I saw The Passion of Christ today.

[Kev]

Proof?!??!!? Here's yer proof.... http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/ ... index.html

Proof that you guys have been beating this dead horse for way too long now.

I just came back from watchin the movie...Very intense. I sat there in shock from all the torture and turned my head away from all the gore...I couldn't hang with it. It was a good movie. As for religion, I think everyone has thier own beliefs and we can't force our beliefs onto other people, insisting we are 100% correct.

No one has proven anything in this topic. A scientific theory cannot really ever be proven. Even scientific "laws" are subject to change, an example being the law of gravity, which can break down in extreme situations. Here is what I have seen looking back through the thread.

Scientific evidence for evolution.
Scientific evidence against creationism.
Scientific evidence against evolution. (the majority of the "proof" of Creationists)
Evidence for Creationism (the Bible and ICR's claims about Noah's Flood)

Nowhere have I seen proof. Saying that evolution is wrong is not proving that Creationism is right, and vice versa. As with just about any scientific subject, there are conflicting views and evidence for both sides. The more widely held viewpoint is evolution, but the Creationists charge that this is a kind of propaganda/brainwashing type thing. Although I believe that the pro-Creation evidence I have seen here is mostly poor and biased science, the people who do the research do have credentials, so I can't just come out and say that it's crap. You must respect the research done in favor of evolution as well, however, if you want to bring science into this.
Basically, if you are looking to prove your beliefs, don't use science because science can never prove anything. The universe is infinite, so every possibility that can exist, may exist. If there are any universal scientific laws, we have not found them yet.

About Evoltuion being taught as a theory, everytime I have learned about it in school it has been forced upon me as a fact. Protesting it results in a failing grade. Sounds like its taught as a fact to me!

Once in high school Latin class I had to take a test about Greek gods and goddesses. If I didn't give the names and functions of the Greek gods, I would have failed the test. Did this make me feel like they were forcing pagan religion on me? No.

I havn't seen any evidence that supported Evolutionism that was any better than the evidence provided supporting Creationism.

About your Latin class, of course they weren't forcing that religion on you. The two situations don't relate at all. They didn't tell you to believe in the Greek gods, they just asked you to remember what the Greeks believed...they never said that the Greek gods actually existed and to believe in them, which is what public schools teach about evolution. If they did tell you that the greek gods did exist and to believe in them, thats one messed up class.

ok, intaminfan. this is what is commonly known as "propoganda" as soon as they quote the bible, or any other religious thing, you know that they are trying to convert you into a beliver. now, they had no facts in these links. just a whole lot of incomplete evidence and big words.

first off, they say there is no link between sponges and one celled organisms. well, i hate to break it to ya, but a sponge is a colony of one celled organisms! so, naturally there would be no link.

also, fossilization is extremely rare in the world. we have mabey a million fossils in the world (that we have found) out of the hundreds of billions of animals that existed over time. so, if anyone had a complete bloodline of any given species, not only would it be rare, but its just soo unbelievibly unlikely that it will probably never happen.

also, they still have given no proof for creation, just enough for a rather naiive person to become skeptical of evolution. and no, i do not count anything from the bible as proof.

". Never do we see stars evolving from gas. Evolutionists, in order to save their mathematical models, propose imaginary cold, dark matter comprising 90% of the mass of the universe. The search for black holes continues."
now to explain this thing: stars do evolve from gas. its a fact. its been observed. gravity forces the gas to come together and eventually it ignites and makes a star. (needs to be very very dense) and for "cold" and "dark" matter. first off, cold matter doesnt exist as a theory or in real life. second, dark matter is just the theoretical amount of matter you would need to have enough gravity for the universe to collapse back in on itself. without dark matter, the universe would keep expanding. and by expanding, i mean that the matter and energy would keep spreading out. the universe is not a physical thing with a clear border for where the edge is. dark matter, as of now, does not exist. its almost the same idea as einstein's cosmological constant.
and black holes have been prooven to exist and are now recognized as a normal occurance in nature. however, we do not yet know exactly what happens to the matter that gets pulled in by a black hole.. its very odd and i can understand how you may not belive in them. but they do exist.

"Neither view can be proved in an absolute sense. But of the two competing historical views, creation is far more credible"
they end the article with this statement. yet they do not give sources so i cant take it as fact or not. as far as the average person is concerned, the credibility does not exist.

also, the little thing that says "matter resulted from nothing" is just complete bull. what do you think E=MC2 means? that equation explains the chang from matter to energy, and it is done regularly in labs, its also known as "the atom bomb" just ask the residents of nagasaki if they belive matter can be turned into energy and vise versa.

my sources: the science channel
the discovery channel
the learning channel
www.discovery.com
"the universe in a nutshell" by steven hawking
"einstein's reletivity"(forgot author)
SETI
my biology class
my chemestry class
my biology and chemistry books
my earth science class
EPCOT center (mission space)
and finally, NASA

with the stuff that the evolution theory and the big bang theory proove and contain, we use for every day tasks. like nuclear and atomic bombs. astronauts going in space, the entire satellite system, etc etc. now, with the creation story in the bible, not only is there still no evidence outside the bible, but you cant do anything with the information. so, in conclusion, you still have yet to provide (non-biblical) proof of creation.
to me, the creation issue is just a bunch of christians trying to force their religion on one another. all abrahamic religions try to do this. its really annoying. but yeah, evolution has evidence, creation has the bible. its nothing more than that.

i saw the passion yesterday......man.......i cringed everytime he took a hit, that was just aweful. Its a good, movie, people should go see it, but if you have a weak stomach, be warned.... As for this debate, like i said earlier, no one is convincing anyone of anything, its practically pointless, and still, it seems to me that either side has yet to link any of their "proof" to a clear statement that links everything together. We arnt sure if the bible is true, so we cant really use that as proof, and we just formed from the collision of giant rocks, that makes a lot of sense, we evolved from some organisms... that makes sense too (being sarcastic). Those pro evolution, tell me, the earth started out with tiny organisms, how and why did those organisms change, to aquatic animals, then to amphibians, then to dinosaurs, to mamals, to humans..... explain please.

