Lesson in Rating??

OK folks, look, I can take the rates as I do not care much about this track (it only took like 10 hours to do) ... but folks really need to learn how to rate.

http://www.coastercrazy.com/track_exchang ... p?tid=5651

The rate by j61264 on 10/18/2004 is absolute crap and does not justify anything.

I am not asking for anyone to fix this (so don't), but I think it is time to explain to people HOW to rate and why a one liner cannot account for 5 missing points ... unless the track is stolen, or is a total death machine. Ya know?

[Oscar]

and this is a discussion in staff right now to raise the min amount of characters in ratings.
WWS

^ And when someone uploads a nonworking file?... [;)]

I think the best solution is just to tell the creators to report a rate that doesn't say enough. If they don't do it, that's their problem. [;)]

If my idea still makes things too lose, then I guess you can go with your thing then...

if someone can't open a file they should pm the creator seperately so s/he can sort it out. I think rating all 0.5s cos u can't open the coaster is unfair anyway. that minimum characters idea should help with it though.

[Brtnboarder495]

I think members should rate the track for what it is and not for what they think it should be. They complain its too short, oh well its short, so is TTD but its still popular and exhilarating to ride.

Originally posted by WeeWeeSlap

and this is a discussion in staff right now to raise the min amount of characters in ratings.
WWS

Minimum of 600 characters ... that should kill the crapola and set up the filter so there no more than 2 consecutive letters can be used (like LL). LOL

Oh yeah .. you wanna really make a difference? How about you cannot rate unless you have uploaded at least three tracks yourself? This way those raters have to at least prove SOME sort of competence in order to judge other tracks. And posting just some junk track (like a circle track for example) ought to be scrutinized or deleted for wasting bandwidth. Hey, I'll volunteer to police that area! LOL

Thanks WWS ... appreciate ya.

Oh yeah .. you wanna really make a difference? How about you cannot rate unless you have uploaded at least three tracks yourself? This way those raters have to at least prove SOME sort of competence in order to judge other tracks. And posting just some junk track (like a circle track for example) ought to be scrutinized or deleted for wasting bandwidth. Hey, I'll volunteer to police that area! LOL

Thanks WWS ... appreciate ya.

This came up somewhere else, Ill copy my response to that theory...

Alot of people I know understand roller coasters. They understand how they are built, work and function. Yet, they cannot for the life of them get the NoLimits editor. Not even with hours of help. For instance, Haux has spent the last 2 years at CP and ridden Raptor over 500 times. Hes also been there in the mornings for the walks and spent just about every waking breath around 16 roller coasters, I think he understands how they are built.

But, I spent quite a bit of time with him trying to teach him the ins and outs of the Beziers system and he just didnt get it. Does that mean hes not entitled to a VERY picky rating? No. There are plenty of people like him who ride roller coasters all the time and also analyze the real ones, understanding their shapes and such. Just because they dont understand a program doesnt make them incapable of picking apart a coaster in NL.

In fact, some of the best raters are those who have ridden a wide assortment and a vast number of coasters. They may not even build in NL, but from all their riding time they can easily distinguish between good and bad rides. Seuss is another very good example, he doesnt care much for building, but, hes very knowledgable when it comes to roller coasters, considering he opped them for quite some time and pretty much lived on them.


This also applies to ohter things...

So if you cannot skateboard, should you not be allowed to watch the X Games?
How about American Idol. I dont remember seeing Simon as a superstar...but hes the main judge of what a superstar is.
Go to the art museum much? In order to get in you should have to present your own portfolio.

I could go on and on with these comparisons...


The point is that some people cannot grapple the way the editor works, yet, they fully understand and know how a coaster should look and feel. Also some know what a good coaster is and isnt. Not all feedback too has to be pertained directly to how the ride is built...people can give feedback on the adrenaline or just how the ride rides, not just how its built from a techincal standpoint.

Hopefully I didnt come off in a mean way, it wasnt intended as such. The ideas been brought up before and it doesnt make much sense.

You make an excellent point, real. I am one of those people that has ridden a fair number of coasters but lacks a good grasp of the NL editor (I like numbers too much!) I think that people are entitled to their own opinions, within moderation. It's very possible that one person can absolutely love a ride while the next person absolutely despises it. just my two cents.

Well, one real improvment would be to allow comments without a rating. I see no reason not to allow these.

