Cedar Point Recreation

[Coasterkidmwm]

Hey guys I claimed Rougarou.

Wish your best luck!

Pay attention to the heartline. That's usually the hardest part of a B&M to get right.

Hey guys,

Not-so-recently I have made an Instagram page for this project! If you wanna see some awesome shots of progress, go follow @projectcedarpoint . Thanks!

~Toilet

Corkscrew?

^DerMuffinMaker is currently working on the ride.

[TallonD83]

Gemini is kicking my tail....tough coaster to get right when you haven't ever ridden it :/

Time to see Millennium Force "not" recreated by AyTrane! Finally!

TallonD83 wrote:

Gemini is kicking my tail....tough coaster to get right when you haven't ever ridden it :/

I can help with testing, I ride that all the time. Time to get back to work on raptor V5001349983499. B&Ms are hell to get right, but I think I know what most of my problem was. It isn't heartlined.

You told ckidmwm to pay attention to Rougarou's heartline and then made a Raptor without heartlining?

I was originally set to recreate Maverick, but I am afraid that I am too busy to work, and won't be free for a while. So I am opening up the Maverick slot again! Hope I can still contribute in some way

I Skype'd you toilettalker, but you didn't respond

I would take Maverick, but I would have to wait about a month to get a NL2 again. If the slot is still available by then, i'll gladly take it.

By the way, who's doing MF and TTD? There are already 2 perfect recreations available, but the creator's are not around so much anymore

[Coasterkidmwm]

tiepilot35 wrote:

You told ckidmwm to pay attention to Rougarou's heartline and then made a Raptor without heartlining?

It will be a recolored recreation of Mantis with different brakes, because that's all Rougarou is.

Yeah, the heartline is obviously no different from Mantis, which is probably why Rougarou's trains look a bit higher up than other floorless coasters according to a lot of people who rode

Coasterkidmwm wrote:

tiepilot35 wrote:

You told ckidmwm to pay attention to Rougarou's heartline and then made a Raptor without heartlining?

It will be a recolored recreation of Mantis with different brakes, because that's all Rougarou is.

No I understand that's what you'll be doing, it makes sense and will be accurate. I was commenting about how CoasterGuy2000 in an earlier post authoritatively warned you about paying attention to B&M heartlining and then in a later post sounded as though he said he recreated Raptor without heartlining, which would be inaccurate. It just sounded really oddly contradictory to me. I may be misinterpreting the verbage.

What I meant is that B&M don't heartline their rides all the way through. Raptor only has a heartline for the zero-g roll, the rest of the ride, or nearly all of it, banks around the center of rail. I haven't looked a rougarou much but it would have to be made using a standup coaster heartline, and possibly no heartline at some points.

I don't believe that is true CoasterGuy2000. I think it's just more obvious on a 0G roll because the shape the heartline follows is very simple and because there is a lot of banking along that simple shape.

There's a few other parts of the ride that do use a heartline (Transition into the helix before the MCBR, Turn before second helix) but the majority of the ride isn't. I went up there last week to look at it more closely and get a better feel for pacing.I didn't take any pictures though and there aren't many pictures that show it very well but this is the best I could find.
The trasition out of the helix. That snap into the brake run isn't heartlined either.


It's a lot more noticeable from off ride but I couldn't find any from a useful angle

^Still good to know your still making Raptor

[TallonD83]

Someone needs to take over Gemini, I cannot get that right.

I can help tweak trackwork and supports based on pictures, but creating a ride I have never ridden is NOT going well.

CoasterGuy2000, without being 100%, I'm pretty certain that information is incorrect. Again, just because you can't really see the heartline doesn't mean it isn't heartlined. There's almost no way to tell if there isn't a lot of banking, and some areas look a little different than what might be expected since it's inverted.

Also as a suggestion, careful with how you present arguments. I consider myself to be someone who knows a lot about coaster design, at least as it relates to No Limits...in real life that means nothing, but at least it counts for something here...but notice that I phrased my last post about heartlining to show I didn't know 100%. A lot of people on these coaster sites say things I know are untrue, and their diction suggests otherwise. Then people start to repeat these things, incorporate these inaccurate notes into their designs, etc. It goes downhill pretty quick, and I've seen it all the time since I started NL in 2003. Sooo unless you've seen something from B&M I suggest not writing as if you know for certain.

