Wooden roughness

^ god bless. I honestly didnt find mean streak to be all that bad, but it certainly wasn't all that good either.

Turns tend to be the most difficult thing for manufacturers to produce well. On straight hills, since the boards are stacked vertically, they can just bend each layer over the ledgers (the parts of the structure that attach to the track(can be seen above on the picture of Yankee cannonball(it is the largest white beams crossing under the track))) and naturally form a smoother curve, especially today because the height of each ledger can be calculated perfectly to shape the track over top of. The reason these areas get rough is because if the ledgers are even a bit too far apart, the track between each ledgers can bend as the train passes over it forming potholes, that worsen over time. The reason newer coasters don't have this problem is because manufacturers know to do what is pictured below in areas of high gforce.

Old- almost the same ledger/structure spacing during high and low forces






New- More condensed structure and ledger spacing under high force track




That consistent spacing is what leads to vertical jackhammering, which most current manufacturers have solved by condensing structure under the track.

Blue= less dense
Black= more dense



The roughness from turns Freddie nailed with his description. Unlike valleys and hills that are straight, turning track must be carved by hand, because the boards cannot be just bent right or left. Some manufacturers are just more skilled at carving out the laid boards to make smooth turns. However as far as i can see thunderbolt at sfne uses the method used for straight track, and basically turns it on its side to make a flat turn. The boards instead are stacked horizontally on the track to shape a turn, and that ride has some very fast paced flat turns that ride very smoothly. Look really closely at the first pic below if you dont beleive me.



Result-

They did that on Camden's Big Dipper too. I don't know how well it holds up, doesn't seem to be conventional.




And adding more ledgers doesn't completely cure jack hammering. J2 has a very dense structure at the bottom of it's drops and its still (or was when I rode it) loaded with potholes.

I think the reason that it was done that way on older rides is because the simplicity of the geometry allowed for it. Nowadays, turns run along multiple planes, so simply turning the track sideways wouldn't help; it'd still have to be carved by hand in a different direction. Plus, the transition from vertical to horizontal boards needs an obvious geometric break between the turn and hill.

Nothing can really "completely cure" jackhammering, unfortunately. Wood still bends, and carving still has imperfections. And when you fly along tracks at 60 mph, the smallest imperfection will only be magnified with time.

^^Yeah that jackhammering is from slight imperfections in the ledgers that got worse over time. Im no expert, but it makes sense also that the more ledgers there are, the more imperfections that can occur and such. GCI i guess has done really well on perfecting all of their ledger placement. That ride i heard used to be pretty smooth when it opened.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Hahaha you said "high G's" and showed GCI's what a funny man

[jayman]

yeah. i am not going to lie.i didnt get to ride a gci till terminator, so maybe i need to ride more .. but ..
i was paying atention when roar was opening and i saw those trains and i was like " yess" and then i finally got to ride one, and i was like " wtf".. the train and track style that i thought would be a true throwback to the rides enthusiats wish they could have ridden seemed to make the new rides even tamer.
but i still liked it . but it was certainly no ghostrider ..

gwazi is by far still not smooth, even with the new trains that coaster still beats you and it still punches back on the turns,
i do agree that some coasters like el toro look like wood but are made of other stuff to make them smooth as glass and fun,
then theres the new tx giant which is now more a steel coaster then wood,
i like wood coasters, i just dont like them when they get to rough like rattler at sfft.

[gouldy]

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Hahaha you said "high G's" and showed GCI's what a funny man

Gwazi isn't as bad as it used to be.... its still very rough due to the florida humidity, its not exactly the best climate for a woodie.

Originally posted by dah137

Gwazi isn't as bad as it used to be.... its still very rough due to the florida humidity, its not exactly the best climate for a woodie.

i agree, but it does make the coaster fun, espically when it is super humid out

By god I know.... in the winter though when the humidity is down its pretty damn smooth.