[Oscar]

Originally posted by Tyler

Well, one real improvment would be to allow comments without a rating. I see no reason not to allow these.

more importantly is to get my developer together and time to do it. Time is of the essense. Trust me, that is one thing I value greatly here as we live in different time zones and work and go to school so our time is VERY limited. I could outsource it, but then we are faced with the problem of funding, if people donated more often then we'd have money to hire someone to do it. Altisdesign is in college and overloaded with work, let alone manages and operates his own website. redbrad0 is a full time employee at a company, over that he is the owner of eznetideas, operates the servers and manages them so he has close to 0 time to even pay attention to this site anymore and I am overbooked with work and school so I am incapable of doing anything. The Impact has gone his way, gargoyle fell off the face of the earth. Also, these devs have worked for free and pay, but since time is valuable to them right now, free isn't an option nor pay because we don't have the resources for it.
Is that reason enough, time time time!

Real, I know exactly what you are saying and believe me I can really appreciate what you are saying, and I agree completely with the mastering of the editor stuff ... as I have not even begun. Yet, we have people who can rate something a 5 and say, "It just needs more work and there is pumping and stuff" and somehow this rate could possibly stand.

Seriously, besides making a moron out of themselves (which happens more than often as they show their own incompetance and stupidity), those kind of rates ought to not be allowed, period. They serve no value, and more importantly offer NOTHING to the designer in light of help or constructive criticism. I was merely offering a suggestion is all ... something to help alleviate the pain that designers here go through time and time again.

Again, your words ring truer with me than you realize, and I for one appreciate the time you took to respond.

WWS ... I know man as we have talked more than once about this ... time is a crucial thing and outsourcing is really not economically feasible and I realize that ... yet, comments without rates does make perfect sense to me! I know you have seen that elsewhere, and I think it provides an outlet to comment to the designer and not be tied to a "must give a score" to a track that might be clearly designated as a "beta" test. Good idea!

[GRIM.657]

Originally posted by TConwell

*cut*
WWS ... I know man as we have talked more than once about this ... time is a crucial thing and outsourcing is really not economically feasible and I realize that ... yet, comments without rates does make perfect sense to me! I know you have seen that elsewhere, and I think it provides an outlet to comment to the designer and not be tied to a "must give a score" to a track that might be clearly designated as a "beta" test. Good idea!

it has already been said that you think it is a good idea, and he already said that he'd do it once he gets some time, and funding... whats the point of asking agin?


and i the rate by j61264 is a ok one, he said it was ok, and gave it a 5, 5=AVARAGE, and the word OK means AVARAGEISH.

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Hell, *I'll* do it for you.

Originally posted by GRIM

Originally posted by TConwell

*cut*
WWS ... I know man as we have talked more than once about this ... time is a crucial thing and outsourcing is really not economically feasible and I realize that ... yet, comments without rates does make perfect sense to me! I know you have seen that elsewhere, and I think it provides an outlet to comment to the designer and not be tied to a "must give a score" to a track that might be clearly designated as a "beta" test. Good idea!

it has already been said that you think it is a good idea, and he already said that he'd do it once he gets some time, and funding... whats the point of asking agin?

and i the rate by j61264 is a ok one, he said it was ok, and gave it a 5, 5=AVARAGE, and the word OK means AVARAGEISH.

Remember that comment about showing stupidity? Who asked anything? No one, I was agreeing with it. Try reading a little GRIM and you might not show so much ignorance. Also, on the rate, I could care less about the rate or the ride and that has been said more than once ... again, try reading what was said and you might seem so ignorant to those actually paying attention. And uh, a little spell check application goes a long way, too.

And before you go hitting reply, don't bother ... just accept you got spanked and let it go. Sheesh ...

TCon, when you speak of these "average" ratings which tell nothing more than a "Needs more work, less pumping, etc" If thats all it says, IMO wether or not you make tracks or not, thats unacceptable.

If you are going to give that information, you should be able to give a tip as to how to fix it. Thats when "using NL" comes in handy. But, those people that do not use the editor and ride, they should be basing their rating more on the feel, the look and the flow of the ride.

If its got a sharp turn, bad banking or something simple like that, I think they should be allowed to say so. But only if the REST of their rating has enough substance to it. I do understand, trust me, ive gotten way to many ratings of "Great ride! Perfect!" and its a 9...well perfect is a 10, so where was it flawed?


