + for rides there that are a decade or more older). I for one WASN'T waiting with baited breath for Wing Riders, but I sure won't complain now that they are here.

Just be glad this game is so heavily mod-able so that people CAN make the mods for "left out" coasters on their own, and then be glad that they eventually release updates for high-quality "real" versions of the ride free of charge.

Seriously, it's super uncommon these days for a game/program to release free content after-the-fact without either a pay-for DLC or pay-for expansion pack. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Oh, and SM was ahead of it's time, but there was a LOT lacking in it, and other than a few styles (which are either being added, or can be added by mods), I can't think of anything it does that NL2 doesn't also do better (which is fair, since NL2 is brand new and SM is very old).

[mkingy]

DrachenfireOP wrote:

<a fantastic quote i've removed to save forum space>

Summed my thoughts up perfectly, and much better than I could!

The impression I always get from people is that they don't see that a small team can only work on a limited amount of things. There have been a tonne of necessary bug fixes and optimisations to make the game more viable for more people and these take precedence over creating an accurate wing rider model and associated coding! Things will take time and the NL team always ensures whatever is produced is of high quality standard.

I'm personally not really interested in Wingriders, I just dont think its right to tell people they shouldn't be excited. as for the SM vs NL debate, all I'll say is that one of them still on the market and one of them isn't, that should speak for itself. To say the Dev team doesn't care about its customers is silly. There were many things that were asked for in NL2 that were essential to gameplay but were added anyway, scripting, switch tracks etc. How many of the simulations available to us have working switch tracks? Just NL2. and remember while it took 8 years to make and release the new version, 10 years ago it wasn't even being considered. Also wingriders aren't the only trains not included in the B&M product line( who haven't given NL rights to use their names btw) there are also the smaller dive trains(krake), and just recently the 2-across kiddie invert trains. and not to mention that wingriders were first introduced in the real world a few years after development already started for NL2. those new S&S free fly trains would be pretty great in an update too, I have a lot of ideas for that.

I know any time you don't jump with everyone it irks a lot of people lol. And most of the replies aren't even on the topic that I stated about the teasing for trains we should have already had.

But "just accept it and be grateful" doesn't work for products I have to buy lol. If you are selling and marketing, especially when you have a smaller consumer base, you cater to that base, not tell them to deal with what you give them and be grateful.

[Turbo]

That's not what they're saying at all lol, its what most people have come to accept from devs who actually listen to the community and do what people like in their extremely limited free time

[Paradox]

Yes, but if I waited a whole year for the major update, I would expect more than just one new train as there is a demand for many different styles.

[Mr. Freeze]

Very true. Now just have to wait and see what they have up there sleeves.

i think they should just do a tier release
the people with the 100$ copies get 10 new coaster styles and the 50$ ones only get the wing riders, that way the people who forked out get more and a better deal to upgrade and then we can wait another 2 years for a decent update to coasters and such in the sim.. and everyone is happy....

im just like why dont yall stop teasing and actually release it and some other stuff people have been requesting like a auto support gen that actually does what is suppose to do like lat bracing, proper structures, and inversions i guess and actually fix what they just overplayed from the nl1 and gimmick ed to make look new, cause the auto supports suck even now...

thats my 2 cents, now can we all start a petition to demand a release within a week that we can all sign or a petition to fix the sim and make it better or give us our $$ back and make it free and just add updates when they feel like it but it is free and we can all be happy

o and when is nl3 coming out

If another person complains about free content...

^Now all we need is photoshop to add a swiss army knife to it

LuckyK wrote:

But "just accept it and be grateful" doesn't work for products I have to buy lol. If you are selling and marketing, especially when you have a smaller consumer base, you cater to that base, not tell them to deal with what you give them and be grateful.

I disagree with this entirely. The dev team has been looking at the communities since the communities literally started. Have a look at some of the old NL2 idea topics to get a good picture of just how much the enthusiasts actually contributed in regards with ideas, realism and just the overall look and feel of the product.