I guess people are re-assured by the bible, in a sense that although they may not believe in any religion, they have faith in God and i guess you could take it to the extreme that they have a purpose after they die.
aint got anything else to say...

all i know is that i'm litterally the worst person to get into an argument with. i have never lost an argument lol. i dont give up [;)]

[coolbeans326]

This topic has gone on way too long, could you guys just let this thing die??? I post something about a movie and three weeks later, as alive and kicking. PS, It's not that gory, It's just bloody, blood & gore are two different things, one is red liquid, the other is intestines, hearts, livers, spleends, ect. But the torture scene was pretty cool, I was watching it and I was all like, How did they do that??? I didn't look away though, I was thinking about but then the camara cut back to someone else, then it cuts back to Jesus and the Romans flogging him, and ripping him apart. Pretty sick stuff, but really interesting.
Also Kev, I'm not that surprised that a new movie has beaten The Passion in the box office, The Passion isn't one of those movies you come back for more, It's a great movie and all, it's just really touchy.

[Kev]

Dude, I wasn't making any point with the link I provided, other than I can't believe everybody's still arguing about this. Just trying to lighten the mood a little bit, I guess. [;)]

there havent been any really good comedies out recently.. there should be. and i think passion crossed the line from bloody to gory, it showed his skin flying off during the flogging. and the crucifixion was brutal too.

all of this talk and stuff really makes me want to see it, lol, i think alot of people feel that way, just because its so conturversial(sp) is why people want to see it so bad, at least i do anyway.

i just wanted to see it because i was wondering what was soo controvercial about it.. and now that i saw it. i know exactly why. its most likely the best movie ever made!

Originally posted by Kev

Proof?!??!!? Here's yer proof.... http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/ ... index.html

Proof that you guys have been beating this dead horse for way too long now.

One guy rises from the dead: good.
Lots of guys rising from the dead: better.

Haha@last thing.

Anyways, coaster992001, you have still yet to convince me, and I doubt I will convince you. Whats to say that your sources arent biased? I think it is a good idea to put the debate here on hold for now, as we don't seem to be getting anywhere. I still see no proof at all that I came from an ape, or that any of evolution other then some simple adaptation exists at all. Adaptation yeah, but not to the extreme of coming form an amoeba to a human. I still think its ludicris, you still think what I believe is ludicris. We can go on and on giving "proof" one way or the other, and always shooting down the other person's proof. I've got proof, enough for me. I also have faith, and I will end with that.

Though I should point out that a man named Jesus lived and died on a cross about 2000 years ago.............disprove that.[;)]

[Oscar]

Also can't expect me to believe that he made tons of bread out of one loaf of bread [:p]

LOL! It's true!

Originally posted by WeeWeeSlap

Also can't expect me to believe that he made tons of bread out of one loaf of bread [:p]

Well, you can believe he didn't if you want, but I believe that it really was God's son Jesus and he did miracles. People also witnessed Jesus walking the Earth after he rose from the dead. Diss it if you want, but I have faith in it, and if you don't have faith in Jesus then you aren't saved.

Yep I think intaminfan and I beleive the same thing there.....I have faith that it all happened. If God is really that powerful, he could have easily made that much bread.

Yeah, too bad he stopped with the miracles like 2000 years ago...but I guess no one has really been starving since then...

Nevermind that the bread thing violates the law of conservation of matter, which before was used to "prove" evolution is false.

God can violate any law he wants.....He made them all up didn't he? Cmon now, He is God, He can do whatever He wants!

Sound absurd? Not to me.....

[Oscar]

but I guess no one has really been starving since then...

Ask third world countries that, ask the hobos livings in the US that. You'll see that there are millions starving all over the world.

People also witnessed Jesus walking the Earth after he rose from the dead.

There have been people in this workd today that have been deckared clinically dead that have been brought back to life by the science of medicine. So other people are risen from the dead and walked. Faith in Jesus, or faith in something people say jesus did? Those are two different things now...

Originally posted by WeeWeeSlap
Ask third world countries that, ask the hobos livings in the US that. You'll see that there are millions starving all over the world.

it was sarcasm man![B)]

[Oscar]

woops

errm.. does anyone know exactly how he died? yes he was crucified, but after death on the cross, the romans used to stab the victims in the chest and side to make sure they were dead. it was impossible to survive a crucifixion. i belive that jesus did do something. christianity went through hundreds of years before actually being accepted. did jesus do everything he is said to have done? probably not. but he must have done something to recive such fame and recognition.

and nightride: you seem to have ended the debate. I WIN!!!! HAHAHA!! i'm weird like that, i always have to get the last word or be right [;)] yes its immature, but hey, its a pet peeve of mine... i win [:)]..yay


also, to whoever said it: miracles have been done since christ lived. to become a saint, performing 3 miracles that cannot be explained by anythin other than divine interventon is one qualification. and every saint i know of lived after christ [:)]