To respond directly to the OP's post...
I've ridden Voyage for the last three seasons and it has definitely gotten worse. It's still really fun - it just beats you up in the process. It jackhammers in the back, but it's still more fun than painful in the front. As some people have said, I think the timberliners will really help, as I know Holiday World has tried retracking. The forces are just ridiculous on that ride, and the PTCs only seem to be making worse and worse...
El Toro is still ridiculously smooth, but it seems to skip the track on the first turn around once or twice, which is jolting when you're not expecting it. It seems to only be in the back, though.
As for GCIs, I've gotten on Prowler, Term-...I mean, Apocalypse, American Thunder, Thunderhead, Lightning Racer, Wildcat, and Roar. Roar is by and far the worst, and I always try to look at the bright side of wooden coasters. That being said though, I don't think Wildcat is unbearably rough as many do, and all of the newer ones (2000 to now) are not noticeably rough.

And to all the posters that wrote those explanation on rough track, thanks! That was seriously enlightening!

dah137 wrote:

u mean New Texas Giant? I prefer to think of it as a totally new breed of coaster. I dont think it is a wooden coaster, but I dont think it is a steel coaster either.

RMC has two types of track: IBox and Topper. IBox is entirely steel, Topper has steel on top and wood on the bottom. Coasters with IBox track (including New Texas Giant) are absolutely, 100% steel coasters, as whether a coaster is Wood or Steel is defined by the material of the track. The material of the support structure is irrelevant. Voyage, for example, has a steel supporting structure but it's a wooden coaster because the track is made of wood.

Topper track, on the other hand, could be considered either wood or steel. Outlaw Run and SFGAm's Goliath use it.

Christ what is it with reviving all these wooden coaster threads from 2011.

There is something I feel is being overlooked. WEATHER! weather can greatly effect the smoothness of a woodie. the wood expands and contracts to temperature and MOISTURE. unlike steel coasters, wood is greatly effected by temp. and moisture and you can really tell if you ride one on a cold dry day vs. a hot humid day. after the flood at Valleyfair last year and Renegade being half underwater for a couple weeks I rode it and it was amazingly smooth, almost like the wood soaked up a ton of water and expanded to fill any gaps.

[Paradox]

I've heard Renegade was extremely rough compared to other GCI's.

Wildcat at LC takes your virginity, but it was built in 1927 so it's a classic!

dah137 wrote:

So after having ridden about a gazzilion steel coasters, ive started to focus more on woodies since i havent ridden that many. The best Ive ridden so far is Gwazi, but all of them are very rough which is of course part of the fun. but i was wondering how rough by comparison are rides such as the voyage, el toro, and the new texas giant, or even the newer GCI's. Im really curious to see how newer technologies on wooden coasters stack up. has anyone ridden any of these rides? are they really smoother?

I've ridden coasters from the 1920's smoother than Gwazi, love the layout but it's not a high standard as far as even old coasters go lol. The layout is amazing though, just not taken care of well

[TTD03]

Oscar won't agree, but I think that GhostRider at Knotts is really rough, and and Apocalypse at SFMM is a fun rough.

[Dirk_Ermen]

TTD03 wrote:

Oscar won't agree, but I think that GhostRider at Knotts is really rough, and and Apocalypse at SFMM is a fun rough.

Ghostrider is rough, but it's a fun rough. Too bad about the extreme trims on the midcourse tho. It totally killed the awesomeness of the 2nd part of the ride.

Paradox wrote:

I've heard Renegade was extremely rough compared to other GCI's.

Renegade used to be quite rough, but during the 2013-2014 offseason, they retracked a lot of the rough sections of track, and it really paid off. Of course, it's still not butter smooth, but I can now marathon it without getting a headache . Also, I found the 2014 mid-season flooding to have no effect on the ride quality/smoothness.

[TTD03]

Dirk_Ermen wrote:

TTD03 wrote:

Oscar won't agree, but I think that GhostRider at Knotts is really rough, and and Apocalypse at SFMM is a fun rough.

Ghostrider is rough, but it's a fun rough. Too bad about the extreme trims on the midcourse tho. It totally killed the awesomeness of the 2nd part of the ride.

Yea true, the trims did kill the ride