That being said, the NL dev team is still looking to widen that consumer base. Which is way it??????s on steam and why these train models are getting done etc?????? Therefor the majority speaks and as the demand grows it begins to become feasible to add it to the product. Not only to keep us happy but to make the simulator more impressive for outsiders.

I was around for the development of Ultracoaster if anyone remembers that lol. Goes without saying for NL1 as well. And especially the packs that came out for it. The team was very responsive to NL1 and followed the forums for NL2 somewhat... Yet most of what was expected to be included didn't happen. And for 13 years in the making very simple things like a log out button shouldn't have been missed. I never took anything away from NL2 being a great program. But the customer service and interaction with the base has been very poor. And I'm not going to pretend like it hasn't. ALSO, it's not free if you have to buy it. That's the opposite of free.

They aren't volunteers doing this out of the goodness of their hearts for the love of fans, they are a business making capital. Why everyone acts like they are divine charity gods from coaster heaven are beyond me lol. If I told you I would buy you lunch, then didn't show up until next year, and then teased you about a sandwich I'm not giving you yet would you tell me how awesome I am?

[Paradox]

LuckyK wrote:

They aren't volunteers doing this out of the goodness of their hearts for the love of fans, they are a business making capital. Why everyone acts like they are divine charity gods from coaster heaven are beyond me lol. If I told you I would buy you lunch, then didn't show up until next year, and then teased you about a sandwich I'm not giving you yet would you tell me how awesome I am?

Best. Analogy. Evar.

^ I don't think it's a particularly good analogy, for a variety of reasons. I hate to keep engaging in negative discussions, but I do enjoy this game immensely, so I'd like to make sure that if devs are reading this conversation, they're not seeing predominant negativity for their work.

So since we decided to go for a restaurant analogy, here's one that would work better with the situation. You can't call it taking someone out to lunch, because we paid for the program. I think a better story would be that we all (the consumers) decided to go out to a nice restaurant together. Everyone ordered the meal they saw on the menu. Some people ordered a moderate meal (the $50 version), some people ordered a slightly fancier meal (the $100 version). We all get our food, and almost everyone is blown away with the food and the service. However, a few people at the table feel like they didn't get enough. They got everything they ordered as stated on the menu, but they believe they are entitled to more. They continue to harass the server and get a manager involved, and finally, the manager decides that he'll buy them a dessert on the house. Instead of being grateful for the free dessert, they complain that they didn't get enough dessert, the dessert took too long, and that THEY paid for an entree (which very clearly did not include anything which they did not receive), and think that for whatever reason, they are now entitled to a steady stream of free food now that they've paid for an entree. In addition to the free dessert, the manager decides to give them a discount coupon for more free food next year, and instead of realizing how special this is, and that most other restaurants in the industry do not do this, they complain for having to wait an entire year for another freebie, all of which they feel entitled to after paying for one entree. No where did it state that paying for an entree meant a steady stream of food, they just have that expectation in their own head.

When you move this discussion to restaurant terms, you start to realize how ludicrous the demands sound.

All of that said, I think we should all keep a few things in mind:

1) We DO NOT know the full content of the patch. It could just be wing-riders, there could be more content. We do not know for sure. Getting worked up over a "lack of content" is silly until we know what all of that content is.

2) They will release the content when it is ready. It is free. They do not gain anything from "holding out on us." They do not get bonus sales from the holidays if they wait for them. Pretty much anyone who wants this game has it. There may be a few people in the world waiting on wing-riders before purchasing, but I do not believe it would be an absurd assumption that I could count the world-wide number of individuals in that category on one hand. If we do not have a patch yet, it is because it is not ready. Pure and simple. I don't think getting worked up over a teaser is appropriate. It is not a "haha, look what you don't have," it is a "hey, we heard you wanted this, so we're making it for you and it's almost ready!" That's pretty awesome.

3) The differences between the "normal" version and the "pro" version are made very clear on the website. They are explicit that the "pro" version is quite literally about upgraded export and video options specifically intended for people in the industry. If this is not you, and you bought this version, that was your choice. I don't recall anywhere on the site claiming that the pro version would come with more coaster styles, now, or ever. I don't think that's a conversation even worth having. If you bought the pro version with that expectation in mind, you made a mistake.