I dont think theres a set reason why people rate that way or a set way to fix it, you just need moderation, moderation, moderation.

Originally posted by TConwell

Oh yeah .. you wanna really make a difference? How about you cannot rate unless you have uploaded at least three tracks yourself? This way those raters have to at least prove SOME sort of competence in order to judge other tracks. And posting just some junk track (like a circle track for example) ought to be scrutinized or deleted for wasting bandwidth. Hey, I'll volunteer to police that area! LOL

Thanks WWS ... appreciate ya.

And even if people know the game, not everyone has time to uppload lots of tracks. I have played RCT2 since the release, but I only have 2 upploads, since I haven't managed to finish anything more. I still think I'm qualified to rate. I know it's old, but I just had to reply[;)]

[GRIM.657]

Originally posted by TConwell

Originally posted by GRIM

Originally posted by TConwell

*cut*
WWS ... I know man as we have talked more than once about this ... time is a crucial thing and outsourcing is really not economically feasible and I realize that ... yet, comments without rates does make perfect sense to me! I know you have seen that elsewhere, and I think it provides an outlet to comment to the designer and not be tied to a "must give a score" to a track that might be clearly designated as a "beta" test. Good idea!

it has already been said that you think it is a good idea, and he already said that he'd do it once he gets some time, and funding... whats the point of asking agin?

and i the rate by j61264 is a ok one, he said it was ok, and gave it a 5, 5=AVARAGE, and the word OK means AVARAGEISH.

Remember that comment about showing stupidity? Who asked anything? No one, I was agreeing with it. Try reading a little GRIM and you might not show so much ignorance. Also, on the rate, I could care less about the rate or the ride and that has been said more than once ... again, try reading what was said and you might seem so ignorant to those actually paying attention. And uh, a little spell check application goes a long way, too.

And before you go hitting reply, don't bother ... just accept you got spanked and let it go. Sheesh ...

um, you said "you think it is time to explain to people HOW to rate and why a one liner cannot account for 5 missing points" i answered that. im sorry if you ment somthing other tham what you posted, and if you really dont care, why did you start this topic?

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[Oscar]

Originally posted by Tyler

Hell, *I'll* do it for you.

We're talking asp, not php here and as much as I would like to get it done ASAP, I would like to have one of my *regulars* do it so to keep the uniformity and the security in the coding as is now.

Originally posted by Real

TCon, when you speak of these "average" ratings which tell nothing more than a "Needs more work, less pumping, etc" If thats all it says, IMO wether or not you make tracks or not, thats unacceptable.

If you are going to give that information, you should be able to give a tip as to how to fix it. Thats when "using NL" comes in handy. But, those people that do not use the editor and ride, they should be basing their rating more on the feel, the look and the flow of the ride.

If its got a sharp turn, bad banking or something simple like that, I think they should be allowed to say so. But only if the REST of their rating has enough substance to it. I do understand, trust me, ive gotten way to many ratings of "Great ride! Perfect!" and its a 9...well perfect is a 10, so where was it flawed?


I dont think theres a set reason why people rate that way or a set way to fix it, you just need moderation, moderation, moderation.

And these things were really what I was getting at ... thanks for amply explaining it for me.

I've coded in a vast variety of different languages, PHP, Perl, Python, Java, C, C++, C#, Lisp, etc. Get the idea? A new language is nothing to me.

[Oscar]

and as I said, " I would like to have one of my *regulars* do it", get the idea?

He dosent want to risk the security of the site to someone whos learning a new language, anyways i dont agree with having a comment wothout a rate, i have seen it on other sites and it can be quite annoying when people get on eachothers nerves and end up arguing with eachother. Because some people do not agree with other peoples rates there is just mostly going to be conflict. But thats just IMO.

Originally posted by eZe7789

(previous removed) ... anyways i dont agree with having a comment wothout a rate, i have seen it on other sites and it can be quite annoying when people get on eachothers nerves and end up arguing with eachother. Because some people do not agree with other peoples rates there is just mostly going to be conflict. But thats just IMO.

I hear you ... a good moderation team with the ability to make stuff disappear usually corrects those kind of problems ...

[GRIM.657]

yes, and there is a good moderation team here (duh!) but it makes it hard for them to see the other topics in this forum, that actually have a valid complaint, when topics like this one are started and just go on and on and on... (hint hint)

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Feel free to lock this one guys, thanks. [:o)]