Not a huge deal, I'm sure I make the same mistake sometimes. Just a thought.

CoasterGuy2000 wrote:

There's a few other parts of the ride that do use a heartline (Transition into the helix before the MCBR, Turn before second helix) but the majority of the ride isn't. I went up there last week to look at it more closely and get a better feel for pacing.I didn't take any pictures though and there aren't many pictures that show it very well but this is the best I could find.
The trasition out of the helix. That snap into the brake run isn't heartlined either.


It's a lot more noticeable from off ride but I couldn't find any from a useful angle

The heartline's there in the snap into the brake run. It's more noticeable in the back car in a middle seat. If you keep your head back, your head won't move at all. It may not be as pronounced as the NL2 default, but it's definitely there. When you're on the lift hill, you can look down on that transition and see it. Bonus observation: The top of the left rail doesn't have as much wear as the rest of the rails because the road wheel doesn't touch it in that transition.

The zero-G roll also is heartlined.

dcs221 wrote:

CoasterGuy2000, without being 100%, I'm pretty certain that information is incorrect. Again, just because you can't really see the heartline doesn't mean it isn't heartlined. There's almost no way to tell if there isn't a lot of banking, and some areas look a little different than what might be expected since it's inverted.

Also as a suggestion, careful with how you present arguments. I consider myself to be someone who knows a lot about coaster design, at least as it relates to No Limits...in real life that means nothing, but at least it counts for something here...but notice that I phrased my last post about heartlining to show I didn't know 100%. A lot of people on these coaster sites say things I know are untrue, and their diction suggests otherwise. Then people start to repeat these things, incorporate these inaccurate notes into their designs, etc. It goes downhill pretty quick, and I've seen it all the time since I started NL in 2003. Sooo unless you've seen something from B&M I suggest not writing as if you know for certain.

Not a huge deal, I'm sure I make the same mistake sometimes. Just a thought.

B&M changes the heartline in their coasters sometimes, at least it seems so visually. On Raptor (Gardaland) the heartline roll seems to bank around the center of the rail, but I could be wrong because the heartline of wingriders is low to begin with. I'm not 100% sure of course, but just an observation.

dcs221 wrote:

CoasterGuy2000, without being 100%, I'm pretty certain that information is incorrect. Again, just because you can't really see the heartline doesn't mean it isn't heartlined. There's almost no way to tell if there isn't a lot of banking, and some areas look a little different than what might be expected since it's inverted.

Also as a suggestion, careful with how you present arguments. I consider myself to be someone who knows a lot about coaster design, at least as it relates to No Limits...in real life that means nothing, but at least it counts for something here...but notice that I phrased my last post about heartlining to show I didn't know 100%. A lot of people on these coaster sites say things I know are untrue, and their diction suggests otherwise. Then people start to repeat these things, incorporate these inaccurate notes into their designs, etc. It goes downhill pretty quick, and I've seen it all the time since I started NL in 2003. Sooo unless you've seen something from B&M I suggest not writing as if you know for certain.

Not a huge deal, I'm sure I make the same mistake sometimes. Just a thought.

Ok. First off, I feel I should apologize for what I said before. It was stupid and arrogant to act like that. I should've found proof that it was true (Or false) before posting anything. So that's what I have done know. As I was working on the recreation itself (First round of trackwork is fully complete, expect and update sometime this week) I decided to not pay attention to heartlining to much. Instead I made sure the track followed the overlay as closely as possible. It was designed with the heartline on because its easier to take it out than put it in. Anyway, as you can see in the picture below,(Transition from helix to the turn into the brake run. Same area as the picture as before.) the heartline (yellow Line) banks moves around the track while the track remains in a straight line.

This shows that it is in fact, not heartlined. If it was it'd look something like this

Notice how in this, the heartline stays relatively straight (The curve is do to this being a quick example) and the track bends around it.

Of course, that could just mean that I designed it incorrectly, but I think it's correct. If not could someone please point that out to me so I can fix it and check again. (P.S. There are other places you can see this but this is just an easier example.)