Merlin found at fault for Smiler accident

This topic needs a poll - "optimistic or pessimistic" for The Smiler's comeback. This accident is so shocking we should not forget.

[Goku1910]

One thing not taken into account is time. Do you guys think the time limit between blocks is what triggered the trouble light? Usually if a train hits one proxy but doesn't hit the next one within a certain amount of time it triggers a stop.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Mikey wrote:

Coasterkidmwm wrote:

Does Six Flags allow bottom-tier ride ops to clear errors?

No, they can't even unlock the restraints when a trouble light happens. There are some ride specific exceptions to this policy but all of those involve unloaded units and a safety check procedure.

Oh I didn't know it was that strict. I used that stupid lever tool with the awkward rectangle shaped end on it a bunch of times to get people out during a power failure. I hope they're at least allowed to restart the lift and stuff.

Also I need to clarify my earlier statement. Ride supervisors (their businessy term for the manager of Ride X, not the manager of all managers in lets say Area Y that happens to contain Ride X among other rides), are allowed to clear errors, not simpleton employees (then again I did it once or twice under direction in the morning during block tests).

[slosprint]

Mikey wrote:

While this sounds like a solution that would be easy to implement, ride computers are not like your home PC. Think of a ride computer as a giant calculator. It's very good at giving you correct data reliably so long as the inputs are correct, but if you take the battery out, use the clear button then all the data you just entered is lost. PLCs are very simpleton, they have no persistent storage outside of a flash card that a working program is written. The PLC cannot write to this card, but it can output data to a separate storage for logging but it can't ready back data from the system it outputs to.

PLCs use lader logic as a programing language. The program is stored in flash and loaded when the PLC_START function is called. When a safe stop needs to occur, a PLC_STOP function is called. This unloads all data from memory. By default if power is removed, the PLC reverts to PLC_STOP until PLC_START is called in a start up sequence. There is no way to preserve the set values once a reset has commenced. You can only check against the existing values you have at start up.

I know this sounds like a limitation, but these controllers are designed to handled millions of cycles and do so with out fault or error. They have been trusted in service for over 35 years.

While I understand where you're coming from, and respect your experience in the industry and knowledge of these topics, I think this might be a sign that its time to update these systems. Let's face it, when an accident happens in the airline industry, measures are taken to ensure that the same problem never happens again, for instance when a hornet made a nest in a Pitot tube of an airline, causing the pilot to get faulty readings and crash the plane, the co-pilot was getting accurate readings from his own tube. This made it standard to not only install several more redundant tubes to future airlines, but make it so the crew could choose exactly which tubes' readings to display in the cabin.

While this kind of accident is unique, unless measures are implemented to prevent it happening again, probability states that it WILL happen again, maybe not in this decade or the next, but again nonetheless. Using another airline example, just look up the cargo door issue on DC-10s.

I'm not trying to be alarmist, but rides are getting more and more complex in terms of components and number of trains, and issues like this are sure to arise again. You've seen how panicked this has caused the public to be about ride safety, and it is clear that they hold the amusement industry to a MUCH higher standard than pretty much any other. Hell, tens of thousands of people die on the road in the US alone every year, and yet the one major accident in amusement parks this year which i can name, which resulted in no fatalities, has the public in an uproar demanding the ride be torn down. Instead of calling them panicked and unreasonable (which they might be), I think it's entirely possible to meet the standards which they put up, and to be honest I think that would be better for everyone.

[Coasterkidmwm]

The schwarzkopfs used a similar or more primitive system on their rides that were capable of running 6 goddamned trains at once. I don't see how number of trains would be an issue here.

[mkingy]

more sensors required I think.

Believe it or not, an article I just read says that management is actually considering scrapping the ride. I personally think it's just the media overhyping things, but the ride has had problems in the past...

[Paradox]

Honestly just add some LIM's or something to the bottom of the valley to give the ride a slight speed boost.

[Coasterkidmwm]

Coaster Hero wrote:

Believe it or not, an article I just read says that management is actually considering scrapping the ride. I personally think it's just the media overhyping things, but the ride has had problems in the past...

Honestly I do recall Demon reopening after Demon decided to liven up the area by breaking an axle and jamming it into the loop track to stall the train upsidedown. It reopened later after a couple of months and people were like "lol we're gonna get stuck in the loop and die" for a bit and then they pretty much forgot.

[mkingy]

Saw at Thorpe Park has also been closed "an additional set of safety protocols and procedures" are introduced.

source: http://news.sky.com/story/1496893/alton ... ajor-rides

Mikey wrote:

slosprint wrote:

stuff about newfangled computers

stuff about PLCs and robustness

Mikey do you think it's at all possible that this system is almost too new? Like maybe they tried to use a different kind of control system than the industry convention? It seems to have been having a lot more problems than most coasters, even compared to the breakdown kings at cedar point. Just wondering.

Also. I highly doubt they will "scrap" it. An ???18 million brand new steel roller coaster won't get demolished. It simply won't. It very well may stand SBNO until the hype dies down in two and a half weeks and a serious computer system overhaul is attempted by Gerstlauer or someone else. This might give them the window they needed to attempt a system reliability improvement. It'll open back up to the public--I have to ride it! People will still ride it. *Hopefully* it will end up being like RCT where people will just stand there saying "I'm not going on The Smiler--It isn't safe!" even though all coasters with two or more trains have roughly the same risk of something like this happening. This way, the line will be shorter!

[JAMMY]

Dragons Fury and Rattlesnake at Chessington World Of Adventures are also closed for the foreseeable future while new safety protocols are introduced. Do Gerstlauer supply the PLC system to Maurer?

Either way, I'm sure the one of the new protocols will involve ensuring all empty test trains return to the station or next available block section before any passengers are allowed on board, and that now ride systems may be used in manual/technical mode when passengers are on board.

[mkingy]

Why is Spinball still open in that case though :S

[JAMMY]

mkingy wrote:

Why is Spinball still open in that case though :S

Just saw the Nick Varney interview on the news and apparently the Chessington closures are due to a more complex computer system needing the additional training and protocols implemented. I can only assume that Sonic Spinball is using a slightly different PLC system that does not require any new protocols being put into place.

Also, Alton Towers will remain closed again tomorrow.

[mkingy]

Just realised how insanely stupid my comment was. Alton Towers isn't even open so Sonic Spinball isn't either by default haha. I imagine they'll be trained for the opening of Alton Towers.

I mean, Mindbender is still open, right?

[Paradox]

I feel so bad for Nick Varney right now. And you thought Fox News was bad.

I want to crack a board over that bitch's head...

I don't even have words right now... holding back some very colorful profanities towards that... news host... Was barely even an interview, more like a full blown attack coming from somebody who knows nothing. Props to him for holding his ground though, he handled it the best he could.

"Is that what you're saying? Is that what you're saying? Is that what you're saying?"...."um, no..."

I have never in my life witnessed someone act like that much of a bitch.

Paradox wrote:

I feel so bad for Nick Varney right now. And you thought Fox News was bad.

I was literally facepalming through a lot of that interview. She was awful and needs to be fired.

[Paradox]

rtrudy wrote:

"Is that what you're saying? Is that what you're saying? Is that what you're saying?"...."um, no..."

"let me interrupt you there. This is an interview and not a statement"

[Coasterkidmwm]

tiepilot35 wrote:

I have never in my life witnessed someone act like that much of a bitch.

Yes you have. You've heard a recording of yourself at some point.

^burn

Seriously though, I couldn't even listen to the whole thing. That reporter was going for blood in that "interview"(more like an interogation) haha