4) No dev on any game is contractually obligated to make or not make anything they're discussing as a possibility. This is why most devs don't even talk about potential future upgrades. I like that this dev team does so on occasion, and I believe they do so because they expect a more mature community for this program than elsewhere in the gaming world. It would be nice if we upheld our end of that bargain. Sometimes the devs REALLY WANT to do something, but then learn the resources are beyond what they were expecting. This is an industry standard of all games. Yes, players can make mods, but usually those mods are of noticeably inferior quality. They are FANTASTIC for what they are, but I don't think they should be used to put down the devs who "took too long" on the real deal.

5) The gaming industry at large does NOT release free content these days. We live in the era of expansions, DLC, and micro-transactions. If you think your purchase of the main game automatically entitles you to free content updates, you're in for a real shock if you ever decide to play any mainstream game. The fact that NL2 is doing it puts them in the extreme minority. Don't put them down for providing a service basically no one else does.

6) The content released for this game is of a mind-boggling good quality. What few issues there are get patched often at regularly, and usually due to direct feedback from the community. I've never previously played a game where it is so easy to get in touch with the devs, and get a quick response. It's a small team. I don't have an expectation of a "better" timetable.

7) There is no way this game is providing a living wage for the devs. In order to provide one dev with a salary of $50,000 a year, they need to sell between 500-1000 copies a year, more because it's currently on sale. That does not include any non-wage expenses included in running a business, and game development has a TON of overhead. I don't know the actual sales numbers, but if this game is selling well enough to pay all overhead AND provide a living wage for the entire dev team, I would be very impressed. Do not forget what a niche market this game calls to.

Sorry to be so negative, but I think we should all be thankful and grateful for this product. Anything you want to be in this game beyond what currently is there is exactly that; a want. You bought the product. Live with it. If you want content in the game that isn't there, go put it in yourself. They left the option for you to do that. The game is complete, released, and paid for. They did not advertise anything that is not in the game. There is nothing on the site suggesting otherwise. You did not get ripped off, you got exactly what was advertised. Discussions of "future maybes" is NOT a promise or guarantee.

I for one have had my expectations exceeded with this game, and am blown away that they are providing free content upgrades periodically. If the upgrade quality of NL1's patches is any indication, we're in for a real treat down the line. I also don't appreciate being told that having a firm, realistic grasp on things, and enjoying the game as-is makes me "a sucker" or "someone who was willing to accept inferior quality content." If that's how you feel about yourself, then that's something you need to work out with yourself, and yourself alone.

^
Thank you for having the time and patience to explain it, you summed up my thoughts exactly.

And nick cage, thats the way to make a statement

So a teaser for wingriders being introduced just turned into a negative discussion?

Paradox wrote:

Best. Analogy. Evar.

The problem with that analogy is that it breaks down right here:

LuckyK wrote:

ALSO, it's not free if you have to buy it.

We knew the wingriders would probably get added sooner or later. Are you seriously going to cuss about buying an application that didn??????t live up to your own personal expectation with the updated free content?

Also don't forget, they're not going to specially take one individual wants and develope on them. So features that you think should be on the game, that arent, doesn't mean they should stop what they're doing because you want it.

lol I just continually said i don't like they put out a teaser, I'm not going to like it, and nobody should be this bent out of shape and running off on circumstantial tangents about what free is because I say I don't like a teaser. i love the "this isn't TPR comments", then when someone doesn't agree its TPR... Some people feel the way I do and some don't AND IT'S OKAY and shouldn't be a flame war every time we think differently as a site. at least my posts were on the thread topic about the teaser. If it was a teaser for a train they hadn't talked about since March it'd be totally different. They didn't even do teasers for NL2 lol they just showed pics. Just show the pics...

And for those complaining about the free content we get. We didn't get it, we got a teaser pic with no deadline

Lets all just sing FROZEN, let it go, let it go!


DrachenfireOP responded perfectly, if you don't get our side, then there's no point of back and forth anymore,
lets move on....


Is wingrider track wider or bigger than dive coaster track? or how different?
Also will the catwalk be realistic?